Help Reading This Ph And Loss Of Fish After Water Changes

 
 
Maybe you should invest in some infra-red security cameras for that shrimp. 
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Actually a jail would be better.  After all that is where criminals go.  A wire mesh cage would isolate him from the fish.   you could take a plastic bottle and drill or punch a number of small holes in the container.  The shrimp would not be able to get out and the fish would be safe. The holes would also allow water exchange with the rest of the tank.  you would of course have to feed him algae wafers. In fact if the shrimp is hungry all the time it would be a good idea to feed him algae wafers.  He is less likely to go after fish if he is full and has no appetite.
 
With hiim isolated you could observe the fish after a water change without fear of the shrimp eating them.   If the fish still die it may not be the shrimps fault.  If the fish survive you might want to consider rehoming the Amano and get cherry shrimp which would probably not harm your fish. I personally have lost fish but I never found the bodies. i do have amano shrimp but I have never seen the shrimp attack my fish.
 
StevenF said:
 
 
 
Maybe you should invest in some infra-red security cameras for that shrimp. 
tongue2.gif
Actually a jail would be better.  After all that is where criminals go.  A wire mesh cage would isolate him from the fish.   you could take a plastic bottle and drill or punch a number of small holes in the container.  The shrimp would not be able to get out and the fish would be safe. The holes would also allow water exchange with the rest of the tank.  you would of course have to feed him algae wafers. In fact if the shrimp is hungry all the time it would be a good idea to feed him algae wafers.  He is less likely to go after fish if he is full and has no appetite.
 
With hiim isolated you could observe the fish after a water change without fear of the shrimp eating them.   If the fish still die it may not be the shrimps fault.  If the fish survive you might want to consider rehoming the Amano and get cherry shrimp which would probably not harm your fish. I personally have lost fish but I never found the bodies. i do have amano shrimp but I have never seen the shrimp attack my fish.
 
 
awww a jail!  haha my poor little shrimp!  good idea to isolate him though as he does seem to go bananas after a water change, he gets the zoomies and bings from one side of the tank to the other repeatedly.  
It would be super tricky to catch him as he's very spastic.  
 
I got him because they eat algae and they really can't multiply in fresh water and I really only wanted one (being that I'm only a 6 gallon tank)  
I know other shrimps can multiply like crazy and to be honest I find them a tad bit creepy...kinda like a cockroach.  
But I've grown to adore my little Amano...even though he might be a murderous little bother.  
 
I'm still hard pressed to believe he's actually catching and killing.  I think he's just an opportunist (a super hungry one) that observes every little thing in the tank and makes his move when he sees a dead or even dying fish (at least I hope that's what's happening).
 
Here's a shot of the little goofball
 

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I don't trust him.
 
Look at those beady little eyes.
I really love your little tank, by the way.
 
 
It would be super tricky to catch him as he's very spastic.  
tie a string to the bottle or cage.  Then put a algae water in it Put it in the tank.  Wait for the shrimp to collect the  morsel.  Then quickly remove it from the tank  by the string.   Then covert opening by a screen or cap Then put the caged shrimp back into the tank.  Note you will probably only get one chance at this.  so practice first.  If you don't succeed the first time the shrimp will probably avoid the trap.  
 
As to your photo it is really good!  And yes that does look like an Amano.
 
 
I got him because they eat algae and they really can't multiply in fresh water and I really only wanted one (being that I'm only a 6 gallon tank) 
I know other shrimps can multiply like crazy and to be honest I find them a tad bit creepy...kinda like a cockroach. 
But I've grown to adore my little Amano...even though he might be a murderous little bother. 
 
One shrimp of any variety will not breed.  So If you buy one and then quarantine it to insure it isn't carrying eggs, it can be added with no risk of excessive breeding.   some shrimp do cross breed but not all.  So if you are careful in your selection you could have one each of several different types in the aquarium.  
 
As to the water.  Is that water company running a lab tests on the water?  If not you might want to ask some of your neighbors.  They may have had one done.  you water parameters are probably the same.  It that or you send out your own sample or buy a test kit for GH and KH  (The tetra 6 in 1 strips will do that).  At this time I am not sure what else we could do.
 
StevenF said:
 
 
It would be super tricky to catch him as he's very spastic.  
tie a string to the bottle or cage.  Then put a algae water in it Put it in the tank.  Wait for the shrimp to collect the  morsel.  Then quickly remove it from the tank  by the string.   Then covert opening by a screen or cap Then put the caged shrimp back into the tank.  Note you will probably only get one chance at this.  so practice first.  If you don't succeed the first time the shrimp will probably avoid the trap.  
Goodness...have you done this before?!?  ha... I will consider and keep you posted.
 
