WOW!!!! A $500.00 Cory, you would have to really want one of those pretty badly… way beyond me…

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You think that Cory is a lot? Check out this pleco for $2500.
 
Bred by one farm =/= mass production.

They're still very new to the hobby. Glaser gets their hands on rarer stuff first often. They are going to have a high price tag for various reasons. (Fish slower to maturity, spawning triggers are more work, how much they paid to get their hands on their breeding group, etc).

Just because YOU think poorly of people who will want to buy this fish, does not discredit the fact that it is this price for a reason. People like what they like, your opinion holds no power over that fact. It is going to be expensive for awhile, and rightfully so. That's the way the corydoras go with the rarer ones. Same goes for the pleco trade too, high price tags among a LOT of them. Slow growing, slow maturing, more-work-to-breed fish and lower availability impacts pricing.



This is not a hard concept to understand. Example:

L046 Zebra Pleco

Once upon a time they were selling for $700+ each fish for all the reasons you mentioned. There was a ban on exporting them. Their egg clutches are small anywhere from 6-15 in most cases and there weren't many breeders that had mass quantities of breeders to produce enough to meet the demand. Also many breeders were trying to sell only males to prohibit anyone else from breeding. Again as you mentioned this fish takes some work to breed, water quality has to be right, it takes 3-4 years to reach sexual maturity, seasonal changes/food/habitat etc etc...it's not a fish that just anyone with no work ethic or lack of time can throw in a tank and breed. Many many factors to consider in the price of this specific fish.

Belenz in Indonesia has been breeding these for many years now, has built up enough stock to essentially supply all the demand and basically crashed the market making this fish that was once seemingly unattainable due to high price a fish that is much more affordable now to many more people.

This is capitalism 101....if the supply is low and the demand is high prices are also going to be high. Anyone who sold these fish for less to the general consumer 20 years ago would have been a legit fool. If you think otherwise then you're a fool and have little understanding of modern economics.

The same can be said for many hard to get desirable fish just like these CW111's. You think Aquarium Glaser has spent all that money on their facilities to just give fish away at cost?!! It's unbelievable this has to even be explained. As a small time breeder myself (a spec of dust with no hope of making money) i know that having some high end fish will support my fish keeping habit and maybe put a few pennies in my pocket as a supplement to my modest income. Yes I have high end fish and yes I will sell for market value no less period and if I had started this 20 years sooner maybe I could have turned this into a fullblown career but anyone that is able to make a living in this business is taking the profit where they can get it because most of the time you only have a small window before the prices eventually drop. Opinions on what prices should actually be are just that, opinions..

I made a comment to start this thread that if Dan's can get $500 a fish that's great and I meant it. Personally I wouldn't pay that and the only reason, I repeat the only reason is because I talk to many other breeders and know where I can get them cheaper. Dan's has mucho overhead, mucho costs associated with running his business and needs to grab every dollar he can so guys like Magnum can have a reputable place to acquire fish they want. He provides quality fish, doesn't sell them until he knows they are disease free and healthy which means he has to hold onto them for longer then most other places would. His overhead costs are higher because of this but his reputation in the industry begets the prices he asks for to support his method of selling quality fish you can count on.

@CassCats ill say the same thing I said to Magnum the other day, this place needs people like you. Forums are a relic in today's day and age. Don't let a disagreement keep you from those of us who appreciate what you bring to the table. We don't always agree and have differences of opinion but you're a quality contributor who holds value here that I can appreciate and others have to feel the same.
 
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@CassCats ill say the same thing I said to Magnum the other day, this place needs people like you. Forums are a relic in today's day and age. Don't let a disagreement keep you from those of us who appreciate what you bring to the table. We don't always agree and have differences of opinion but you're a quality contributor who holds value here that I can appreciate and others have to feel the same.
I can't agree with you more. Thats what makes a forum interesting. Differing opinions. Friendly discussions are healthy and should be encouraged.
 
You think that Cory is a lot? Check out this pleco for $2500.
I can't view the page, it says my country is blocked from that site :)

TFF country banned from website.jpg
 
This is not a hard concept to understand. Example:

Once upon a time they were selling for $700+ each fish for all the reasons you mentioned. There was a ban on exporting them. Their egg clutches are small anywhere from 6-15 in most cases and there weren't many breeders that had mass quantities of breeders to produce enough to meet the demand. Also many breeders were trying to sell only males to prohibit anyone else from breeding. Again as you mentioned this fish takes some work to breed, water quality has to be right, it takes 3-4 years to reach sexual maturity, seasonal changes/food/habitat etc etc...it's not a fish that just anyone with no work ethic or lack of time can throw in a tank and breed. Many many factors to consider in the price of this specific fish.
To my knowledge all Corydoras catfish are sexually mature and capable of breeding at 2 years of age and many can breed when 1 year old. The females also produce more than 6-15 eggs and many females shed 50+ eggs per spawning.

