Will My Tank Be Overstocked?

[MadCatter]

Thanks for the volume calculator link, I had just assumed that when people talked about how much water thier tanks hold, they actually meant how much water was in it, not how much water the tank held when empty and filled to the brim, I shall change my profile to say 88lt.

As it turns out I can't get a puffer anway, probably wont be able to get the Rams either, which is probably a good thing as my water is quite hard, I've had another look at the list of stat's I've made and I'd actually forgotten to write in that parameter on the Rams! I have a table in Word that I use to fill in the stat's on the fish I like. Wont make that mistake again, I'm sick of people having a go at me!

I will be euthenaising the Neon's in clove oil rather than have them suffer, as I do not want anymore the LFS wont take them back and I have noone to give them to (see other post).

Yes I made a poor choice of tank mates, but I'd like to defend myself, by saying at that time I just didn't know, like a lot of people I thought, tank + water + fish = aquarium! The LFS simply sold me the tank, the fish I pointed at and some food and that was it! Needless to say I haven't been back there, I now go somewhere else. When I got home with everyone I decided I wanted to know a little more about the fish I'd bought and started searching the web, I was horrified when I found out what I'd done, but I managed to keep everyone alive while the tank cycled by doing lots of tests and water changes to keep the amonia and nitrite levels at zero. Luckily enough the tank came with water conditioner, and I heated some of the water prior to putting it in the tank too bring it up to temperature.

I am doing all I can to keep the mis-matched fish I already have happy and I'm trying to make informed choices with stocking it, but I'm finding that most of the responses I get tend to be quite negative which I'm finding disappointing.

As for making sure that my Bee gets enough to eat, I put flakes in the top of the tank, which everyone else goes for straight away, while their busy with the flakes I drop the bloodworms infront of the Bee's cave, that way he gets plenty to eat before the Molly scoffs the lot!

Given the flack I'm getting about the Bee's I wont get anymore. I'll look into the Kribensis. I'm not too sure about the catfish now either.

Nobody's said anything about the Gourami, should I get another one of them maybe?

I apologize for sounding harsh in my post as well. The reason people tend to get aggressive is because most are very passionate about this hobby, and the lives of fish. Sometimes we get a little overly passionate because we want to protect what we believe in and care for, and we don't always take into account that the other person was just a victim of ignorance. There are so many people who ask questons, and then immediately jump into a defensive attitude when they are told not to do something or keep a certain type of fish, that the more experienced fish keeper tends to get aggressive towards them because they don't want the fish to end up being killed due to stubbornness.

As for the volume of your tank, yes, it's true that you technically have less water due to ornaments, etc, but for ease of conversation, as well as consistency, the amount of water in your tank will simply just be the amount your tank can potentially hold when there is only water (no rocks, plants, etc) inside the tank. It would be too much of a hassle to figure out dosing, stocking, etc, if every person was to count up their specific amount of water.

I would also suggest talking to your LFS about taking any unwanted fish. Make sure you let them know you'll give them for free. It's much better than euthanizing them. It's very depressing to euthanize them as well I had to euthanize my little female betta, Spieglein, today due to the incurable Dropsy.

 

[Jozlyn]

Ok, I'm not a he I'm a she!

And I can't get a Puffer because they are just too ridiculously expensive, I also haven't bought the Rams I've put in an order and I still don't know if I'll be able to get them!

To date, I've never moaned about anything and do not intend to, I simply ask questions.

I use the term LFS loosely, it's over 100km's from where I live!

I have done enough research on Neon's to know that I do not want anymore, I am perfectly aware of what a "Shoal" is, however when I purchased them originaly the LFS did not tell me they needed to be in a shoal and at that time I did not know! The LFS will not take them (or the Mollie) back and I have no-one to give them to, as a last resort and to keep you happy, I will euthenaise them in some clove oil!

So, the Kribnesis is still an option!

And again as far as the Goby is concerned I have done a lot of research on this lovely little fish, both on this web site and others. And, according to this web site and others they can live perfectly happy, long lives in lightly salted water!