As to your photo it is really good!  And yes that does look like an Amano.
 
Thank you.  These iphones never cease to amaze me with the quality in which they can shoot.
 

 
I got him because they eat algae and they really can't multiply in fresh water and I really only wanted one (being that I'm only a 6 gallon tank) 
I know other shrimps can multiply like crazy and to be honest I find them a tad bit creepy...kinda like a cockroach. 
But I've grown to adore my little Amano...even though he might be a murderous little bother. 
 
One shrimp of any variety will not breed.  So If you buy one and then quarantine it to insure it isn't carrying eggs, it can be added with no risk of excessive breeding.   some shrimp do cross breed but not all.  So if you are careful in your selection you could have one each of several different types in the aquarium.  
 
omg no way!  This is super exciting to me as I definitely find the colorful ones adorable but avoided them because I was afraid that they might be carrying eggs and have a ton of babies!  So, if there is only one and they are carrying and I have it quarantined and can get it into the tank after the eggs are not attached it can't produce more eggs without a mate?  I don't have a quarantine tank.  How long do you think that little process would take until I could safely add one?  Would a jar of some sort be ok with some rocks and plant and wafers?  And do you think my Amano would terrorize it since it's so big?  .....and we're still not sure if he's a murderer.  ha
 
As to the water.  Is that water company running a lab tests on the water?  If not you might want to ask some of your neighbors.  They may have had one done.  you water parameters are probably the same.  It that or you send out your own sample or buy a test kit for GH and KH  (The tetra 6 in 1 strips will do that).  At this time I am not sure what else we could do.
 
The stupid water company (actually a well drilling company that comes out to service) says they don't do the detailed tests like that.  He tested the PH and hardness but that was it.  I am looking into having an actual water company like Culligan come out because they actually offer free water analysis and I'm looking into what kind of paperwork I could get and if it will tell me all the things I need to know.  But I will get myself a gh kh test....I'll get those test strips you suggested.
 
 
Goodness...have you done this before?!?  ha... I will consider and keep you posted.
No I haven't done it.  But given the hungry nature of Amano shrimp, it might.  
 
 
So, if there is only one and they are carrying and I have it quarantined and can get it into the tank after the eggs are not attached it can't produce more eggs without a mate?
 
Note I haven't tried this either.  but that said Asexual reproduction is not very common in animals.  In addition to Amano shrimp, I  have tried Blue Dream shrimp (same family of cherry shrimp.  unfortunately my fish have a tendency to eat them. they are very small.  In my first attempt most died in a couple of weeks.  But one shy one survived for about 4 of 5 months without being eaten.  He  or she did not produce offspring.  I am not saying asexual reproduction won't happen. but it is in my opinion unlikely.
 
The Amano shrimp didn't bother the smaller blue shrimp. Also a one gallon jar may work with a air pump and air stone but feeding would have to be limited.  Smaller tanks are more sensitive to overfeeding and ammonia problems  caused by overfeeding.  However feeding live algae might avoid ammonia due to excess food.  The larger the tank the easier it will be at maintaining a stable environment.
 
.....and we're still not sure if he's a murderer.
True.  We need to provide him an alibi and jailing him might do that.
 
 
The stupid water company (actually a well drilling company that comes out to service) says they don't do the detailed tests like that.  He tested the PH and hardness but that was it.  I am looking into having an actual water company like Culligan come out because they actually offer free water analysis and I'm looking into what kind of paperwork I could get and if it will tell me all the things I need to know. 
From what I have read online Mulligan will do a 10minute test on your tap water which is probably nothing Gh, Kh, and PH.   That wouldn't be that helpful.  However They will also send out a sample for lab testing you need to inquire about what the lab tests for.  Another option would be to contact a water utility in a nearby city and ask them if they could recommend a lab.You could also ask the drilling company for suggestions on getting a lab test.  
 
StevenF said:
 
Goodness...have you done this before?!?  ha... I will consider and keep you posted.
No I haven't done it.  But given the hungry nature of Amano shrimp, it might.  
 
 
So, if there is only one and they are carrying and I have it quarantined and can get it into the tank after the eggs are not attached it can't produce more eggs without a mate?
 
Note I haven't tried this either.  but that said Asexual reproduction is not very common in animals.  In addition to Amano shrimp, I  have tried Blue Dream shrimp (same family of cherry shrimp.  unfortunately my fish have a tendency to eat them. they are very small.  In my first attempt most died in a couple of weeks.  But one shy one survived for about 4 of 5 months without being eaten.  He  or she did not produce offspring.  I am not saying asexual reproduction won't happen. but it is in my opinion unlikely.
 
