1x Puffer, 2x Keyhole Cichlids, 1x Pleco

[pandacichlid]

the cichlid comment makes me laugh!

HAHA!! now that made me laugh!

Almost all of your posts made me laugh

"The size makes it a dwarf"

Wrong! the dwarf puffer is a species. That like saying a baby lion is a domectic cat, because its small.

"From one of the best breeders"

Right. Does he happen to live in the river where the puffers come from?

Haha, you "mate" are a joke.

the size is small for a puffer, yes
that's another opinion you have, I was saying it was a small puffer, ok?
maximus has sent the g's on me haha.
are you a man or a woman, check ya picture love. you are now the joke hahahaha!!!

 

[Esfa]

Haha, yes. Because i would do what a stranger on a fish forum tells me too.

And you made no sonce with that comment, Im more of a man then you. You''ll be laughing on the other side of your face in a minute.

"the size is small for a puffer, yes"

yes, it is a small puffer, but how does that change the species? Please say it slowly, i dont fully understand moronish.

 

[pandacichlid]

Haha, yes. Because i would do what a stranger on a fish forum tells me too.

And you made no sonce with that comment, Im more of a man then you. You''ll be laughing on the other side of your face in a minute.

"the size is small for a puffer, yes"

yes, it is a small puffer, but how does that change the species? Please say it slowly, i dont fully understand moronish.

sonce? you spanish or something. it's ok enrique you can tell me?
yeah now that comment made me laugh more man, but come on the cichlid comment cudn't even be justified

thanks to the people that have given me GOOD advise, it's well appreciated
did I say it was a different species, no. You metioned that rubbish haha now who is moronic that they can't read?

 

[Esfa]

Oooh, look. He can take the piss for a typo. Look who;s a big boy.

And yes, a DWARF puffer is a different species to what you have, and at first you stated that you had a dwarf puffer.

And Maximus has given you good information. The diet you have your puffer on is not acceptable.

 

[pandacichlid]

.

 

[kym_sharpe_3]

Why the hell are people making negative comments about this? I thought this forum was for help and ideas not for slating people, the person who Pandacichlid gets his fish and information from is a very highly recommend person, this topic was for helpful criticism not for slating people and ganging up. how pathetic has this become? i expected more from people on this website. And if people looked at the link which was sent from pandacichlid about his puffer they would see which puffer it was. dwarf is just a way of describing something. look at it this way, if somebody who is a dwarf human being does that mean that they are a different species than " average" sized people.. NO so why are people going on about this one word which was said in a different context? just because he said it was a dwarf? if you was being polite and reading correctly then you would see the word was being used for "small" so if you lot don't have any helpful advice don't go running your mouth, its just sad. this website was set up for help and advice not "i know best so this is how it is and if you don't like it then i will say your ways are crap" some people on here like usual have given good helpful advice, they know who they are the rest of you should be ashamed of how you treat people who just want information of things.

thats all im saying. stop assuming its bad!

 

[julesee]

It is really sad that you take 100% correct advice as an insult. He's not trying to prove he's smarter than you, he's just telling you what you need to know. No, the SAPs were not bred in captivity. Also, you are taking a huge risk keeping puffers with other fish. You may know how to take care of your community fish, and your cichlids, but pufferfish need very specific care.

Please calm your ADHD

 

[Myaj]

Long story short here.

South American Puffers are one of the few freshwater species that can sometimes get along with tankmates. I've kept them with kribs, endlers, corydoras, dwarf puffers (yes, the species), rainbowfish, etc. I know the Shedd Aquarium keeps them with a species of catfish, at least they did last time I was there. I have never seen my particular SAP's pick on any tank mates, or stand up to tankmates that were picking on them.. that's not to guarentee yours won't be aggressive.

That said, you never know with puffers what their temperment is going to be. Once they hit sexual maturity, any species of fish can change temperments and become very aggressive or territorial. My one worry is since all the fish are just babies now, once those cichlids become mature and begin mating, they might begin to beat the crap out of the puffer. I had to remove my SAP's from the krib tank for that reason, the pair of kribs were starting to get too defensive of their area. Make sure you always have some spare 15+ gallon tank for this puffer, in case it ever needs to be moved.

