Your Opinion

[Nevergone815]

All I know is that I want some, but they're illegal to own in NY state without a special license (which is near impossible to get from what I've heard). The reason for this is that I actually had a long talk, with AMS I think, explaining to me piranhas and I became obsessed as he explained to me that they weren't as bad as people made them seem (just like you Gatorbait). Its sad that those that wish to take care of them properly and responsibly cannot due to laws (which were put into effect because stupid people released them into lakes and they started surviving and were being pulled out by fisherman- that's hoe it was discovered, by fisherman.), but the people who can, some of them misuse this privilege.

Hmm... looks like its tiem for me to move to another state .

 

[Boids-n-more]

This is why at zoo's you only see herbivores being fed. Can you imagine the animal cruelty fines they would get if you saw a lion eating a piece of meat , or a 15 foot snake swallowing a rabbit. Alot of fish are predators and some specialize in eating certain animals or fish or crustacians and what not. The one mouse that i saw weighed down was a dead mouse they found in the house and i could not find a live mouse weighed down. One thing that is clear is people value certain animals above others and when that animal becomes prey for another they can't handle it. I don't own any piranahs but to me mice , rats and rabbits are prey food for other animals that i keep ( snakes and monitor lizards ) , some of you on here would understand that and others won't. Most of my animals eat frozen thatwed prey but i have some that won't eat dead no matter how hard i try to switch them. 1 last thing if you don't want to see another animal get eaten then don't go looking for it , cause you will find just about any animal getting eaten bye another animal , thats life not cruelty , everything has to eat.

 

[Boids-n-more]

This is why at zoo's you only see herbivores being fed. Can you imagine the animal cruelty fines they would get if you saw a lion eating a piece of meat , or a 15 foot snake swallowing a rabbit. Alot of fish are predators and some specialize in eating certain animals or fish or crustacians and what not. The one mouse that i saw weighed down was a dead mouse they found in the house and i could not find a live mouse weighed down. One thing that is clear is people value certain animals above others and when that animal becomes prey for another they can't handle it. I don't own any piranahs but to me mice , rats and rabbits are prey food for other animals that i keep ( snakes and monitor lizards ) , some of you on here would understand that and others won't. Most of my animals eat frozen thatwed prey but i have some that won't eat dead no matter how hard i try to switch them. 1 last thing if you don't want to see another animal get eaten then don't go looking for it , cause you will find just about any animal getting eaten bye another animal , thats life not cruelty , everything has to eat.

 

[LisaLQ]

Here we go, the "it's nature" crap again....like they'd naturally be hand fed mice/goldfish in the wild - hmm - yep, that's natural.

Anyhoo, I dont know anything about Ps, but Gator sounds like the expert - I though (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that pirhanas in the wild are more likely to eat dead animals, not live ones? And it was just bad press about them being vicious killers.

Like I said, I'm probably wrong...but if I am, blame Animal Planet lol (incidentally, I watch it more since Steve Irwin died, now his shows - that was animal cruelty).

First I want to say thank you to CFC for bringing this thread back and spending his own time to make it a better thread for all of us. I asked him what happened to it and he said it got out of hand, he could have just left it at that, and had every right to, but he went out of his way to clean it up and make it available to all of us. So again Thank you, CFC.

You're partially correct, Lisa. Piranhas will eat dead animals in the wild.

The Pygocentrus (Pygo's) travel in loosely formed shoals where competition for food is much greater so they will look for anything they can get. They will sometimes kill healthy fish but that wouldn't be the norm. They are more or less scavengers and seek out any weakness amongst a school of fish. Piranhas are one of the best at seeking the tiniest of wekness that even we wouldn't notice. The vibration of a fish swimming differently, the way it floats when still etc.

Serrasalmus, like S. rhombeus (rhom) sometimes travel in loose shoals but they are much smaller shoals and they are more apt to be alone and not travel among that shoal for very long. They are the ones that it's harder to convert to non-live fish.

I'd say that all in all, piranhas are "opportunistic" predators. They are some of the quickest fish in the water but they can't go for long periods, it's more like short bursts so they don't waste their time going after healthy fish as much. They are very sneaky also. They will catch their prey in different ways. They will ambush, straight out swim and catch and also stay visible for other schools acting nonchalant and circle, with each few circles getting closer and closer until he's within attack range.


Edit: The bad press started with theodore Roosevelt and ihs travels to S.A. The locals put a cow in the water and the piranhas tore it down to the bone in just a couple minutes. he came back to the US and talked of these piranhas as man-eaters and pumped them up. Which I would have thought so too but read on...

Since then, it has been said that it was staged. They kept the piranhas in side the same stretch of river withing a fence, starved them (I don't remember how long tbh) and then when Roosevelt was there added the cow to the starving piranhas.