The Amano shrimp didn't bother the smaller blue shrimp. Also a one gallon jar may work with a air pump and air stone but feeding would have to be limited.  Smaller tanks are more sensitive to overfeeding and ammonia problems  caused by overfeeding.  However feeding live algae might avoid ammonia due to excess food.  The larger the tank the easier it will be at maintaining a stable environment.
 
.....and we're still not sure if he's a murderer.
True.  We need to provide him an alibi and jailing him might do that.
 
 
The stupid water company (actually a well drilling company that comes out to service) says they don't do the detailed tests like that.  He tested the PH and hardness but that was it.  I am looking into having an actual water company like Culligan come out because they actually offer free water analysis and I'm looking into what kind of paperwork I could get and if it will tell me all the things I need to know. 
From what I have read online Mulligan will do a 10minute test on your tap water which is probably nothing Gh, Kh, and PH.   That wouldn't be that helpful.  However They will also send out a sample for lab testing you need to inquire about what the lab tests for.  Another option would be to contact a water utility in a nearby city and ask them if they could recommend a lab.You could also ask the drilling company for suggestions on getting a lab test.  
Oh Gotchya! I will look into a lab then and the well drilling company did have a recommendation but I seem to recall them saying it's pretty expensive.
I'll check it out but will get the test strips as you suggested.

I also wanted you to know the seashell had been awesome and has slowly brought up my ph! It's been very gradual which is great as to not shock the critters...and it makes a great little pot for my plants!!!
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I really like your photos!
 
Have I mentioned that before? 
 
:)
 
StevenF said:
 
 
Ok, bear with me a minute...
So once the PH stabilizes (does that mean neutral water of 7ph or 7 and higher)?  And you said the shell will only have effect if the PH is above 7...?  That confuses me, does that mean it will not affect my super acidic water of 6.4?  Or it will just stop adding hardness after it reaches 7?
I'm sorry for so many questions.  I'm just trying to understand the best I can.
Sorry I made a typo.  Based on my understanding the shell will dissolve (slowly in acidic water and not in basic water.  Meaning the shell will only dissolve if the ph is Below 7  It will stop dissolving at about a pH of 7.    So it only has an effect if the ph is below 7.  
 
One thing to keep in mind we don't yet know what is in your water.  It is possible that there is something in there that will prevent the PH from reaching 7.  Hopefully continued use of RO water will eventually get you to a PH of 7.

 
I was just researching test strips since I'm doing so many testings lately and will continue since my water has been such a mess.  It would be much easier to use strips instead of the API freshwater kit that I currently use.  Plus I'm down to three test tubes and it's a real pain.
 
Anyway I remembered you saying the tetra 6 in 1 were good and accurate.  I noticed they do not have ammonia on the strip.  Is it hard to find a strip that has the others plus ammonia...or are they not accurate?
 
Or should I just stick with the API and get myself some more test tubes (which it seems you can only buy in a pack of 24?!?).
When I had to buy a replacement tube I purchased thesehttps://www.amazon.com/LaMotte-0898-Glass-Test-Capacity/dp/B00EA904Y4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472785640&sr=8-1&keywords=glass+test+tube+5ml+graduation
 
You will probably not find a strip with ammonia and other test.  The Tetra Ammonia test strip needs to be exposed to water for about 10 seconds.  The tetra 6 in 1 strips in comparison are only exposed to tank water for 1/2 to 1 second.  I have never used any other brand than tetra so there might be strips out there that work differently and might include other tests with ammonia.  However that said I found the Tetra ammonia strips hard to use.  The green shading is difficult to match to the chart and if you don't read them right away you might get a false positive.  I would keep your current test kit it.  It is still good and it can be used to verify the strip results.  If after time they continue to work well for your you can put the API kit on the shelf and just use the strips.  
 
The biggest factors affecting accuracy is:
1) following the instructions correctly.  For the strips you put them in the water vertically and then pull them vertically.  The strips should be exposed to water for less than one second.   In fact I have found a 0.5 second exposure to water works well.  So basically you stab the water and yank the strip out of the tank fast.
2) the ability of the person to match the color with the reference chart.  If you are color blind conventional color tests will not work.
3) the spectrum of the light when the test is compared to the reference chart.  Comparing the color with a chart will give you best results under indirect outdoor light.  Some colors will not show up well under interior lights.
 