But by far the biggest worry is that you understand the dental needs of this species. I fed mine a daily diet of snails, plus they had live red cherry shrimp to hunt down at all times (very heavily planted tank) and I still had to trim teeth every 3 months or so. Their teeth grow very fast, and if you don't prepare yourself and trim them before they get too long its very easy for their teeth to grow through the roof of their mouth and they'll starve to death. Many people buy these fish then are too scared to do the dental work and they end up dying, so make sure you are ready to do it, because you will have to do it eventually, no matter how much hard shelled food you feed. That's not to say you can avoid feeding them hard shelled foods, because you can't. Puffers are notoriously delicate fish that need proper diet, stress free conditions and extremely high water quality.

And this species has definately NOT been bred in captivity, they are all wild caught. Which means you should also be concerned with internal parasites not only in the puffers but in any fish they've had contact with or that you've used the same equipment on their tanks. Wild caught fish can really bring in some nasties that our domestically bred fish have never been exposed to and don't have any immunity to.

I am still interested in the size of your tank though (4ft can be anything from a 30 gallon to a 120). South American puffers are very neurotic and hyperactive, and do enjoy being in groups of their own kind, they seem to find it reassuring. If all you have is a bristlenose pleco (which will reach 6-8"), a pair of keyhole cichlids and the SAP, you might have room for more SAP's, but then again, you might not. If you figure you should allow 20-30 gallons for the pair of keyholes, another 15 or so for the bristlenose and another 15 for the SAP.. then if you have leftover room you could probably add another SAP for every 10 gallons left over... Mind you, that sounds pretty understocked but with puffers you HAVE to understock, they just can't handle elevated nitrates at all. Its just one of those things about puffers, I can't stress enough how sensitive they are. Maybe someday if we manage to breed them in captivity so they don't have the stresses of capture, transport, more transport, bad conditions in the store, all the diseases and parasites, etc... but for now they are pretty delicate.

 

[Puffergirl]

Hi Panda,

A few comments as someone who has kept both ciclids and amazon (South American) puffers for years.

I understand that you have been given and found information from people you know at the lfs and the internet but if you want advice from someone who keeps both these fish then feel free.

I think you caused some confusion by refering to these puffers as 'dwarf', I know you only meant that they are small in comparison to other puffers but a 'dwarf puffer' is a species of puffer, like lion is a species of cat etc. Now I think everyone knows that you are talking about SAPs or Amazon puffers so that argument can end.

These little puffers are definitely shoaling, they live in large groups in the wild not solitary like larger marine puffers for example, so the more you can fit into your tank (taking into consideration the space they require - refer to Myaj post) the better really.

They are one of the most docile and friendly of puffers however they are not strictly 'community'. When they are young...as yours are now...they will cohabit well with many types of fish. But be warned when they mature as adults they will stalk and kill most other tank mates (up to a few times their own size believe me!).

You really do need to learn how to trim their teeth. Every 3-6 months you will need to sedate your puffers and manually trim their teeth. I use nail clippers. They also need to be fed ONLY crunchy food eg snails otherwise they will need to be trimmed more often.

I know you trust your lfs and at the moment everything is fine but these fish will kill your ciclids when they mature (if they live that long). No questions. I know it is not what you want to hear but don't ask advice if you then refuse to believe what you are told. Sorry. The fact that the lfs have already lied to you telling you they have got them from a breeder when these fish have NEVER been bred in captivity and all SAPs in this country are imported would give me enough reason to doubt any other advice they have.

 

[pandacichlid]

This is to all you people that have taken the time to reply on this forum.my lfs in nottingham didn't tell me he had gotten them from a breeder, he didn't say I assumed that as he only deals with this breeder in getting bred fish in capativity. I didn't know they had not been bred in capativity, but other fish haven't too. They are probably imports but I have not asked him personally.He has told me people have probably taken the word cichlid and puffer out of context and perhaps thougt/think different species other cichlid or puffer.this week I will have four amazon puffers all together in a social group. I have two already and those two get along fine and even swim and interact with my keyholes I will have to do more research and read up on who these amazon's will be when mature. However, how can you guys be saying I'm acting unfair to certain people when the certain people tell me my keyhole cichlids will eat my amazons or vice versa? Maybe when mature, but I will read it up. Intricate information was missing from certain people on this topic; even by myself yes.I am prepeared for dental treatment and my food is adequate for them, snails, bloodworm, krill, frozen muscles and lots of shells for them to bite onmy girlfriends had her tank for over a year now and didn't know anything about fish until we went to this store in sherwood, so no he wasn't wrong with his information and sed the wrong information. I will get photographs of my puffers and show you guys how my tank is, it's like you think that I'm not even looking after them. I am new to this hobby, but I can assure you all that I am looking after these fish properlyI choose not to seek advice from forums anymore as I had the advice about my fish already from different sources
at least new people have joined from this 'debate'

 

[Myaj]

Well, one last comment from me.