In some cases like this, I agree that piranhas can be extremely vicious but it's not a very good indication of the species. I would think most fish that were starved like this could become "terrors" trying to eat so they can live. My Zebra Danios go after food much harder than most piranhas I've had.

The locals swim, bathe and even cut their fish right in the river where piranhas are present. They'll even drop the innards to the piranhas and from just a few feet away they swim in, take and hurry away as fast as they can. There are cases of someone being bitten but they are few and far between. The locals know more about piranhas (RBP's mainly) than any of us do and they aren't afraid of them, so they can't be all that bad.

That was possibly one of the most informative posts I've read on here in a very long time lol - I wish there was a way of nominating for "Post of the Month" (like the Pet of the Month comp).

Thanks very much Gator (and please excuse the way I mis-spelled piranha - I know that "h" goes somewhere...)

 

[andywg]

This is why at zoo's you only see herbivores being fed. Can you imagine the animal cruelty fines they would get if you saw a lion eating a piece of meat , or a 15 foot snake swallowing a rabbit.

Actually, at my local zoo I have often seen the big cats being fed. There's something sickly interesting about following someone pulling a cart loaded up with huge lumps of cow and putting it in for the lions and tigers.

The zoo even points out on its website and flyers that Friday is the fasting day for the big cats so that those who want to see them eat know when to go.

I don't see how there could be animal cruelty fines for feeding a lion a piece of meat that is from a humanely slaughtered cow. Otherwise they would surely have to fine any restaurent serving steak?

 

[raptorrex]

This is why at zoo's you only see herbivores being fed. Can you imagine the animal cruelty fines they would get if you saw a lion eating a piece of meat , or a 15 foot snake swallowing a rabbit.

Actually, at my local zoo I have often seen the big cats being fed. There's something sickly interesting about following someone pulling a cart loaded up with huge lumps of cow and putting it in for the lions and tigers.

The zoo even points out on its website and flyers that Friday is the fasting day for the big cats so that those who want to see them eat know when to go.

I don't see how there could be animal cruelty fines for feeding a lion a piece of meat that is from a humanely slaughtered cow. Otherwise they would surely have to fine any restaurent serving steak?

people are odd that way.

not long ago there was a bbc news item on the farming of siberian tigers in china. the farm would feed the aminals a live cow once a week to entertain the paying guests. the news report showed the feeding up to the piont the tigers pounced, then cut back to a grimfaced reporter. the next item was on iraq. we were then treated to pictures of, burnt and dismembered iraqi bodys

as i say people are odd that way.

 

[Gatorbait]

That was possibly one of the most informative posts I've read on here in a very long time lol - I wish there was a way of nominating for "Post of the Month" (like the Pet of the Month comp).

Thanks very much Gator (and please excuse the way I mis-spelled piranha - I know that "h" goes somewhere...)

Wow, I really appreciate that very much, Lisa. I'm really glad that there are some here like yourself and those who have posted that are interested in at least learning about piranhas, even if they never want them, at least you'll know what to believe and not believe about the myths.

These are such small 5 minute generalizations and I could go into way more depth given the time and there are many that know so much more than I ever will so I appreciate the kind words very much.

lol yea, I know what you mean, it's weird having an "h" there and as many typo's as I make, who am I to correct anyone?


As I said, these are generalizations and I have had some pretty mean ones that are aggressive. rhoms, elongatus, sanchezi's, ternetzi's caribe are all some I've had that will attack the glass to try and get you. I've never had any rbp's like that tho and they seem to be the most skittish piranhas of all. I've also never been able to keep anything with a rhom or elongatus. They are loners and have killed everything I've tried putting in there so I gave up on that many years ago.

IMO, in keeping some of the meanest cichlids, piranhas are much more territorial than cichlids are and they will fight for their territory much more. I've had motagauense, managuense,labiatus, citrinellus, umbee,dovii, flowerhorn etc and that has been my experience, at least.

Another thing I noticed is they fight differently than New World cichlids. Whereas, most of them like to lock jaws, piranhas swim in a tight circle if they are close in size. Spinning real fast to establish dominance or one will chase and kill. Kind of like some Mbuna fight and go for the flanks.

I've also noticed that piranhas will give up their sides or flanks (turn sideways) to the other piranha when on the territory boundary, and shake to warn them to not go past this line, so to speak. they will also do this when being submissive. This is my thought and I could be totally wrong but I think it's because of the way piranhas are shaped that they can't get bitten in the sides by another piranha. I've seen them try at least a thousand times and very rarely will I see a mark. The worst I saw was a few lines where 3 teeth scraped the skin but not deep at all and I really had to look hard to see it. I always found this interesting.