In reality standard aquarium test are really not very accurate.  They are only accurate  enough to do the job .  If you want accuracy other methods are better and typically cost more.  however beyond accuracy some people just prefer liquids over strips and some prefer electric meters despite the higher cost. Each type of test has its positives and negatives.  Also there is noting wrong with having multiple different test on hand. In fact I think it is a good idea. If you get a reading that looks wrong you can always use a different test to verify the results.
 
There are a couple of other options to consider:
 
JBL now sells test strips that can be read by a cell phone app.https://www.amazon.com/JBL-Smartphone-Evaluation-Freshwater-Aquarium/dp/B00R5S9EQ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472792177&sr=8-1&keywords=Jbl+test+strips
I have not used them so I don't know how well they work.
 
I personally like these http://hannainst.com/products/checker-colorimeters/hi700-ammonia-lr.html highly accurate, cost more and no color charts. I currently own 3.  Each only tests one water parameter and there are about 20 different tests available http://hannainst.com/products/checker-colorimeters.html
 
Electric PH meters http://hannainst.com/categories/ph-checkers-for-education.html
I purchased one for $40.  However you need to also buy calibration fluids, storage fluids, and cleaning fluids which probably cost me another $20.
 
Total Dissolved Solids meter http://hannainst.com/products/testers/primo-tds-tester.html
This measures all solids in water while GH reads mainly calcium and magnesium. The two tests are not directly comparable but both are useful.  Also needs calibration fluids but in general only need vibration 1 to 3 times a year.
 


Just an fyi if interested I was having a hard time finding the tetra 6 in 1 test strips in any of the shops around me and went to order on line.  
I found the company Chewys, that I order my dog food from, has them and for the best price I've found.
https://www.chewy.com/tetra-easystrips-6-in-1-freshwater/dp/125669
Shipping is free over $49 and I always spend over on dog food, so it was a win for me.  Oh and they deliver to your front door (even huge bags of dog food) in ONE DAY!
Great company!
 
I'd like to get them for quick water tests. I think I would test the water more often if it was a quicker process; then test it with the API kit maybe once a month.
 
Ok, so I had my kitchen set up as a science lab last night and ran two different test kits on two different items.
 
My usual API freshwater kit and my new Tetra 6 in 1 Test strips (which I don't really understand as they are new to me and the numbers are differernt than API but I think I see my problem...Alkalinity)
 
I tested my tap (which sat out 24 hours) and my tank.
 
Here are my results:
 
TAP/TETRA                       TANK/TETRA
 
PH: 7.5                                PH: 6.5
KH: 80                                 KH: 0 (my problem)?!
chlorine: 0                           chlorine: 0
GH: 300                              GH: 75
Nitrite: 0                              Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10                           Nitrate: 10
 
TAP/API                            TANK/API
 
PH: 7.6                               PH: 7.0
ammonia: 0                        ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0                             Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5.0                         Nitrate: 5.0
 
As many of you know I don't have a very good understanding of KH and GH but from what I've gathered from this test kit is that KH (alkalinity) should be at least 120 because this is what buffers the PH and or keeps it in check.  With a zero reading in my tank I'm assuming my PH has the option to run wild (although with all of the testing I've been doing lately it's been pretty steady).  
Over the last month and a half I've slowly brought up the PH from a 6.0 to a 7.0 with RO water changes and the addition of a seashell, each time I tested it was just a tiny bit higher.  It hasn't gone past 7.0 in a week and a half.
 
So, if I've understood all of what I just said correctly...KH is my issue.  ?!  
And I'm not sure if anyone rememebers but a few weeks ago I'd gone to a new LFS and the guy knew where I lived and told me that everyone in my area has the same issue with their well water, alkalinity (which I didn't understand at the time...I thought it meant alkaline water, which I knew I didn't have) and he told me I needed an alkaline buffer which would help steady my PH, otherwise no matter what I did to bring it up...it would drop after it rose.  
This all makes sense now, although I don't want to dose chemicals and would love to have a natural solution...if there is one.
 
If this is the case, what can I do from here?  I did buy a bag of crushed coral but have not used it yet as I'm unsure about the amount and if I needed it since the PH is at a 7.0 now (still low but much better than 6.0).
 
Also I think I understand that the GH is the hardness.  That's about the extent of my understanding on that ....is hardness mineral content?  Are my levels normal?  Do I need to do anything there?
 
I waited to do this testing because as you know the well company had recently come out and dumped and restocked my "bullet" which holds the crushed coral to treat the well water and they added a few chlorine tablets.  That was two weeks ago, so I assumed it was safe to test it now?
 
I think that's all the info and questions I have.
 
Thanks a lot guys!
 
 
                               
 
 

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Were you wearing a white lab jacket when you were doing all this? :)
 
I am learning a little as you go!
 
Good luck,
Mark
 

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