A Few Questions

[FTL]

Hi,

I was wondering if I could get some advice with my fish.

Firstly, My Nitrate and Nitrite levels are a bit high:

Nitrate: Just less than 10mg/l
Nitrite: just less than 0.5mg/l

PH: ~7.2
KH: 180mg/l
GH: 125mg/l
Ammonia: 0

I'm doing a 25% water change today as my water is still a little on the blue side after putting in too much de-chlorinator before I cycled it (fishless) The water tested fine when I put the fish in. I also just got 3 of the fish on Saturday as my birthday pressie. Will the water change help solve the Nitate/Nitrite problem? It's very Soft down here (Hence the GH normally being between 125 and 250).

Also, My female Mollies look like they're changing between pregnant and not pregnant. Last night my Dalmatian and White Mollies looked nice and stream-lined, and when I saw my black Molly she had a definite squared off look, but when I looked this morning it was the other way round. Any ideas? The Black Molly is normally 'floating' by the heater.

I also have a Betta in there, I feed all four twice a day, normally with flakes and every two to three day with Blood Worms. I was reading on the Betta forums that this would be too much for him, and also to feed him a Pea every now and then to help the GI tract, and to not feed for a day every now and then as well, but how would I do this with the Mollies in the same tank?

Ah, one other question, sorry! I got the Mollies from one shop and my Betta from a different shop, would it be worth using something that would de-worm/similar?

Sorry for so many questions, and thanks for reading!

 

[Tizer]

dechlorinator shouldnt discolour the water, unless you are using some odd one i've not seen before.

how big is the tank and what filter are you using? if you have nitrite in the water, you filter hasnt been cycled correctly. How did you cycle it exactly?

 

[the_lock_man]

Agree with Tizer.

When you say you fishless-cycled the filter, did you use an ammonia source? Or did you do what the LFS often advise, and just switch the filter on for a few days?

 

[FTL]

I have to admit, I did what the Pet-shop recommended and just switched it on with some bacter-life and ran it for about 2 weeks (as I was away), but it measured 0 for both Nitrate and Nitrite before I put the fish in on Sat (I tested before-hand), I also did a 50% water change at that time.

It's blue from the De-chlorinator I got, which is blue in colour. I got a little carried away with it and put too much in as I went to the wrong line on the bottle, it was very blue to start with, but after I'd done a few water changes (as I'd also managed to not wash the gravel properly and wanted to get that cleaned out) it has lightened to only being a very light tint. The brand I have is TetraAqua AquaSafe.

My tank is 25L

Thanks

 

[Tizer]

sounds like you need to spend an hour doing some reading in the beginners section which is linked in my signature, all the answers to your questions will be in there but if there is anything you need to ask, fire away. you need to read up on cycling, since what you have been told to do is utter tosh. You will be in a fish in cycle now until the filter is cycled, which means daily water testing and water changes.

Ammonia and Nitrite at the key ones you need to focus on, ignore nitrate, because with daily water changes, it will soon become the same as your tap water.

 

[the_lock_man]

It would have tested 0 for nitrite, because there's been no ammonia in the water to be converted into nitrite. There is a great weight of opinion on this forum that reckons the filter-start products do very little to help - certainly even if there are live bacteria in the bottle, there's no ammonia source over the two weeks to keep them alive anyway.

At the top of this section of the forum is a link to the Beginners Resource Centre. In there, there is an article called "Fish In Cycling" - you need to read it now. Also of help will be the section of the Nitrogen Cycle, which will give you the background info on why you need to be doing water changes.

After you've read those articles, you need to do a big water change - something like 75%. About half an hour after that, test again. If your ammonia or nitrite is at or above 0.25mg/l (AKA ppm), do another change. Remember to use dechlorinated water, and to get the temperature roughly the same as that which you've removed.

You now need to be testing your water twice a day - when you see ammonia or nitrite getting near that 0.25mg/l (or greater than that), do a water change. You have to keep those poisons as close to 0 as you can at all times.

I must say I'm quite surprised that you're showing 0 ammonia. What sort of test kit are you using?

You don't need to worry about nitrate. 10mg/l is not high, and nitrate is not dangerous to fish until you get in the 100s mg/l. With the amount of water changes that you will be doing over the next couple of months, nitrate won't get high.

As time goes on, you'll find that you'll be doing less and less water changes, because the filter will be coping with the ammonia produced by the fish. When you can go for a week without doing a water change, you can consider your filter to be cycled. From thereon, water changes should be 30% or more weekly (others would recommend more).

EDIT: Just seen your edit about tank size. In a way that's good news, because large water changes won't be that onerous. BUT, and it's a big but, that is way, way, way too small for 3 mollies and a betta. It's just about big enough for a single betta. I'm left wondering if your filter has enough capacity for those fish, ever. I wouldn't suggest even a single molly in a 25l.