The more people know about piranhas, the less scared they seem to be, IME. I'm not scared in the least by my own. Others I am a bit more hesitant but it's a respect and not so much an all out fear. They do have teeth, and the locals used to and still may use their teeth as scissors and knives. They even cut hair with them. So they are really sharp....This is the type of piranha I have....

So respecting them is a good thing but getting rid of the many myths we hear about them is also important.

 

[Nevergone815]

I'm really glad that there are some here like yourself and those who have posted that are interested in at least learning about piranhas, even if they never want them, at least you'll know what to believe and not believe about the myths.

I'm one of the ones interested . I want some really badly, I'm even considering moving to another state so that I can legally own some. IMO, they are really fascinating creatures and should be respected for what they are, not shown off like a freak show, like you are trying to stop. If what I just said was confusing... I meant that you are trying to stop all the accusations of them being these man-killers and "freaks" to show off, and to put them back into the proper place that they deserve to be, and with the respect they deserve. I hope that made sense and didn't come off wrong .

 

[Gatorbait]

I'm really glad that there are some here like yourself and those who have posted that are interested in at least learning about piranhas, even if they never want them, at least you'll know what to believe and not believe about the myths.

I'm one of the ones interested . I want some really badly, I'm even considering moving to another state so that I can legally own some. IMO, they are really fascinating creatures and should be respected for what they are, not shown off like a freak show, like you are trying to stop. If what I just said was confusing... I meant that you are trying to stop all the accusations of them being these man-killers and "freaks" to show off, and to put them back into the proper place that they deserve to be, and with the respect they deserve. I hope that made sense and didn't come off wrong .

No problems Nevergone.

I understand what you mean and thank you. There are quite a few people that are doing the same thing and many that are much more involved than I, for which I know I'm grateful for.

Like in most cases of animals, the good that we hear about is vastly outnumbered by the bad.

It's definitely not a fish for everyone and I respect that, I'm just doing my small part and I'm still learning a lot about them the longer I've had them.

You must want one pretty badly to consider moving to be able to have them? What kind/s are you interested in?

 

[Boids-n-more]

got to say those terth look like miniture shark teeth. Pretty cool looking.

 

[Nevergone815]

No problems Nevergone.

I understand what you mean and thank you. There are quite a few people that are doing the same thing and many that are much more involved than I, for which I know I'm grateful for.

Like in most cases of animals, the good that we hear about is vastly outnumbered by the bad.

It's definitely not a fish for everyone and I respect that, I'm just doing my small part and I'm still learning a lot about them the longer I've had them.

You must want one pretty badly to consider moving to be able to have them? What kind/s are you interested in?

I'm glad you understood what i meant

Yea, NY is pretty gay anyways lol, no fireworks, no piranhas, the only state that still has the cigarettes that don't stay lit (not that I care as I don't smoke), what else is there . I'm sure there is more that I can't think of right now...

As for types, I've always wanted to own a variety. RBs are on the top of my list. I even check out every pacu I see for sale to see if I could "accidentally" pick up a piranha thinking it was a RB pacu... though I must admit I don't know the exact differences, but I'm sure you can tell right away by the teeth as one is a herbivore by nature and one a carnivore. Also, the tank mates would be a mess while that one is fine as can be lol. Also, I think they're called Black Rhombas or something... supposed ot be nice and cost a pretty penny but heard they are well worth it. I was thinking of getting Catoprion mento aka Wimple piranha while I am in NY (if I could find them) as they are "technically" not a piranha and I could own them. At least so I've been told.

The list someone once gave me was along with some basic info they gave... ( I saved the PMs from AMS )


Serrasalmus compressus- Grows to about 7 inches in captivity, highly aggressive, minimum tank size of 75, but can get away with 55, usually wont find one under $80. AN all around great piranha.

Serrasalmus geryi ($250 so may be too pricey)- These are a beatiful piranha, (check my signature) HIGHLY aggressive, best kept alone, known to be finger chasers and is HIGHLY expensive, the best price Ive seen yet was $250 for a single specimen. Provided you have the cash for one, they will be your favorite piranha.

Serrasalmus sanchezi- One of the smaller piranhas growing to 6 inches, commonly available where piranhas are sold, minimum tank size of 55. Good begginer piranha.

Serrasalmus spilopleura- Grows to 8 inches, minimum of 75 gallons, can be dull colored, not to active.

Serrasalmus elongatus- Grows to 8 inches, requires the largest possible aqaurium you can supply as they are highly active, big appetite and known to be a finger chaser. The dull "regular" variety is somewhat common but the black mask form is hard to find.

Serrasalmus altuvei- Grows to 6 inches, care relative to the S.Compressus

Pristobrycon striolatus (impossible to find so is probably not an option)- Grows to 8 inches, quite expensive, very dangerous to owners, IMPOSSIBLE to find.

