Spotty Tail on Oranda

Hey fish friends! My hobby just expanded to goldfish recently I currently have three in a 50 gal, planted tank.

My oranda gives me some concern. Yesterday, I noticed spots on his tail fins. When I got him about 4 days ago, he had a single spot on his dorsal fin that resolved overnight. I'm having trouble determining if it is ich or fin rot. He also has soft, cottony growths on his wen, which I hear is normal when they are experiencing a growth spurt. However, I'm not committed to writing it off as normal if it might be related to his tail ailment. I never saw these spots manifest on his body. So far they are on his fins only. Please see the attached image.

Today's readings from the API freshwater master testing kit were as follows:
I recently added a larger ranchu goldfish two days ago. She's about the size of a bar of soap lol. I'm wondering if the nitrite and nitrate levels are registering because the BB is catching up to the increased waste load? I've been treating with Seachem Stability and Prime daily until the levels go down. The oranda is in good spirits. Activity level is great and he has a hearty appetite.


Looking forward to your opinions as far as diagnosis and treatment. I know my tank is planted, but if the beast, least stressful treatment is salts, I'll gladly do so.

Thanks!

Joh

I thikk its ich. Salts and garlic work i think. I dont have a phd in fish medicine tho

Looks like ich to me also. Goldfish are the only fish that I treat with ich medication because they don’t do well in high heat.

The white patching on the head is usually poor water quality or low pH.

The two spots on the tail are probably white spot and Deanasue is correct in suggesting chemical medications for goldfish because they struggle with high temperatures, especially if they are kept in cold water.

Malachite Green or Copper will treat white spot.
Copper is safer for you and the fish but will kill any shrimp or snails in the tank.

Malachite Green (aka Victoria Green) is a known carcinogen (causes cancer) and care should be taken when using this product. If you have to use Malachite Green, use a liquid form and avoid the dry powder forms. Don't get it on your skin, in your eyes and definitely don't ingest it. Wash you hands really well with soapy water after using this product.

Thank you so much, all. I have Ich-X on hand and started treating yesterday night as soon as I saw your responses.

Colin_T said:

Malachite Green (aka Victoria Green) is a known carcinogen (causes cancer) and care should be taken when using this product. If you have to use Malachite Green, use a liquid form and avoid the dry powder forms. Don't get it on your skin, in your eyes and definitely don't ingest it. Wash you hands really well with soapy water after using this product.

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I feel bad knowing I'm marinading my fish in formaldehyde and malachite green with Ich-X but it was immediately on hand and wanted to get it nipped in the bud before the oranda starting showing behavioral signs of stress. I also had a dream that it stained my hands and arms and I was freaking out about getting cancer, lol.

Already, this morning, the spots look less defined on my oranda's tail. The fish are still acting happy.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again!

If you want more info about the white spot's lifecycle, check out the following link.

Colin_T said:

If you want more info about the white spot's lifecycle, check out the following link.

What is ICH?

This is a common question that is often asked, what is ich and how is it recognisable and what causes it? The real term is ICHTHYOPHTHIRIASIS. OR commonly known as white spot. It is an extremely comon parasite that affects aquarium fish. It is highly infectious and potentially lethal and...

www.fishforums.net

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Thank you very much, Colin! This is very informative. This website is a great resource overall

Hey all! Since I posted, I saw improvement after the first day of treatment, but on the second day, more spots developed. Since then, the 'spottiness' has neither increased nor decreased. The fish is still acting fine for the most part. He's eating. However, I noticed twice now he's rubbed his side against the tank, or on the bottom gravel. I feel like I should be seeing some improvement by now, given that it's been five days. My other two fish show no symptoms. I've been doing 30% water changes a day and redosing the tank with the full 5ml per 10 gal dosing for the full 50 gallons (is that how it should be done? Or should you dose only for the amount of water you replaced?)

I was thinking of adding erythromycin in case it is bacteria-related or bite the bullet and treat with salts.

What are your thoughts all? Am I just being impatient and should keep treating with ich meds, or should I be looking into other possible ailments?

The ich cannot be killed while it's on the fish. It drops of after 7 daysish I think and THATS when it is killed. You just need to wait a bit longer I think.

Octopink said:

I was thinking of adding erythromycin in case it is bacteria-related or bite the bullet and treat with salts.