I strongly recommend that you take all the fish back to the shop, and then properly fish-less cycle the filter, and then you can think about an appopriate stocking for a 25l tank.

If you're unwilling to do this, then please return the mollies, but continue with my & Tizer's advice for a fish-in cycle.

 

[Tizer]

25 litres? ouch, deffinately look to return all the other fish appart from the Betta, its simply too small for them.

 

[FTL]

I had 3 Mollies in the tank with a reading of 0 for Nitrite and Ammonia, I took two back as I had ended up with 2 males and 1 female, and then added the 2 females and the Betta with a water change and a few new plants.

I'm using test strips, with the Ammonia on a separate strip to the others. I'm going to get a liquid one though, I only saw the strips when I looked, which is why I have them, but I'll check again.

 

[the_lock_man]

I had 3 Mollies in the tank with a reading of 0 for Nitrite and Ammonia, I took two back as I had ended up with 2 males and 1 female, and then added the 2 females and the Betta with a water change and a few new plants.

I'm using test strips, with the Ammonia on a separate strip to the others. I'm going to get a liquid one though, I only saw the strips when I looked, which is why I have them, but I'll check again.

Test strips are notoriously inaccurate, and I think it's likely you have ammonia as well.

An oft-quoted, though flawed, rule of thumb on stocking is 1" of fish per gallon. Your tank is about 5½ish gallons. Each molly is about 3", and the betta adds another 3", so 12" of fish - so over double the amount recommended by the "rule". As I said, the rule is flawed, but it does indicate that your tank has seriously too many fish.

 

[FTL]

Ahh. I must have read the info leaflet wrong (Dylexia means I read things in the wrong places) I'll take the Mollys back today, and do the fish-in cycling with the Betta.

Thanks for the help.

 

[the_lock_man]

No probs.

The other thing I should have said as well, is that since you have a small tank, the toxins can build up pretty quickly, relative to the same bioload in a larger tank.

If you're doing twice daily water changes, and when you come to test, you're finding significant ammonia and/or nitrite levels (say 0.75ppm or above), then you really need to be doing changes 3 times daily.

You need to get that liquid test kit as soon as you can.

 

[FTL]

I got one when I took the Mollies back, done the first tests on the old tank water, doing a large water replace now (well part of one... my bucket is only 10L...

Amonia came out as 1mg/l
Nitrite came out as 2mg/l
Nitrate came out as 0.5mg/l
PH came out as just under 8

That is a whopping difference to the strips. I believed there was a different, didn't think it would be so huge though.

Then I'll do the smaller changes tonight and onwards.

 

[HayzH]

I got one when I took the Mollies back, done the first tests on the old tank water, doing a large water replace now (well part of one... my bucket is only 10L...

Amonia came out as 1mg/l
Nitrite came out as 2mg/l
Nitrate came out as 0.5mg/l
PH came out as just under 8

That is a whopping difference to the strips. I believed there was a different, didn't think it would be so huge though.

Then I'll do the smaller changes tonight and onwards.

i know..amazing huh...i got them when i started up...they were all measuring fine on the strip....but then i got the water tested after the 3rd mollie died and the results were not good. i feel so guilty ..i killed them! glad you got yours back to the LFS in time x

 

[the_lock_man]

I got one when I took the Mollies back, done the first tests on the old tank water, doing a large water replace now (well part of one... my bucket is only 10L...

Amonia came out as 1mg/l
Nitrite came out as 2mg/l
Nitrate came out as 0.5mg/l
PH came out as just under 8

That is a whopping difference to the strips. I believed there was a different, didn't think it would be so huge though.

Then I'll do the smaller changes tonight and onwards.

Like I said, the toxins build up quick in a small tank.

That nitrite level is seriously bad, and ammonia not far behind. Take out as much tank water as you can, leaving just enough for the betta to swim upright in. Refill, and try to get the temperature as close as you can to the old water. Leave it half an hour and test again. If the ammonia or nitrite levels are still over 0.25mg/l, do another change - the amount you need to do will depend upon what the levels say.

Maths will tell you - if you have 2mg/l and change out 50% of the water, you will change out 50% of the nitrite -ie. 1mg/l - still way too much. If you change out 90% of the water, you should get down to 0.2mg/l. That's lower than the pragmatic safe limit of 0.25mg/l. But those levels will raise again quickly.

The good news is that you have moved 75% of your problem out of the tank - the mollies. With only the betta left, levels should be more manageable.

 

[FTL]

I did about 75 to 80% change, and will test again before I have to go out, and will change again when I get back. Because I like doing tests like these I tested with the fresh change, and it had already dropped a bit, so shall cross my fingers.