A lot of the confusion here is just from the way you are talking and typing. For example: "so no he wasn't wrong with his information and sed the wrong information." So in the same sentence you say the local store guy was not wrong but he said(?) the wrong information? Its very hard to keep track of your posts and what is going on.

All people are trying to do is help you out with the puffers, by sharing their experience. I never kept SAP's into full maturity due to health issues of my specimens, so I can really only advise on them while still under 2-3". If Puffergirl has seen full grown ones turn into little beasts, I'd believe her.

Either way, best thing you can do is make sure the water quality stays up (you never did say what size tank it is), have a spare tank ready at all times if the puffers or cichlids need to be moved, and keep an eye on things.

 

[pandacichlid]

Well, one last comment from me.

A lot of the confusion here is just from the way you are talking and typing. For example: "so no he wasn't wrong with his information and sed the wrong information." So in the same sentence you say the local store guy was not wrong but he said(?) the wrong information? Its very hard to keep track of your posts and what is going on.

All people are trying to do is help you out with the puffers, by sharing their experience. I never kept SAP's into full maturity due to health issues of my specimens, so I can really only advise on them while still under 2-3". If Puffergirl has seen full grown ones turn into little beasts, I'd believe her.

Either way, best thing you can do is make sure the water quality stays up (you never did say what size tank it is), have a spare tank ready at all times if the puffers or cichlids need to be moved, and keep an eye on things.

I informed you incorrect information, the owner of the fish store didn't say they were bred in captivity; happy now?
it's turning into an English lesson now too

I have told the size on the tank lots of times, so read it that's not hard to keep track of, is it? 4 feeeeet!!!!!!!

I have sed that my tank is fully cycled numerous times, yet agen people would keep track if they read it properly?
ammonia 0 and nitrites 0

I have read up on them and they are the only puffers with this kind nature and community capability, however I take into consideration what that person has told me and I'll read up like I have sed.

my food isn't wrong by the way to you people that have informed me on the puffer's food diet. Freeze dried krill, blood worm, plenty of snails daily, frozen muscles and shells to bite on.

g'day

 

[severum boy]

I have told the size on the tank lots of times, so read it that's not hard to keep track of, is it? 4 feeeeet!!!!!!!

I have sed that my tank is fully cycled numerous times, yet agen people would keep track if they read it properly?
ammonia 0 and nitrites 0

I have read up on them and they are the only puffers with this kind nature and community capability, however I take into consideration what that person has told me and I'll read up like I have sed.

my food isn't wrong by the way to you people that have informed me on the puffer's food diet. Freeze dried krill, blood worm, plenty of snails daily, frozen muscles and shells to bite on.

Myaj just said "4ft can be anything from a 30 gallon to a 120". We know the tank is 4ft long, we want to know how many gallons it is and what the dimentions are.
Fully cycled also does not mean that the water conditions are perfect, it just means that bacteria have been allowed to build up in the filter and gravel and are reducing the ammo and nitrites to zero. When they hit zero, the tank is fully cycled. Just because your tank has been fully cycled does not mean the results will be perfect. I assume your tank was cycled a few days ago (please correct me if i am wrong).
Keyhole cichlids and especially plecs are not good tankmates for them, even though SAPs are ok in some communities. Plecs are slow moving, and often do not move. SAPs are very inquisitive and will bite things just to see if they are food. When they get bigger they will be able to bite through the plec's armour. Keyholes are slow moving and have no defence against the puffers. If your pufers are not in groups they will be more boared than they should be, and will look for entertainment by biting the keyholes.

 

[Tommo]

May I just add that the personalities of puffers vary strongly from fish to fish, so you may have been lucky and got a peacefull individual, or the puffer may become super aggressive when it settles into its tank.

Yes, they can be kept with other fish and it is done by some people, but you must understand and accept that you are taking an enormous risk.

 

[DarkEntity]

Indeed, hopefully though with Puffergirl and Myaj chipping more relevant and correct info he/she will take note and try to do the best for the fish.