HELP ME PLEASE

poseidone · Mar 16, 2021

Hi All,
I am a Italian and i am sorry for grammatical horrors...I am a newbie and I do have a 200 litres tank...and every time I got a challenge...i had snails (sorted )...i had seed shrimps aka ostracod ( sorted problem and on this i am actually become quiet good

)...but now i got a big problem which i can't figure it out on my own...well are fews...but lets start with the one which i am feel guilty as i am unable to sort it out...is affecting the whole tank...as i saw nearly the all species ( 4 Bettas, 2 Corydoras, 2 Guppies,4 Tetras all being affected...but the most are Platies which i will upload some pics...with exclusion of 4 Dwarf chain loaches and 2 Borneo suckers ( the last 2 so far never seen them do it ).
My poor Platies ( are 5 in total, 2 Adults and 3 little cuties which they born in my previous 64 lt tank ) are often "scratching" on whatever they got nearby...the adults one of them is still scratching but without abrasions the other one scratching and with abrasions. From time to time those abrasions are in different parts of the body. They start with a sort of discoloured tissue and then like from night time to the day time they become like serious injuries in white colour like part of the skin is fallen off and right now i saw that even one of the little cuties got 2 of those kind of stains on the body. I noticed also that the consistency of the poo has changed in white colour and stringy for the little ones ...while for the adults is alternating from normal to stringy white.
I took back to the shop a male Molly 4-5 weeks ago as he was visibly a bully and i thought that was the main cause ( stress for the others ).
i did use Interpet anti fungus and internal bacteria...last month... i do regular water changings and all water parameters are fine ( ammonia 0 , nitrite 0 etc. etc.
5 days ago all fishes they was gasping on the surface with exclusions of Bettas and Corydoras and because those "scratchings" i thought that was Ich, so i start to use Api white spot cure which in 5 minutes seems to work as the fishes they start to swim normally but now after 5 days they are still "scratching " and one of the Platies got this big white sort of ulcer on his body. Can be anchor worm? I am desperate and i don't like at all to use all those chemicals to be honest .
Please help me
Regards Alessio

UnknownFishies · Mar 16, 2021

do some water changes and give them fresh clean water. 4 bettas together is not a great idea especially if they are male. @Colin_T
does the big white thing on the platt disappear and reappear? if so it might be a worm. i’m honestly not good with chemicals but i will try my best to see which ones are good. hopefully Colin replies and we can have solution.

mrsjoannh13 · Mar 16, 2021

It looks like maybe velvet or a fungal infection. How is your water quality? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels. What is the tank temperature and can you tell us about your water change routine? How much water do you change and how often? Do you clean the gravel or sand in the process?

poseidone · Mar 16, 2021

right...one Male betta and 3 Females... which according to " rules" are fine...as i said water parameters are fine in my previous message...water temperature i use to keep at 26 celsius as i do have Borneo Suckers which they don't like very warm water so right temperature considering the other species is around 26-27 celsius...but i was reading that if it is Ich, 30 celsius speed up the cycle...so...slowly slowly i adjusted to 30 from the past 2 days...
Yes the white injuries are coming and going...
about water changings...between 20 - 25% once a week...except for this week which after 96 hours i did change again 25% without carbon in the filter as I am using Api white spot cure following their instructions...gravel and sand as i got both are always cleaned while i do the water changings with a syphon. If it was fungal infection i used interpet product which i mentioned before in the other message. Velvet? I thought after reading about anchor worm...as the main symptoms is those "scratching". I don't know if velvet cause the same issue.
thank you so much in the meantime

UnknownFishies · Mar 16, 2021

poseidone said:
right...one Male betta and 3 Females... which according to " rules" are fine...as i said water parameters are fine in my previous message...water temperature i use to keep at 26 celsius as i do have Borneo Suckers which they don't like very warm water so right temperature considering the other species is around 26-27 celsius...but i was reading that if it is Ich, 30 celsius speed up the cycle...so...slowly slowly i adjusted to 30 from the past 2 days...
Yes the white injuries are coming and going...
about water changings...between 20 - 25% once a week...except for this week which after 96 hours i did change again 25% without carbon in the filter as I am using Api white spot cure following their instructions...gravel and sand as i got both are always cleaned while i do the water changings with a syphon. If it was fungal infection i used interpet product which i mentioned before in the other message. Velvet? I thought after reading about anchor worm...as the main symptoms is those "scratching". I don't know if velvet cause the same issue.
thank you so much in the meantime

yeah idk much about infections or injuries. for the meantime just keep doing what your doing is my advice

Colin_T · Mar 16, 2021

Velvet causes fish to develop a yellow/ gold sheen over their body. It is easy to see at night if you shine a torch (flashlight) on the fish after the tank lights have gone out. This is not velvet.