I'd also like to add that perhaps you might like take a bit more time on your responses, I can't see your face or hear your words to garner their intent, but I have to say that I feel the tone of your response to be pretty insulting and denegrating, particularily your "Note" at the end. I really don't think that that is the intent of this forum.

no need to get snappy. you asked, you got replies. and as for your last paragraph, you are being snappier than anyone else on the forum. you asked and they gave you their honest opinion. and for euthanizing fish because you don't "want" them - that's terrible! absolutley terrible.

Well what on earth can I do with them then? As I said the not so LFS wont take them back, I have noone to give them too, and everyone keeps telling me how unhappy they are, what else can I do?

 

[Jozlyn]

I will be euthenaising the Neon's in clove oil rather than have them suffer, as I do not want anymore the LFS wont take them back and I have noone to give them to (see other post).

i think that's crueler than keeping them. killing them for no reason? it would be better to take them back to that LFS.

They WONT take them! I don't know what else to do with them, I don't want them to die a slow an awful death!

 

[Jozlyn]

Thanks for the volume calculator link, I had just assumed that when people talked about how much water thier tanks hold, they actually meant how much water was in it, not how much water the tank held when empty and filled to the brim, I shall change my profile to say 88lt.

As it turns out I can't get a puffer anway, probably wont be able to get the Rams either, which is probably a good thing as my water is quite hard, I've had another look at the list of stat's I've made and I'd actually forgotten to write in that parameter on the Rams! I have a table in Word that I use to fill in the stat's on the fish I like. Wont make that mistake again, I'm sick of people having a go at me!

I will be euthenaising the Neon's in clove oil rather than have them suffer, as I do not want anymore the LFS wont take them back and I have noone to give them to (see other post).

Yes I made a poor choice of tank mates, but I'd like to defend myself, by saying at that time I just didn't know, like a lot of people I thought, tank + water + fish = aquarium! The LFS simply sold me the tank, the fish I pointed at and some food and that was it! Needless to say I haven't been back there, I now go somewhere else. When I got home with everyone I decided I wanted to know a little more about the fish I'd bought and started searching the web, I was horrified when I found out what I'd done, but I managed to keep everyone alive while the tank cycled by doing lots of tests and water changes to keep the amonia and nitrite levels at zero. Luckily enough the tank came with water conditioner, and I heated some of the water prior to putting it in the tank too bring it up to temperature.

I am doing all I can to keep the mis-matched fish I already have happy and I'm trying to make informed choices with stocking it, but I'm finding that most of the responses I get tend to be quite negative which I'm finding disappointing.

As for making sure that my Bee gets enough to eat, I put flakes in the top of the tank, which everyone else goes for straight away, while their busy with the flakes I drop the bloodworms infront of the Bee's cave, that way he gets plenty to eat before the Molly scoffs the lot!

Given the flack I'm getting about the Bee's I wont get anymore. I'll look into the Kribensis. I'm not too sure about the catfish now either.

Nobody's said anything about the Gourami, should I get another one of them maybe?

I apologize for sounding harsh in my post as well. The reason people tend to get aggressive is because most are very passionate about this hobby, and the lives of fish. Sometimes we get a little overly passionate because we want to protect what we believe in and care for, and we don't always take into account that the other person was just a victim of ignorance. There are so many people who ask questons, and then immediately jump into a defensive attitude when they are told not to do something or keep a certain type of fish, that the more experienced fish keeper tends to get aggressive towards them because they don't want the fish to end up being killed due to stubbornness.

As for the volume of your tank, yes, it's true that you technically have less water due to ornaments, etc, but for ease of conversation, as well as consistency, the amount of water in your tank will simply just be the amount your tank can potentially hold when there is only water (no rocks, plants, etc) inside the tank. It would be too much of a hassle to figure out dosing, stocking, etc, if every person was to count up their specific amount of water.

I would also suggest talking to your LFS about taking any unwanted fish. Make sure you let them know you'll give them for free. It's much better than euthanizing them. It's very depressing to euthanize them as well I had to euthanize my little female betta, Spieglein, today due to the incurable Dropsy.

