Your Quarantine Tank

[boshk]

Still waiting for my main tank 33G to cycle.
 
My supposedly QT (8G) cycled in 8 days thanks to Dr Tim's One & Only.
 
I got impatient and made it a semi planted tank.
Just went and bought 6 Neon Tetra.
 
Can a planted tank even be a QT or will a sick fish end up polluting the whole thing?
 
If its a stupid idea, I'm going to have to think of how I can transfer the soil plants etc to main tank after its cycled.
 
Also, how do you guys keep a QT? 
Do you keep it running?
Or do you do 'instant' cycle with established media each time you need to use it?
or keep a bag of bio-media which fits your QT's filter hanging in your main tank??
 
thanks

 

[Far_King]

I'd not plant a quarantine tank.  I occasionally throw in a moss ball but that's about the limit.
 
I have silk plants in mine which I thoroughly clean between uses.  I use these as I feel it's important to set the fish at ease as stress can be a big issue with a sick fish.
 
I also use mine as a hospital tank.
 
Bare bottomed is best.  I've sprayed the outside of the bottom and the back.  Bottom with a stone effect paint.  You don't need to worry about lighting so much either, generally my lighting is just a single LED strip for when I need to get a better look at what's going on in there.  Most of the time the light is off.
 
I use a small internal filter on mine, to keep the filter cycled in downtime I have spare media in a cannister filter that's running on another tank.

 

[Jeremy180]

I'd not plant a quarantine tank.  I occasionally throw in a moss ball but that's about the limit.
 
I have silk plants in mine which I thoroughly clean between uses.  I use these as I feel it's important to set the fish at ease as stress can be a big issue with a sick fish.
 
I also use mine as a hospital tank.
 
Bare bottomed is best.  I've sprayed the outside of the bottom and the back.  Bottom with a stone effect paint.  You don't need to worry about lighting so much either, generally my lighting is just a single LED strip for when I need to get a better look at what's going on in there.  Most of the time the light is off.
 
I use a small internal filter on mine, to keep the filter cycled in downtime I have spare media in a cannister filter that's running on another tank.

As I've heard that reflections from a bare-bottomed tank or light colored substrate can stress some fish, Maybe just enough of a black substrate to cover the Bottom?
I have no Idea what type or brand to recommend, though.

 

[Far_King]

I used three coats of a dark grey stone with black as a final coat.  Back of the tank is just black.  I was very surprised at just how well it worked.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

My quarantine is a 10 gallon that runs on a sponge filter. I have a heater in there and few typical aquarium decorations thrown in there. 
 
I went with a fishless cycle, I threw some food in there every week, just a little at a time to get the cycle going while also adding Dr. Tim's liquid bacteria. It took me two months to let the tank cycle, I added a Ram Horn snail to the tank that my girlfriend gave me to keep the tank cycled when there's no fish in there and also to pick up any uneaten food by the fish. I usually quarantine new fish for about three weeks to a month if there are no signs of disease or parasites. 
 
People have suggested I make it a planted quarantine, but I refuse to go this route. It makes it easier to catch the fish when you can just take the decorations out and just catch the fish because they no places to hide. I also keep it bare bottom for checking underneath the fish because the bottom works as a mirror.  I think this is ideal so that you could notice worms coming out of the anus or any injuries present. This also makes it easier to observe the feces at the bottom, to make sure they're eating well and that their feces looks normal.

 

[boshk]

My quarantine is a 10 gallon that runs on a sponge filter. I have a heater in there and few typical aquarium decorations thrown in there. 
 
I went with a fishless cycle, I threw some food in there every week, just a little at a time to get the cycle going while also adding Dr. Tim's liquid bacteria. It took me two months to let the tank cycle, I added a Ram Horn snail to the tank that my girlfriend gave me to keep the tank cycled when there's no fish in there and also to pick up any uneaten food by the fish. I usually quarantine new fish for about three weeks to a month if there are no signs of disease or parasites. 
 
People have suggested I make it a planted quarantine, but I refuse to go this route. It makes it easier to catch the fish when you can just take the decorations out and just catch the fish because they no places to hide. I also keep it bare bottom for checking underneath the fish because the bottom works as a mirror.  I think this is ideal so that you could notice worms coming out of the anus or any injuries present. This also makes it easier to observe the feces at the bottom, to make sure they're eating well and that their feces looks normal.

 
thanks. It sounds like I might have made a bad decision.
Now I just need to wait for main tank to cycle and move everything over............hope I wont need to use the QT right after because I'm sure moving the substrate, plants and stones over will disrupt the QT's established cycle.

