Yoyos and Barbs Eating Veggies

[Avel1896]

The leopard incidentley does change its spots when living in dark environments, its melanistic form is more successful, though I admit that proves your point more than mine.

It's a metaphor. What would you have commented if I'd said.... what's bred in the bone comes out in the flesh ?

if we rely on the parameters that wild specimens are found in, well which particular article will you decide on?

I already answered this point. Unless I don't understand "particular article"

Most wild tetras live in such bad parameters in the wild they are functionally an annual fish.

Any reference ?

Bettas are found in stagnant puddles both in the wild and in captivity

Not only in puddles, also in ponds and lakes. They have an advantage in their labyrinth like other Anabantoidei fishes.

but how bad an extreme might be likely varies depending on the particular fish in question.

That is why relying on some "bibles" and opting for average parameters is, according to me, the best way to respect the fish.

 

[Myraan]

It's a metaphor. What would you have commented if I'd said.... what's bred in the bone comes out in the flesh ?

I was just commenting it's not a perfect metaphor

Any reference ?

None that I can recall, do you have a reference to show me how tetras live long happy lives in the wild after multiplying their numbers during seasonal floods after the floods recede leaving likely polluted puddles and a lucky remnant that might mange to spawn before they all die?

Not only in puddles, also in ponds and lakes. They have an advantage in their labyrinth like other Anabantoidei fishes.


That is why relying on some "bibles" and opting for average parameters is, according to me, the best way to respect the fish.

No argument there.... but you seem to interpret those bibles a lot more authority than the rest of us seem to, and a lot less leeway. Virtually everything you post is judgmental, even in cases where the only person who sees a problem is you.

 

[Avel1896]

None that I can recall

Pity. Could you try again ?

do you have a reference to show me how tetras live long happy lives in the wild after multiplying their numbers during seasonal floods after the floods recede leaving likely polluted puddles and a lucky remnant that might mange to spawn before they all die?

Not yet but I keep on seeking information.
That said, I'm pretty sure these tetras live more happy in their biotope because they are free and not at the mercy of some people that keep their fishes leaving it up to luck, very often by trusting LFS/LPS advices that have a big share of responsibility in this matter.

You and some others don't agree with my point of view ? No worries at all : who wins unanimous support ? Neither me, nobody. Thank goodness we don't all agree on everything ! I think it's one of the best ways to increase our knowledge. But we here are on a forum, a place where anyone can share their own opinions, exchange, interact with each other, then at least that is what I think.

If I may seem curt I'm sorry, it's because I place living beings, fish as it happens, above impulse buy, a kind of impulse "oh too cute I want it".... while admitting it is sometimeshard to refrain myself !

That said, its late at my place, so good nite.

 

[Myraan]

Pity. Could you try again ?

In nature P. axelrodi is considered a virtually annual fish with individuals over a year old rarely-encountered, although it can live considerably longer in aquaria.

Copy and pasted from the Seriously Fish article, it also discusses changes in the season hydrological cycle and the largish variety of pH wild populations are found.... or do suggest PCR testing to determine the exact source water as some river systems are more acid than others.

 

[anewbie]

I'm pretty sure that Tetra whether they be in the wild or aquariums don't understand the concept of freedom; or even happiness per sey...

That said, I'm pretty sure these tetras live more happy in their biotope because they are free and not at the mercy of some people that keep their fishes leaving it up to luck, very often by trusting LFS/LPS advices that have a big share of responsibility in this matter.

d nite.

 

[itiwhetu]

Forget the substrate, forget the decorations. The only thing that is going to make your poor little fish living in a glass box half happy is pH. That is because if your tank is acid you won't get ammonia spikes and therefore your poor little fish may live a little longer. Please give them some live plants for protection in their little prison.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

That said, I'm pretty sure these tetras live more happy in their biotope because they are free and not at the mercy of some people that keep their fishes leaving it up to luck [...]

If I may seem curt I'm sorry, it's because I place living beings, fish as it happens, above impulse buy, a kind of impulse "oh too cute I want it".... while admitting it is sometimeshard to refrain myself !

Forget the substrate, forget the decorations. The only thing that is going to make your poor little fish living in a glass box half happy is pH. That is because if your tank is acid you won't get ammonia spikes and therefore your poor little fish may live a little longer. Please give them some live plants for protection in their little prison.

It sounds as though both of you disagree with the hobby of aquarium and fish keeping at all. In which case, I can leave a list of other hobbies you may enjoy more, if you prefer?