White spot makes the fish look like they have been sprinkled with salt. There is no white spot visible on the fish.

There is a couple of patches of fungus or excess mucous on the fish.

---------------------
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt, (see directions below).

---------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

---------------------
If the fish are still rubbing on objects, monitor them for small white dots or a gold sheen and post more pictures of the entire fish.

poseidone · Mar 19, 2021

Colin_T said:
Velvet causes fish to develop a yellow/ gold sheen over their body. It is easy to see at night if you shine a torch (flashlight) on the fish after the tank lights have gone out. This is not velvet.

White spot makes the fish look like they have been sprinkled with salt. There is no white spot visible on the fish.

There is a couple of patches of fungus or excess mucous on the fish.

---------------------
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt, (see directions below).

---------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

---------------------
If the fish are still rubbing on objects, monitor them for small white dots or a gold sheen and post more pictures of the entire fish.

thank you very much for your reply Mr Colin, i am confused on one part...well fews

....if i do water change 75% every day for a week the following week i start to do salt treatment...or is salt treatment instead of the 75% method? Also as i do have 200 lt tank with 4 tetras, 2 corydoras, 4 bettas (3 female 1 male ), 4 dwarf chain loaches , 2 borneo suckers, 5 platies and 2 guppies is 10 heaped tablespoon of salt correct? Then from the very next day for 2 weeks i do need to change water, first week 10% second week 20% of water correct?
Kind Regards
Alessio

EllRog · Mar 19, 2021

anyone wanna talk about the stocking of the tank because I don't know where to start

poseidone · Mar 19, 2021

EllRog said:
anyone wanna talk about the stocking of the tank because I don't know where to start

my tank? if i did something wrong please tell me...as it's my very first aquarium

UnknownFishies · Mar 19, 2021

poseidone said:
my tank? if i did something wrong please tell me...as it's my very first aquarium

don’t think you did anything wrong.

AdoraBelle Dearheart · Mar 19, 2021

poseidone said:
my tank? if i did something wrong please tell me...as it's my very first aquarium

A lot of your fish are not compatible I'm afraid. You've got a "pick 'n mix", just buying a few of each kind of fish you like in the store, without consideration for what each species requires.

Bettas - solitary fish that do NOT play well together. Sometimes betta sororities can be done, but just females, and requires knowledge and experience to balance a sorority well without fighting and stress, and you don't have that knowledge and experience yet. It's very likely that your betta fish are fighting and stressing each other out, they can even become stressed just from sharing the same water and reading each others' chemical signals - without you being aware of it. Females and males should never be housed together, except for when breeding. And even when breeding, only for a brief period, since the male will drive off and even kill the female once he has all the eggs. There's a good reason betta are also called "Fighting Fish". They live alone in the wild, they do not want "friends" in their tank, let alone other bettas.

Borneo suckers need high flow, their whole body shape is designed around them evolving to live in a strong current, a river system. Bettas cannot abide high flow. They're not compatible fish in terms of the home they require.

Platies and guppiies are hard water fish, they need water with a high mineral content, bettas are the opposite.

Tetra need groups of six or more of the same species to be happy. Schooling fish need schools, social fish with a hierarchial social structure like dwarf chain loaches need a group of at least five, ideally more, sociable schooling fish like corydoras need a group of six or more.

Cories need the larger group, and also need a fine sand substrate to filter feed through, so their barbels aren't damaged. Borneo suckers need large rocks to eat algae from.