 

[Byron]

No, that was not a bad decision.  Quite the opposite.
 
First, we are talking a QT for newly acquired fish, which is a very different thing from a QT used for a sick fish.  I'll stay with the new fish QT.
 
A bare tank, especially bare bottom, is only going to add incredible stress to an already stressed fish, because it is completely un-natural.  There should always be a substrate, if only a 1/4 inch layer of play sand.  You would be amazed at how much difference this makes to fish.  Aside from this, the sand will quickly encourage all sorts of bacteria, essential to water quality, and this will help the fish.
 
And there should be some form of cover; it can be fake plants, fake wood, fake rock...just make sure it provides plenty of cover.  A layer of floating plants plus dim light is also advisable.  Floating plants (here live) will also remove a lot of ammonia and other stuff from the water, so another benefit right off.
 
I have a permanently-running lightly planted 20g that I use for new fish.  It can sit fish-less for months.  It is also useful for fry that I find when I clean one of the canister filters...I have three fry in it at this moment, growing up so they can be moved into the tank they came from.  There is nothing wrong with this process, as it provides a more established environment which will without question reduce the stress of any new fish.  And as stress is the direct cause of 95% of all fish disease, you're already "treating" the fish just by the environment.
 
Should medication become necessary, then the plants can be tossed out, along with the sand afterwards.  The few cents it costs for sand, and using plant culls from other tanks, is not expensive.  And live plants would be cheaper than fake plants that might have to be discarded.
 
I will post this and then track down a photo to add for illustration.
 
Byron.

 

[boshk]

No, that was not a bad decision.  Quite the opposite.
 
First, we are talking a QT for newly acquired fish, which is a very different thing from a QT used for a sick fish.  I'll stay with the new fish QT.
 
A bare tank, especially bare bottom, is only going to add incredible stress to an already stressed fish, because it is completely un-natural.  There should always be a substrate, if only a 1/4 inch layer of play sand.  You would be amazed at how much difference this makes to fish.  Aside from this, the sand will quickly encourage all sorts of bacteria, essential to water quality, and this will help the fish.
 
And there should be some form of cover; it can be fake plants, fake wood, fake rock...just make sure it provides plenty of cover.  A layer of floating plants plus dim light is also advisable.  Floating plants (here live) will also remove a lot of ammonia and other stuff from the water, so another benefit right off.
 
I have a permanently-running lightly planted 20g that I use for new fish.  It can sit fish-less for months.  It is also useful for fry that I find when I clean one of the canister filters...I have three fry in it at this moment, growing up so they can be moved into the tank they came from.  There is nothing wrong with this process, as it provides a more established environment which will without question reduce the stress of any new fish.  And as stress is the direct cause of 95% of all fish disease, you're already "treating" the fish just by the environment.
 
Should medication become necessary, then the plants can be tossed out, along with the sand afterwards.  The few cents it costs for sand, and using plant culls from other tanks, is not expensive.  And live plants would be cheaper than fake plants that might have to be discarded.
 
I will post this and then track down a photo to add for illustration.
 
Byron.

Never thought of it that way, guess when I think QT, I think....sick & diseased.
 
My intention was to use it as a check/temporary tank too since I can't get all my fish stock from the one LFS and I was advised not to stock the 125L fully right from the start.
 
Maybe I'll just remove the rocks and some of the Hygrophila and Staurogyne repens to the main tank.

 

[Far_King]

No, that was not a bad decision.  Quite the opposite.
 
First, we are talking a QT for newly acquired fish, which is a very different thing from a QT used for a sick fish.  I'll stay with the new fish QT.
 
 

 
Hi Byron, would you mind expanding on the second part?  I know it's slightly differing from the topic but it's I suspect the tank in question may end up being used as a sick QT as well.
 
I'm just wanting to know that I'm doing the right thing and providing the right advice.  There appear to be very differing views on this subject.  Some say that there should be nothing in the tank apart from plastic plumbing tubes so fish can hide.  You say that a fully planted tank with substrate is fine.  I prefer something in between with silk plants and the illusion of substrate (also moss balls to help with ammonia); which I fully clean down when not in use.   Currently I'm raising three Golden Panchax fry in there.
 