Catoprion mento (not an actual piranha but I highly reccomend these)- Grows to 5 inches, requires a minimum of a 29 gallon tank, beautiful nice colorations, difficult to find, youll usually need to send a special order to get one, around $30, quite aggressive, I highly reccomend these to new piranha keepers.


Please note that I was just inferring for info on some "beginner types" plus some more "difficult types" to keep. I really like the concept the the Wimples.

I would be interested in more types. Any that you suggest yourself? Remember it would be my first piranha and what species for later on when I get more experience. Like I aid, they're illegal in NY, but moving i an option :lo:

 

[Gatorbait]

By Black rhombus I'm assuming you mean Black Rhom? Serrasalmus rhombeus. That's what I have right now and the picture I showed.

They get huge and are probably only outsized by a manueli. When juvi's they are very shy and skittish but after a while they will come out of their shell and you'll sometimes wish they didn't. lol Like most fish it all depens on the particular fish but rhoms generally tend to be very aggresive and the most territorial fish I've ever owned. They will not accept ANY other tankmates and I've tried tons of them as have many people I know, they just kill anything and everything. They are beautiful fish and I love them though. The last one I had would chase your finger and slam the tank trying to get at whoever walked by. I had to have a divider to do wc's and even putting it in was a chore.

As far as the elongatus, they are pretty much the same. I would make sure you have a huge tank for them if you were to get one even though they don't grow that huge they are ambush predators and love room to swim. They can't have too much room.

A sanchezi would be perfect and I'd suggest that. They are great fish and pretty aggressive, loner fish and be kept in a 55g for life.

If you want shoals, you could try a geryi shoal and that's about the only Serras that you can group but your chances aren't good that it will work but there has been success with it. They are so expensive it's not worth trying and they are very aggressive. Serra's are generally the aggressive and mean ones that have to be kept alone.

If you want Pygo shoals I'll give a couple suggestions....

Ternetzi's, which are beautiful fish and basically are rbp's but less shy and more aggressive. Feeding time with these guys is wild and they will rip frozen shrimp and fish up in a hurry.

Also, Super reds. They are wild and less shy than regular natt's we get from the lfs.

Let me know what you're thinking and I'll reply back tomorrow as it's late and bedtime. That will give you a chance to think about it also.

A general rule of thumb is- (remember just general)

Serrasalmus= Loners and very aggressive fish.

Pygocentrus= Shoaling and a tad more skittish

 

[Nevergone815]

Yea I meant Black Rhom

As for keeping. I would like an easy to keep one to start and one that isn't exactly "expensive". I expect to pay money for all of these, but as much as I hear good about RBs being good for beginners. I don't want to conform with the "beginner" fish and try something a bit harder and a bit more "fun to keep". I think that made sense lol. Basically, I like the Black Rhoms I would like a fish that I can get away with keeping it in a small group (like 1-2) and it be fine. Something that will have character and something that tank setup won't be too difficult. I understand most piranha grow big to an extent. But I don't want one that requires too much space as I have big cichlid tanks that would need ot go into the house as well

 

[Gatorbait]

Yea I meant Black Rhom

As for keeping. I would like an easy to keep one to start and one that isn't exactly "expensive". I expect to pay money for all of these, but as much as I hear good about RBs being good for beginners. I don't want to conform with the "beginner" fish and try something a bit harder and a bit more "fun to keep". I think that made sense lol. Basically, I like the Black Rhoms I would like a fish that I can get away with keeping it in a small group (like 1-2) and it be fine. Something that will have character and something that tank setup won't be too difficult. I understand most piranha grow big to an extent. But I don't want one that requires too much space as I have big cichlid tanks that would need ot go into the house as well

There are no piranhas I know of that can be kept safely in pairs. Even with rbp's the dominant one will usually kill off the weaker one.

Black Rhoms definitely have to be kept alone. They're even meaner with conspecifics. You'd eventually have to get a 150g tank or so with a full grown one but that would be years down the road.

Try a search for a S. sanchezi and see if you'd like that. Can be kept alone, (I know you want more than 1) but it would be fine for life in a 55g tank and has personality.

If you want 3 you could go with a Pygo shoal. How much are you willing to spend? Ternetzi's would be the best as far as aggressiveness and not being shy, caribe's would be the same as they are quite aggresive and Super Reds are nice and not as shy as LFS rbp's.

 

[PRW1988]

I can understand feeding things like frozen pinky mice which won't feel the pain, and feeder fish which they pray on in the wild regardless, however I in no way condone feeding a LIVE mouse to a Piranha... atleast when fed to a snake the mouse dies instantly, but Piranhas rip pieces of flesh from their pray... IMO that's just too cruel to do, I know I'd never do it with my Piranha