Companies like Aquarium Glaser know how to breed fish and Corydoras aren't hard to breed. The fish are well fed and looked after. When they are in breeding condition a group of 6-10 fish are put in an aquarium and a massive water change is done with cold water. The next day the fish have bred. It's not rocket science.


This is capitalism 101....if the supply is low and the demand is high prices are also going to be high. Anyone who sold these fish for less to the general consumer 20 years ago would have been a legit fool. If you think otherwise then you're a fool and have little understanding of modern economics.
I know how capitalism and modern economics work and it's one of the reasons we have poverty in the world and 1/4 of the people on the planet are overweight and suffering from type 1 or 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes, while the remaining people starve to death.

Modern economics where the rich can afford medical care, dental care, education and all the food they want, including enough to throw some away, but the poor don't even have electricity to run a light bulb at night or a decent meal each day.

A lot of crime is caused by modern economics. Poor people want basic things like a television, food, whatever, and they can't afford it so they commit crimes. They are often treated as outcasts and ignored by governments. Many poor people have higher rates of incarceration compared to rich people due to lack of education and lack of money to afford the best lawyers to get them out of trouble when they get into it.

A lot of poor women get abused and live in crappy relationships because they aren't educated and are expected to marry at the age of 12. This is modern economics at work.

Modern economics where first world countries like the USA, UK, Germany, Australia and all the other countries with modern conveniences and cars are destroying the planet simply because they have money and want more money. Meanwhile the poor people are dying on the street because fossil fuel powered machines that are used by richer people have screwed up the planet and caused the temperature to rise, the rainfall to either increase or decrease in the area, and major changes to the environment and weather patterns to occur.

Modern economics where companies can make and sell carcinogenic chemicals for agriculture and those chemicals are on our food and in our waterways. And governments allow them to sell those chemicals instead of banning them. Why, maybe the odd deep pocket handshake with political allies?

Modern economics causes war, famine, and death to the poor. The average and poor person on this planet are still slaves to rich people. The only difference is in most cases, they get to go home at the end of the day and live with their family when not working for the rich people. They also don't get whipped in the richer countries but do in poorer countries.

Modern economics where rich people clear land and destroy habitat that animals live in and this catfish is an example of that. The land was in danger of being cleared for farming and it got protected but the fish is still threatened in the wild, as are all wild animals, birds, plants, insects and reptiles. All because of modern economics. We must make as much money as possible by raping the Earth.

Modern economics where gun clubs and billionaire families can dictate government policy. Where companies have more money and power than governments and are above the law. One of those people is currently running for political office and he committed treason but has never been charged for it.

Modern economics where certain western governments interfere with other poorer countries and help put certain people into power so the western country can get resources from that country at a discounted rate. These governments are also regularly involved in wars caused by their interference. Most wars around the world are caused by modern economics and people wanting power and resources.

Modern economics whereby everyone wants more and more money. You can't have infinite exponential growth in anything because eventually you run out of resources and the system collapses. Most western countries are in a global recession currently and this is not the first time. It happens regularly because of capitalism and modern economics. About the only thing holding up economies currently is their war footing, manufacturing, selling, supplying weapons to other countries. Or in the case of Australia, our government decided to bring in millions of immigrants to artificially buffer the economy so we didn't go into a recession. The average person here is in a recession but on paper the immigrants stopped the economy going into recession. The immigrants forced hundreds of thousands of people onto the streets and they are now homeless, and it pushed up the price of housing here. So now we need more money just to pay the rent to the rich people who continue increasing the price of rent just because they can. Covid19 caused the price of everything to go up as well.

Modern economics has destroyed this planet and whilst some people might think that is fine, I don't. There will be no equality among people until everyone has the same rights, education, living standards, food and the right to life. There will be no equality until the poor get the same special treatment as the super rich, and the rich are held accountable for their actions when they break the law, destroy habitat that is home to other species, encourage wars, or generally ruin the planet because they don't care about the ground they live on. They only care about how much money they can make this financial year. And that is what's wrong with modern economics.
 
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To my knowledge all Corydoras catfish are sexually mature and capable of breeding at 2 years of age and many can breed when 1 year old. The females also produce more than 6-15 eggs and many females shed 50+ eggs per spawning.