I always want to do what's best for my fish and if there's an improvement I can make I'd like to do it.  I feel I must be doing something right as I've never lost a fish that's been a resident of that tank.

 

[Byron]

 

No, that was not a bad decision.  Quite the opposite.
 
First, we are talking a QT for newly acquired fish, which is a very different thing from a QT used for a sick fish.  I'll stay with the new fish QT.
 
A bare tank, especially bare bottom, is only going to add incredible stress to an already stressed fish, because it is completely un-natural.  There should always be a substrate, if only a 1/4 inch layer of play sand.  You would be amazed at how much difference this makes to fish.  Aside from this, the sand will quickly encourage all sorts of bacteria, essential to water quality, and this will help the fish.
 
And there should be some form of cover; it can be fake plants, fake wood, fake rock...just make sure it provides plenty of cover.  A layer of floating plants plus dim light is also advisable.  Floating plants (here live) will also remove a lot of ammonia and other stuff from the water, so another benefit right off.
 
I have a permanently-running lightly planted 20g that I use for new fish.  It can sit fish-less for months.  It is also useful for fry that I find when I clean one of the canister filters...I have three fry in it at this moment, growing up so they can be moved into the tank they came from.  There is nothing wrong with this process, as it provides a more established environment which will without question reduce the stress of any new fish.  And as stress is the direct cause of 95% of all fish disease, you're already "treating" the fish just by the environment.
 
Should medication become necessary, then the plants can be tossed out, along with the sand afterwards.  The few cents it costs for sand, and using plant culls from other tanks, is not expensive.  And live plants would be cheaper than fake plants that might have to be discarded.
 
I will post this and then track down a photo to add for illustration.
 
Byron.

Never thought of it that way, guess when I think QT, I think....sick & diseased.
 
My intention was to use it as a check/temporary tank too since I can't get all my fish stock from the one LFS and I was advised not to stock the 125L fully right from the start.
 
Maybe I'll just remove the rocks and some of the Hygrophila and Staurogyne repens to the main tank.
 

 
When setting up a new tank, all the decor and all the plants (or as many as you intend, or is possible to acquire) should go in the tank.  Once the tank is basically done except for the fish, and the filter/heater/light are functioning, you can start adding fish.  Some are better at the start than others, not due to "cycling" here, but just the biological system; there are fish that should only be introduced to a biologically-established tank [another benefit of the planted QT].  If any of the intended fish are territorial, it is sometimes best to add them last.  And shoaling fish should always be added together.
 
Provided the plants are growing, and particularly with floating plants, the number of fish added is of far less significance than it would be in a plantless tank.  With plants, you have a "vacuum" that is going to take up the ammonia very fast.  It is next to impossible to add so many fish as to have ammonia rise to noticeable levels, provided things are kept in balance obviously.
 
Byron.

 

[Byron]

Hi Byron, would you mind expanding on the second part?  I know it's slightly differing from the topic but it's I suspect the tank in question may end up being used as a sick QT as well.
 

 
A QT for a sick fish should be relatively bare, as here you are almost certainly going to be using some sort of medication in most cases.  I now have a large piece of branchy artificial wood that takes up much of the 10g, and if the day comes when I need a QT I will have this in the tank, along with a simple sponge filter and the heater.  The only time so far that I have used a QT was to treat a Congo Tetra with pop-eye.  I used KanaPlex (kanamycin) and resolved the problem, but the poor fish was terrified in the then-bare tank, and crashed into the tank walls more than once when I approached the tank to medicate.  He busted up his mouth region doing this, so I had to deal with that too, but in the end he was fine.  But it shows how un-natural and stressful a bare tank can be.  I had no light over it either, can't imagine what that would have done; I did toss in a few smallish Water Sprite plants to help with water quality and provide cover.  Plants are not affected by kanamycin.
 
If you are having to use the new fish QT as a sick tank later, then I would probably remove the plants, lower ones anyway.  Decomposing plants from certain medications have to be considered.  I have only once used a QT for the Congo, as most disease in my experience has been of the contagious sort, and removing infected fish is of little practical value.  I have three times had internal protozoan arrive with fish, and the latter two did not show up until the fish were weeks out of QT.  But these sort of issues hgave to be dealt with in the main tank.
 