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DO NOT ADD ERYTHROMYCIN.
Erythromycin is an anti-biotic that was designed to treat bacterial infections in people. It should only be used on known bacterial infections that have not responded to normal fish medication.

Improper use and mis-use of anti-biotics has lead to drug resistant bacteria that KILL people, animals, birds, fish and reptiles.

White spot is NOT a bacterial infection. White spot is an external protozoan parasite and will not be affected in any way shape or form, if you add anti-biotics.

Anti-biotics have no effect what so ever on fungal, protozoan or viral infections and only work on bacteria. Even then there are gram positive and gram negative bacteria and some anti-biotics treat gram positive, and some treat gram negative.

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Salt does not treat white spot.

Use a white spot medication from the pet shop. Get a product that contains Malachite Green or Copper.

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If you don't want to use chemicals or can't get to a pet shop, you can move the fish into a clean container every day for a couple of weeks and that will get rid of the white spot. For details on this method, see post #16 in the link about What is ICH. It's under the heading Moving Fish.

Thank you for clarification, Colin. The number one enemy for me in this hobby has been impatience. I’ll continue water daily water changes and dosing of my ich med.

I’ll be honest with you, Ich-X did not impress me at all. It’s only half the malachite Green that other ich meds have. Perhaps try another. Maybe Kordon Rid Ich.

I have done this treatment for goldies. Only raise temp to 80F and be patient. This is from Goldfish Keepers.

Follow these steps to cure your goldfish from ich using salt:​

Steps to Cure Goldfish using Salt

1. Gradually raise the temperature to around 80 degrees Fahrenheit, by 1-2 degrees each day. Ensure plenty of aeration as warmer water contains less oxygen. The higher temperatures speed up the life cycle of ich, helping you get rid of it faster.
2. Remove all live plants and snails from the aquarium, if there are any. Salt will damage or kill them.
3. Do a 50% water change before starting treatment to ensure optimal water quality while treating (optional).
4. For most cases, begin by salting to a 0.5% concentration (19 grams per gallon). Add the salt gradually in 5 separate doses at 12 hours apart (3 if the fish are severely infected), then replenish the same concentration with water changes. Dissolve the salt by stirring it in a bucket of water prior to adding it to the tank.
5. Vacuum the bottom of the tank daily to remove fallen ich packets. Be sure the replacement water is salted to .5% as well.
6. In addition to salt, be sure to use Melafix(a natural bacterial infection preventative) or Microbe-Lift Artemiss during treatment. This is because secondary bacterial infections after ich are common and can be extremely dangerous to an already weakened fish. The ich parasite does considerable damage to the tissues and skin of the fish which are at a high risk of infection. Many times the ich is not as lethal as the subsequent bacterial infections.
7. If you must do a water change at some point of the treatment, be sure to replace the exact amount of salt you take out. Continue the treatment for 10-14 days.
   Note: I added 1/2 tablespoon of dissolved aquarium salt for every 5G of tank water. I also raised my temp 2 degrees every few hours. Be sure to watch your fish fir stress but mine did fine.

I would lift the temperature by 4 degrees use a little salt and monitor, It is only 2 or 3 spots.

Kordon Rid Ich

Deanasue said:

I’ll be honest with you, Ich-X did not impress me at all. It’s only half the malachite Green that other ich meds have. Perhaps try another. Maybe Kordon Rid Ich.

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That's so weird, that's not readily available where I am! I have Ich-X and Paragard on hand at the moment. I'm not using them in tandem, I just have them both. Ich-X came recommended by a YouTuber I follow and that's mainly why I chose to use it. Do you have an opinion on Paragard?

Also, I know salt doesn't cure ich, but, from what I understand, it agitates the slime coat, stimulating more growth. Kinda like how we debride damaged tissue manually with a scalpel or other instrument to encourage the growth of new tissue on a human, dog or cat. That's more or less why I was angling toward adding it to my treatment earlier, Colin. I figure it didn't help cure the ich, but might help the fish heal as the parasites dislodge.

Thank you again, Deanasue - I've been struggling with finding a treatment for raising the temp for goldies. I'm glad I have this template to work from to know what parameters I can work with

Here is an update on Brad - I named him Brad because he has 'a big brain.' Note how the ich switched sides and seems lightly more numerous. This all developed since the treatment began.