Companies like Aquarium Glaser know how to breed fish and Corydoras aren't hard to breed. The fish are well fed and looked after. When they are in breeding condition a group of 6-10 fish are put in an aquarium and a massive water change is done with cold water. The next day the fish have bred. It's not rocket science.



I know how capitalism and modern economics work and it's one of the reasons we have poverty in the world and 1/4 of the people on the planet are overweight and suffering from type 1 or 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes, while the remaining people starve to death.

Modern economics where the rich can afford medical care, dental care, education and all the food they want, including enough to throw some away, but the poor don't even have electricity to run a light bulb at night or a decent meal each day.

A lot of crime is caused by modern economics. Poor people want basic things like a television, food, whatever, and they can't afford it so they commit crimes. They are often treated as outcasts and ignored by governments. Many poor people have higher rates of incarceration compared to rich people due to lack of education and lack of money to afford the best lawyers to get them out of trouble when they get into it.

A lot of poor women get abused and live in crappy relationships because they aren't educated and are expected to marry at the age of 12. This is modern economics at work.

Modern economics where first world countries like the USA, UK, Germany, Australia and all the other countries with modern conveniences and cars are destroying the planet simply because they have money and want more money. Meanwhile the poor people are dying on the street because fossil fuel powered machines that are used by richer people have screwed up the planet and caused the temperature to rise, the rainfall to either increase or decrease in the area, and major changes to the environment and weather patterns to occur.

Modern economics where companies can make and sell carcinogenic chemicals for agriculture and those chemicals are on our food and in our waterways. And governments allow them to sell those chemicals instead of banning them. Why, maybe the odd deep pocket handshake with political allies?

Modern economics causes war, famine, and death to the poor. The average and poor person on this planet are still slaves to rich people. The only difference is in most cases, they get to go home at the end of the day and live with their family when not working for the rich people. They also don't get whipped in the richer countries but do in poorer countries.

Modern economics where rich people clear land and destroy habitat that animals live in and this catfish is an example of that. The land was in danger of being cleared for farming and it got protected but the fish is still threatened in the wild, as are all wild animals, birds, plants, insects and reptiles. All because of modern economics. We must make as much money as possible by raping the Earth.

Modern economics where gun clubs and billionaire families can dictate government policy. Where companies have more money and power than governments and are above the law. One of those people is currently running for political office and he committed treason but has never been charged for it.

Modern economics where certain western governments interfere with other poorer countries and help put certain people into power so the western country can get resources from that country at a discounted rate. These governments are also regularly involved in wars caused by their interference. Most wars around the world are caused by modern economics and people wanting power and resources.

Modern economics whereby everyone wants more and more money. You can't have infinite exponential growth in anything because eventually you run out of resources and the system collapses. Most western countries are in a global recession currently and this is not the first time. It happens regularly because of capitalism and modern economics. About the only thing holding up economies currently is their war footing, manufacturing, selling, supplying weapons to other countries. Or in the case of Australia, our government decided to bring in millions of immigrants to artificially buffer the economy so we didn't go into a recession. The average person here is in a recession but on paper the immigrants stopped the economy going into recession. The immigrants forced hundreds of thousands of people onto the streets and they are now homeless, and it pushed up the price of housing here. So now we need more money just to pay the rent to the rich people who continue increasing the price of rent just because they can. Covid19 caused the price of everything to go up as well.

Modern economics has destroyed this planet and whilst some people might think that is fine, I don't. There will be no equality among people until everyone has the same rights, education, living standards, food and the right to life. There will be no equality until the poor get the same special treatment as the super rich, and the rich are held accountable for their actions when they break the law, destroy habitat that is home to other species, encourage wars, or generally ruin the planet because they don't care about the ground they live on. They only care about how much money they can make this financial year. And that is what's wrong with modern economics.








whats with the political diatribe? We're talking about cost of fish here and how specific fish can be more costly due to certain basic economic principles that you obviously have a problem with. Cant afford them why is that someone elses fault? Everything i laid out in my last post were all more than valid reasons why these fish cost what they do and generally well accepted by 99% of fish keepers. Its easy to say these fish breed easy, you do X/Y/Z & theyll breed but do you have experience breeding these CW111's yourself or is this just from your experience breeding other corys? Everything ive read maintains these are difficult to breed, they produce between 15-30 eggs with some reports of up to 100 eggs. Gentelman on planet catfish claims he got them to breed just like you said with a 90% water change at a cooler temp and they continued to breed weekly like that. Many others reported difficulty in breeding. Personally i dont have a clue because i havent kept these fish.