I'm just wanting to know that I'm doing the right thing and providing the right advice.  There appear to be very differing views on this subject.  Some say that there should be nothing in the tank apart from plastic plumbing tubes so fish can hide.  You say that a fully planted tank with substrate is fine.  I prefer something in between with silk plants and the illusion of substrate (also moss balls to help with ammonia); which I fully clean down when not in use.   Currently I'm raising three Golden Panchax fry in there.
I always want to do what's best for my fish and if there's an improvement I can make I'd like to do it.  I feel I must be doing something right as I've never lost a fish that's been a resident of that tank.
 

 
How many times do we mention differing advice in this forum?  There can be more than one way to do this or that, certainly, and sometimes it is best to do something the way that works best in that situation.  I'll explain why I have had success with my planted sand-substrate QT for new fish.  Members who regularly read my posts will know that I have a very scientifically-driven approach to this hobby.  I believe this is a key to success.  We are keeping wild creatures in a very artificial environment, but understanding their habitat, their requirements and expectations, and then providing as close as we can to that, is going to be rewarded.
 
I frequently acquire corys, and they will in my case always be wild caught.  These fish do not travel well, they are highly susceptible to any ammonia above zero, and they have very special traits.  If they are stressed sufficiently, they can release a toxin from the base of the pectoral fin spine that if released within a container bag will kill them within seconds.  This is why corys so often die; I know of stores that regularly receive bags full of dead corys.  When I get them home, they are acclimated to a biologically-mature tank with a fine sand substrate and a couple chunks of wood, and plants.  They will never again undergo ammonia in my tanks.  They have sand to sift through their gills as they naturally feed, so this settles them much faster, and they begin eating immediately.  In other words, they are as close to the habitat they left a few weeks back as it is possible to be in an aquarium.  No one is going to tell me that this method is not better than a bare tank.
 
The other thing about substrate is what goes on in it.  It does not take very long for all sorts of bacteria to appear and begin to do their thing, and I am not referring solely to nitrifying bacteria either--the live plants deal with that matter better anyway.  I am fortunate that I have a room dedicated to my fish, so I can have several tanks, including a permanent 20g QT for new fish or raising fry that I recover from the canisters or whatever.  The substrate is the most important area in an aquarium, more than the filter.  It is possible to have a healthy tank with no filter, I did this for over a year with my 10g.  But you cannot manage long-term without a substrate.
 
Byron.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

 
 
A bare tank, especially bare bottom, is only going to add incredible stress to an already stressed fish

That is why I keep the lights off most of the day. I don't use sand in case the food falls to the floor, I've had bad experiences with my betta fish chasing food down to the sand and swallowing a harmful amount of sand that probably has cut the inside of his mouth. I guess this wouldn't be the case with really fine sand, but I also fear that swallowing sand with damage their digestive system. Since they're new fish, they tend to not go for food right away, just like my female gourami. 
I don't like the bare bottom either, but if it avoids the worst case scenarios, I'd rather take the route with the bottomless tank, in trade for keeping the lights off most of day. I only turn the lights on when it comes time to feed the fish.
But I might just go with having some kind of substrate, not entirely sure, but I do completely agree with you that it's unnatural. 
 
 

 

My quarantine is a 10 gallon that runs on a sponge filter. I have a heater in there and few typical aquarium decorations thrown in there. 
 
I went with a fishless cycle, I threw some food in there every week, just a little at a time to get the cycle going while also adding Dr. Tim's liquid bacteria. It took me two months to let the tank cycle, I added a Ram Horn snail to the tank that my girlfriend gave me to keep the tank cycled when there's no fish in there and also to pick up any uneaten food by the fish. I usually quarantine new fish for about three weeks to a month if there are no signs of disease or parasites. 
 
People have suggested I make it a planted quarantine, but I refuse to go this route. It makes it easier to catch the fish when you can just take the decorations out and just catch the fish because they no places to hide. I also keep it bare bottom for checking underneath the fish because the bottom works as a mirror.  I think this is ideal so that you could notice worms coming out of the anus or any injuries present. This also makes it easier to observe the feces at the bottom, to make sure they're eating well and that their feces looks normal.

 
thanks. It sounds like I might have made a bad decision.
Now I just need to wait for main tank to cycle and move everything over............hope I wont need to use the QT right after because I'm sure moving the substrate, plants and stones over will disrupt the QT's established cycle.
 

This is just my tank, I'm not an expert in the hobby like Bryon, you're probably better off listening to everything he says. He's always got helpful advice for everyone. 

