Yet another stocking suggestions thread ;p 40L/10gal

[ColourMeSurprised]

Starting a new thread so that the title of the old one being about plants doesn't muddle things!

Currently cycling a tank using the silent/plant cycle method, and musing over fish choices while I wait for growth! XD Originally this was planned as a guppy tank, but I've discovered that my water hardness is gonna be a big no-no for that.

pH: Not 100% sure on this as it's varying a little due to just getting the tank settled! It seems to hover around 6.8-7.2 though.
GH: 82.5 ppm / 4.6 dH

How viable is it to harden the water using additives like crushed coral/limestone/water remineralizer/etc? I understand that this would require extra maintenance and calculation of the correct amounts during water changes. Any suggestions as to the best option here? Or is it generally really to be avoided for whatever reason?

Alternatively, could I get some suggestions on what might suit my natural water parameters? My original tentative plan was:

> Guppies - Was considering an odd-numbered group of males to avoid overcrowding from breeding, though I'm aware there'd be the potential of them fighting so wasn't 100% sure on this.
> Shrimp - I'd prefer cherry shrimp; would these be suited to my water or no? If no, any suggestions as to any other shrimp that might work?
> 2/3 African Dwarf Frogs - Love these little guys. Can't find any info on whether they have a preferred hardness of water or not? Seems like they likely would but once again google fails me!

Any suggestions as to what might be able to replace the guppies in this equation? Part of the draw to them was the variety in colour they present. A pair of Honey Gourami are something I've looked at, but I'm not sure if they'd play nice with everyone else and/or be happy in a 10gal?

 

[Essjay]

Frogs should not be kept with fish, but would work alone in a 40 litre. Why?
Frogs are almost blind and find their food by smell. By the time they've found it, the fish would have eaten the lot.
Fish have been known to nip frogs.
Frogs have been known to mistake fish for food (happened to me with frogs and a betta)
Frogs are very sensitive to medication so if the fish get sick you can't treat them.

Your GH is OK for cherry shrimps, though Salty Shrimp additive would make it a bit harder.



What are the dimensions of the tank - is it wide and shallow or tall and narrow?

 

[ColourMeSurprised]

From what I've seen from previous research it is possible to keep them together, though not ideal, I understand. I had planned on designating a feeding space for them, depositing food near the bottom of the tank with a turkey baster, distracting the fish with alternative food while they eat, providing plant cover for escape, etc. but understood. I'll consider leaving the frogs out.

Okay, salty shrimp additive would up the hardness of the water? Just had a quick look - looks like that's unlikely to directly influence the pH? Which was my main concern with the limestone/coral/etc. Would that be likely to up it enough to allow for guppies, or am I looking at too large a gap there to really bridge?

I don't have exact dimensions to hand, but will attach a photo to show the general shape. Obviously ignore the plant situation - that's now different XD

 

[Essjay]

I haven't used Salty Shrimp so i don't know how its potential GH is. I know @seangee uses it in one of his tanks so he may be able to help.

 

[ColourMeSurprised]

Thank you!

 

[seangee]

I haven't used Salty Shrimp so i don't know how its potential GH is. I know @seangee uses it in one of his tanks so he may be able to help.

Here is a link to the product page http://saltyshrimp.de/english/shrimp_mineral_gh_kh_plus.html
One scoop per 10 litres (2 grams per scoop) will raise the GH by 6 degrees, so your 4.6 reading will increase to 10.6. It raises KH by half as much or 3 degrees. This is not likely to affect your pH unless your source water has low KH. In the tank where I use this with RO the pH is 7. In my other tanks the pH is under 6, but this is because there is nothing in my water to stop the pH from dropping. One positive is that the dosage is absolutely consistent. I add a single level scoop to 10 litres and my water always comes out exactly the same. I no longer bother testing weekly and only test every few months, or when I open a new tub - but it has never varied.