So I'm afraid there is a great deal wrong with your stocking. Your fish are not compatable in terms of water quality, sexes, species, water movement, substrate, or schooling numbers, or being in the same tank together. I haven't even checked temperatures. To keep all of these fish as they deserve to be kept, you need like, four or more different tanks with different water parameters.

EllRog · Mar 19, 2021

UnknownFishies said:
don’t think you did anything wrong.

"Also as i do have 200 lt tank with 4 tetras, 2 corydoras, 4 bettas (3 female 1 male ), 4 dwarf chain loaches , 2 borneo suckers, 5 platies and 2 guppies"

UnknownFishies · Mar 19, 2021

EllRog said:
"Also as i do have 200 lt tank with 4 tetras, 2 corydoras, 4 bettas (3 female 1 male ), 4 dwarf chain loaches , 2 borneo suckers, 5 platies and 2 guppies"

200 liters is not that big in gallons i’m just now realizing.... yeah. bettas don’t do well in tanks that small. my bad.

EllRog · Mar 19, 2021

UnknownFishies said:
200 liters is not that big in gallons i’m just now realizing.... yeah. bettas don’t do well in tanks that small. my bad.

Having fish with different water requirements mixed together aswell as a male betta living with 3 females. All in such a tiny space, its a massacre waiting to happen

poseidone · Mar 19, 2021

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:
A lot of your fish are not compatible I'm afraid. You've got a "pick 'n mix", just buying a few of each kind of fish you like in the store, without consideration for what each species requires.

Bettas - solitary fish that do NOT play well together. Sometimes betta sororities can be done, but just females, and requires knowledge and experience to balance a sorority well without fighting and stress, and you don't have that knowledge and experience yet. It's very likely that your betta fish are fighting and stressing each other out, they can even become stressed just from sharing the same water and reading each others' chemical signals - without you being aware of it. Females and males should never be housed together, except for when breeding. And even when breeding, only for a brief period, since the male will drive off and even kill the female once he has all the eggs. There's a good reason betta are also called "Fighting Fish". They live alone in the wild, they do not want "friends" in their tank, let alone other bettas.

Borneo suckers need high flow, their whole body shape is designed around them evolving to live in a strong current, a river system. Bettas cannot abide high flow. They're not compatible fish in terms of the home they require.

Platies and guppiies are hard water fish, they need water with a high mineral content, bettas are the opposite.

Tetra need groups of six or more of the same species to be happy. Schooling fish need schools, social fish with a hierarchial social structure like dwarf chain loaches need a group of at least five, ideally more, sociable schooling fish like corydoras need a group of six or more.

Cories need the larger group, and also need a fine sand substrate to filter feed through, so their barbels aren't damaged. Borneo suckers need large rocks to eat algae from.

So I'm afraid there is a great deal wrong with your stocking. Your fish are not compatable in terms of water quality, sexes, species, water movement, substrate, or schooling numbers, or being in the same tank together. I haven't even checked temperatures. To keep all of these fish as they deserve to be kept, you need like, four or more different tanks with different water parameters.

Hi....thank you very much for your message is very interesting...is my very first aquarium with first setup in November and i got many things to learn and to know...i always listen everyone first but then i take my own decisions and the answer from Mr Colin above is the one i was needed...going back to you tetras they was 6 and two of them they had tetra disease so FOR NOW only 4...same for dwarf chain loaches they was 6 but 2 of them the very next day i bought them i found them one in the filter sponge and another one the following day in the middle of a plant...the tank has been set up with 3 different substrates...thats right 3 you reading well...soil, gravel and fine sand...funny enough Coridoras they love soil section...and as soon the problem which I am having in my tank which is actually the main reason of my post and with no offence was even more appreciated than the informations you gave which i do already know...you forgot to say that if Borneo suckers are changing colour is because the water is too hot!!! Slowly slowly i will do some adjustments to your "schools" however i think fishes are like people...they got their own character and you will be surprised when you will see a fighting fish being chased in a very friendly way from a dwarf chain loach or when the male fighting fish is playing all day long with the output of the filter water swimming against the current and then turning quickly and enjoying the way back like a children slide without even considering the presence of 3 beautiful pretty girls from the same species which they play with guppies...and going back to you to keep these fishes as they deserve to be kept there is only one way...the wild...many thanks Master

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