 

[boshk]

 

Hi Byron, would you mind expanding on the second part?  I know it's slightly differing from the topic but it's I suspect the tank in question may end up being used as a sick QT as well.
 

 
A QT for a sick fish should be relatively bare, as here you are almost certainly going to be using some sort of medication in most cases.  I now have a large piece of branchy artificial wood that takes up much of the 10g, and if the day comes when I need a QT I will have this in the tank, along with a simple sponge filter and the heater.  The only time so far that I have used a QT was to treat a Congo Tetra with pop-eye.  I used KanaPlex (kanamycin) and resolved the problem, but the poor fish was terrified in the then-bare tank, and crashed into the tank walls more than once when I approached the tank to medicate.  He busted up his mouth region doing this, so I had to deal with that too, but in the end he was fine.  But it shows how un-natural and stressful a bare tank can be.  I had no light over it either, can't imagine what that would have done; I did toss in a few smallish Water Sprite plants to help with water quality and provide cover.  Plants are not affected by kanamycin.
 
If you are having to use the new fish QT as a sick tank later, then I would probably remove the plants, lower ones anyway.  Decomposing plants from certain medications have to be considered.  I have only once used a QT for the Congo, as most disease in my experience has been of the contagious sort, and removing infected fish is of little practical value.  I have three times had internal protozoan arrive with fish, and the latter two did not show up until the fish were weeks out of QT.  But these sort of issues hgave to be dealt with in the main tank.
 

I'm just wanting to know that I'm doing the right thing and providing the right advice.  There appear to be very differing views on this subject.  Some say that there should be nothing in the tank apart from plastic plumbing tubes so fish can hide.  You say that a fully planted tank with substrate is fine.  I prefer something in between with silk plants and the illusion of substrate (also moss balls to help with ammonia); which I fully clean down when not in use.   Currently I'm raising three Golden Panchax fry in there.
I always want to do what's best for my fish and if there's an improvement I can make I'd like to do it.  I feel I must be doing something right as I've never lost a fish that's been a resident of that tank.
 

 
How many times do we mention differing advice in this forum?  There can be more than one way to do this or that, certainly, and sometimes it is best to do something the way that works best in that situation.  I'll explain why I have had success with my planted sand-substrate QT for new fish.  Members who regularly read my posts will know that I have a very scientifically-driven approach to this hobby.  I believe this is a key to success.  We are keeping wild creatures in a very artificial environment, but understanding their habitat, their requirements and expectations, and then providing as close as we can to that, is going to be rewarded.
 
I frequently acquire corys, and they will in my case always be wild caught.  These fish do not travel well, they are highly susceptible to any ammonia above zero, and they have very special traits.  If they are stressed sufficiently, they can release a toxin from the base of the pectoral fin spine that if released within a container bag will kill them within seconds.  This is why corys so often die; I know of stores that regularly receive bags full of dead corys.  When I get them home, they are acclimated to a biologically-mature tank with a fine sand substrate and a couple chunks of wood, and plants.  They will never again undergo ammonia in my tanks.  They have sand to sift through their gills as they naturally feed, so this settles them much faster, and they begin eating immediately.  In other words, they are as close to the habitat they left a few weeks back as it is possible to be in an aquarium.  No one is going to tell me that this method is not better than a bare tank.
 
The other thing about substrate is what goes on in it.  It does not take very long for all sorts of bacteria to appear and begin to do their thing, and I am not referring solely to nitrifying bacteria either--the live plants deal with that matter better anyway.  I am fortunate that I have a room dedicated to my fish, so I can have several tanks, including a permanent 20g QT for new fish or raising fry that I recover from the canisters or whatever.  The substrate is the most important area in an aquarium, more than the filter.  It is possible to have a healthy tank with no filter, I did this for over a year with my 10g.  But you cannot manage long-term without a substrate.
 
Byron.
 


thanks for all the info.
 
I changed my QT a little, basically no soil, just sand and a few plants and rocks.
 
My main tank is still causing me grief, well actually, I'm causing myself grief.
Tank cycled, so I went and aquascaped it knowing full well ADA soil will cause some sort of ammonia spike. I didn't even use much.
 
last I read, Ammonia 1, Nitrite 1, Nitrate 40
 
I just couldn't leave it alone. Guy's ego I guess.
 
I could have used sand only with the same plants etc etc and I could have had cories, gourami, guppies, tetra and rasbora in there right now.