10.6 dGH is fine for guppies but you could increase it further by adding more of it. If you added 3g per 10 liters you end up with dGH 13.6. This is still well within the range for cherry shrimp. An alternative to consider may be Dennerle's bee shrimp salt. I haven't used this but it claims to raise the GH by 6 degrees (per scoop) without affecting the KH. I have not looked into the composition of either, but my plants do well with Salty Shrimp, and Dennerle are known for their aquatic plant supplements - so I would expect that to work well for plants as well.

 

[ColourMeSurprised]

Ahh that helps a ton, thanks so much! I think I’ll look at doing that then and stick with the guppies and shrimp! Thanks for your help!

Are there any other tankmates I could be considering to go in with these guys without overcrowding/starting fights if I forgo the frogs? I’ve seen cory catfish suggested a lot and they’re adorable but my tank wouldn’t be suitable for them with the gravel rather than sand.

 

[utahfish]

Ahh that helps a ton, thanks so much! I think I’ll look at doing that then and stick with the guppies and shrimp! Thanks for your help!

Are there any other tankmates I could be considering to go in with these guys without overcrowding/starting fights if I forgo the frogs? I’ve seen cory catfish suggested a lot and they’re adorable but my tank wouldn’t be suitable for them with the gravel rather than sand.

I would forgo frogs with fish not just for the reasons already mentioned but they also need sand not gravel. Gravel is too rough on their tummies plus the cracks in gravel trap food and waste in the crack which harbor bacteria that can lead to bacterial infections in the frogs who are always on the gravel.
Also keeping frogs with fish you miss all their fun behavior as they hide mostly around fish and in frog only tanks they are out and about.

 

[ColourMeSurprised]

Yes, I understand. If forgoing the frogs are there any other tankmates that might make sense?

 

[ColourMeSurprised]

Alternatively if I look at replacing the gravel with sand, might this open up more options?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Ahh that helps a ton, thanks so much! I think I’ll look at doing that then and stick with the guppies and shrimp! Thanks for your help!

Are there any other tankmates I could be considering to go in with these guys without overcrowding/starting fights if I forgo the frogs? I’ve seen cory catfish suggested a lot and they’re adorable but my tank wouldn’t be suitable for them with the gravel rather than sand.

Tank is really too small for any bottom dwellers other than the shrimp. Otos might be suggested elsewhere, but please don't listen, otos need soft water and will die young if kept in harder water - I made that mistake and deeply regret it.

My suggestion is to get the guppies and shrimp, and consider that fully stocked. Maybe consider a snail or two, nerites are good. It's tempting when you're starting out to want to get a selection of everything and pack as much as you can into too small a tank. It's a mistake a lot of beginners make, and usually leads to deaths since there's no room for error in a tank without much water volume to dilute. It only takes an air pump breaking, a heater malfunction or a filter getting clogged for things to start going wrong fast, and the more stocked the tank is, the less time there is to catch the problem and fix it before things start dying.

I think once you add the guppies and shrimp, you'll see that there's plenty going on in there to watch.

 

[CassCats]

if you switch to sand and NOT harden your water, you could keep pygmy cories, a group of 10.

A trio of Sparkling gourami would work in your tank, but no shrimp with them, they'd eat them.

 

[ColourMeSurprised]

Okay, thanks! I'll stick with the guppies and shrimp, and once they're settled in maybe look at considering the idea of a snail or two at that point! ^^

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Okay, thanks! I'll stick with the guppies and shrimp, and once they're settled in maybe look at considering the idea of a snail or two at that point! ^^

Awesome! Think of it this way, it's better to under-stock than over-stock. Partly so the tank is more stable and easier to manage, but also because it's much easier to add something later, than it is to remove some creatures later, ya know?

If it still seems too empty once you have guppies and shrimp, and maintenance is still easy, you can always add something else weeks or months later. But if you over stock from the beginning.. that's a much more difficult fix.

Please share photos when it's stocked and running! Always nice to see member's tanks.

 

[Essjay]

Don't forget that if you want to keep guppies you will need to add minerals to the new water at exactly the same dose rate at every water change to keep the hardness stable. You must have some of the mineral on hand at all times - you may need to do several large emergency water changes and you cannot risk running out of the mineral.

Or decide to keep soft water fish insead of guppies.