Theres nothing wrong with making a buck regardless of how you feel about it. Sounds more to me like you're upset because you can't afford some fish you'd like to keep, I mean thats kind of my take on your aggressive attitude "I'm right you're wrong" stuff and "the world's not fair". There's no such thing as equality and there never will be so being mad at the rich/capitalism isn't gonna make the cost of fish you like go down or help you to feel better. Differences of opinion are the foundation of good conversation but delivery is everything and seems your delivery for lack of a better term sucks sometimes. This isn't the 1st time I've read something written by you that's offended someone, I can be guilty of that myself from time to time so I get it. You've got a lot of knowledge to offer and it's been beneficial for me on a few occasions but when you start making people feel unwelcome maybe it's time to dial it back or take a break. I mean you're averaging 2500 posts a year..

I feel strongly about my methods as they have worked well for me but there are a couple reputable breeders I talk to that disagree with some of them. That's OK with me because at the end of the day we are friends, can agree to disagree like adults and keep the peace. There are few absolutes in this game and many ways to skin a cat
 
I have some pretty strong opinions on what is being posted .... I will just say equity is an impossible dream in an unfair world. I wonder if the fry I just watched get swallowed by an Angel might agree if given the opportunity.

I'll say no more and am actually disappointed that this conversation is taking place here. Plenty of left and right places for this type of discussion.
 
Before you criticize any seller, bear in mind the only reason any seller should definitely be avoided is if they are dishonest. Are Dan's $2,500 corys not what they are being sold as? Are there any hidden charges or conditions? And then what if you buy them and he sends them overnight and they get lost or otherwise delayed in transit and are DOAs through no fault of his?" I am sure he guarantees klve arrival? But really, how many posting or even reading this would be lining up to buy those fish for half that price and do so having no intention of trying to spawn them? If I were younger and I was a cory nut instead of a B&W pleco one, I could manage to buy them all. So lets assume for a minute that I am a cory nut.

There is only one reason I can think of not to buy them all if one can afford that kind of money and is very sure they can get them spawning. That reason is they are all one sex. Since Dan is selling them "unsexed" I would not buy them without proof there are at least 2 females and 3 males at that price. My guess is this would not be the case. If they are so rare that only a small number are in the hands of one breeder, why would they let out both sexes so somebody else could be competition.

If you by all 5 for $12,500 and get one spawn where you can raise just 10 of them to selling size, you can sell them for $1,250 each and break even. Anything after that would be gravy. Or you keep and grow the 1st 10 to make sure you have future potential spawners. Then you can sell the next 10.
 
My experience with Dan has been very positive. It has been pointed out in this thread that Dan’s overhead is higher than many shops for a variety of reasons not to mention his commitment to long term quarantine. However, Dan is very reasonable on shipping. I can buy a small box of fish from Dan shipped to me overnight for $40. While the wet spot, Live Fish Direct, Aquaclarity and other fish houses have excellent and cheaper fish, they charge somewhere between $55 and $58 to ship a small box of fish. As my grandmother used to say, for money, you get honey. Wealthy people are always at an advantage. I do not begrudge them if they acquired their wealth honestly.
 
Just a disclaimer. I think Dan's is awesome and hope no one thinks i was trying to disparage his business. I've picked up some fish from him in the past and they were in top notch health exactly what I was expecting. I've watched his videos on YouTube how he processes his incoming shipments of fish and how he medicates and quarantines them before he makes them available to the public. He runs a tight ship and offers a quality product which justifies his prices. I'm thankful we still have places like Dan's and other fish stores
 
@CassCats ill say the same thing I said to Magnum the other day, this place needs people like you. Forums are a relic in today's day and age. Don't let a disagreement keep you from those of us who appreciate what you bring to the table. We don't always agree and have differences of opinion but you're a quality contributor who holds value here that I can appreciate and others have to feel the same.


I appreciate this comment.

Unfortunately I've been constantly targeted on various threads any time I've offered advice or anything since I've come back and have tried to help others and I've reached my tolerance of it. Can't help anyone if someone breathes down my neck every time I try. So I'm done. Thanks for what you said here, it makes it sting a bit less. I'm not compatible with the only guru allowed to give others advice, so it's better for the forum that I spend my valuable time elsewhere.


@Magnum Man this wasn't your fault. You meant to open a fun thread. My original comment was even supposed to engage in part of that fun conversation, but someone has an issue with anything I say, but that's his doing that ruined this thread, not you.
 
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