 

[Avel1896]

In nature P. axelrodi is considered a virtually annual fish with individuals over a year old rarely-encountered, although it can live considerably longer in aquaria.

It's obvious : none prédators in aquarium !

Copy and pasted from the Seriously Fish article, it also discusses changes in the season hydrological cycle and the largish variety of pH wild populations are found.... or do suggest PCR testing to determine the exact source water as some river systems are more acid than others.

There are changes according to seasons making pH GH KH fluctuating, in any case, the pH fluctuates, even if only between day and night.
To those who eventually would like to read full article, here it is :

Paracheirodon axelrodi – Cardinal Tetra (Cheirodon axelrodi, Hyphessobrycon cardinalis) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

But I keep on saying that a fish known to be a soft-acidic water fish (5 to 6.5) will not thrive in a water over 7.

I'm pretty sure that Tetra whether they be in the wild or aquariums don't understand the concept of freedom; or even happiness per sey...

I'm pretty sure you're wrong : fishes newly added to a tank spend time to swim along tank walls from bottom to surface also back and forth. In wild conditions they don't lack space.

It sounds as though both of you disagree with the hobby of aquarium and fish keeping at all.

Wrong by saying that. It also means you don't understand what I say when I write : "I place living beings, fish as it happens, above impulse buy, a kind of impulse "oh too cute I want it"...

In which case, I can leave a list of other hobbies you may enjoy more, if you prefer?

I'm curious to read it !

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Wrong by saying that. It also means you don't understand what I say when I write : "I place living beings, fish as it happens, above impulse buy, a kind of impulse "oh too cute I want it"...

Oh I understand you perfectly. But no one on this thread has talked about impulse buying fish, or not caring about their needs. So you're setting up a strawman in order to attack a member for no reason other than to pretend you're better than the rest of us.

I'm curious to read it !

I shall pm you some links. But for you especially, perhaps some debate groups, since you enjoy arguing so much.

In the meantime, you have already ruined Circus' cute thread, personally attacked her and her set ups, likely dissuaded many people from every sharing photos of their fish and tanks here, for fear of toxic judgement rather than helpful feedback, and taken this thread way off topic.

I'd highly suggest that you make your own thread to argue these points if you want to, rather than continuing to hijack this one.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

This is a pointless argument, people. Circus wasn't asking for advice and judgement about water parameters. If you just want to argue, do it somewhere else.

 

[Avel1896]

Oh I understand you perfectly. But no one on this thread has talked about impulse buying fish, or not caring about their needs. So you're setting up a strawman in order to attack a member for no reason other than to pretend you're better than the rest of us.

Whoooaaahhh you burst with imagination !!

I shall pm you some links. But for you especially, perhaps some debate groups, since you enjoy arguing so much.

No no not in PM, you should post it in "General chat"

 

[Myraan]

I just re-read the entire to remind myself what started all this off.

Just wanted to point out how amused I was that while quoting several Seriously Fish articles throughout thread, the original veiled criticism was about Pea Puffers, where you chose not to link Seriously Fish because Circus was following the Seriously Fish rules there. Instead you you link some other article that seemed to go out of its way to debunk the advice in Seriously Fish in order for you to feel vindicated in criticism.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Whoooaaahhh you burst with imagination !!


No no not in PM, you should post it in "General chat"

Both of you. Please. Just quit. No one cares.

 

[Avel1896]

Both of you. Please. Just quit. No one cares.

I agree.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

You're right. So, all the more reason to provide them with the closest life conditions to their biotp.

Suggesting people start messing with the water hardness and PH is going to cause a lot more problems for fish then just leaving it alone and keeping it stable.

My local water is in the upper limits for most tetra species. I have successfully kept and bred many tetra species with no issues. I'm not talking about short term either, I'm talking 4-5 years+ with no illnesses or losses.

I have also messed with softwater/lower PH tanks. Things can get out of control very quickly when you start messing with your water parameters. Fluctuating water parameters will do way more harm to fish then stable parameters in the upper limits of their tolerance.

Also you have no idea where these fish actually come from or what they are used to. Locally bred fish will probably be a lot more adapted to local water sources. Also at your LFS will just be keeping them in whatever your local water is.

If the water from the breeders and LFS is vastly different then the water you are creating then you are going to cause a lot of shock and stress any time you introduce new fish unless you spend a LONG time acclimatising them.

In my opinion getting on to people complaining about PH and water hardness is going to do a lot more damage to fish in the long run. Messing with PH and water hardness is not something to be done lightly and, again in my opinion, stable water parameters, even if not perfect, are way more important.