I'm so sorry that must be just awful for you, did you use Clove oil, it's supposed to send them gently off to sleep like an anesthetic.

I simply don't know what else to do with the Neon's, I don't want to spend any more money on buying more, and the LFS just wont take them back. I do know one other person that has a fish tank but I wouldn't give them to her as she simply refuses to learn anything at all about her fish and just keeps replacing them as they die. I don't want my fish to be unhappy. I love my fish. But I can't help that I didn't know anything about them when I bought them.

 

[Jozlyn]

although you do seem bound and determined to do it your own way, please don't add the Figure 8 puffer. "a bit of salt" is not a brackish environment and is insufficient for the long-term care of the fish.

also, if you have hard water, then the bumblebees would be ok but in that case, you should avoid the german rams. rams really just don't do well at all except in fairly soft, acidic water. ditto for neons, but you don't seem too fussed about those anyways.

how's this sound for a final stocklist? this would be for a hardwater aquarium.

4 Bumble Bee Goby
4 Guppies
4 Dalmation Molly
1 Bristlenose catfish
1 Kribensis cichlid

if you don't put effort into saving the liverbearer babies, then most of them will get eaten.

whatever you do, don't keep more than one kribensis! in a small tank like yours, two kribs of the same gender will kill each other; two kribs of different genders would mate and kill all the other fish. but kribensis are perfectly happy living by themselves and can be quite pretty. females are generally more colorful, smaller and less aggressive, so you'll want to get one of those. but only one!

also, please note that bristlenose catfish will not each poop and need more food than just the tiny bit of algae that *might* start to grow. so if you get one, you'll need to also buy algae wafers to feed it. good news, though: all the other fish will like algae wafers too!

bumblebee gobies can be a bit difficult to keep fed, so (unless you've kept yours alive for 3 months) you might want to pass on getting any more. of course, having a bunch of livebearers in the tank would help with that since all fish love to eat fry.

I've started researching the Kribensis Cichlid and the first article I've read says:

"Tankmates: Mix with other dwarf cichlids or similarly sized fish. Barbs and tetras are good tankmates. Avoid slow moving fish such as Angelfish and Gouramis. Guppies are a delicacy. Kribensis may also nip at fish with long fins. If the tank is small, avoid tank mates that are bottom dwellers that may compete for space and territory."

Is it going to eat my Guppies? Fight over floor space with my Bee? And get cranky at my Gourami because it moves too slow?

 

[MadCatter]

Perhaps you should just hang on to the fish you have now. you could always add a couple cories, and make sure you keep the tank plenty clean all the time. Everybody gets along with cories, and they're friendly, and funny to watch.


Since you can't really add much of anything else to your tank without causing problems with your other fish, just hold on to the Neons.

 

[Dutchie]

Could'nt agree more MadCatter..........

Keep what you have and enjoy them............eventually you will need to slowly restock due to any number of reasons.........

 

[idlefingers]

I agree. I'm a novice myself, so don't really know, but I'd imagine the neons, even in smaller numbers will not be just dying a slow death, but not as happy as they would be with more buddies.

I don't think you should euthanise healthy fish. Seems meaner than keeping them in the tank in small numbers, but what do I know?

 

[Dutchie]

And here I was thinking euthenasia were Children playing in China !!!...............

For those now wondering 'what the hell'...........Youth in Asia.........get it?

 

[pica_nuttalli]

although you do seem bound and determined to do it your own way, please don't add the Figure 8 puffer. "a bit of salt" is not a brackish environment and is insufficient for the long-term care of the fish.

also, if you have hard water, then the bumblebees would be ok but in that case, you should avoid the german rams. rams really just don't do well at all except in fairly soft, acidic water. ditto for neons, but you don't seem too fussed about those anyways.

how's this sound for a final stocklist? this would be for a hardwater aquarium.

4 Bumble Bee Goby
4 Guppies
4 Dalmation Molly
1 Bristlenose catfish
1 Kribensis cichlid

if you don't put effort into saving the liverbearer babies, then most of them will get eaten.

whatever you do, don't keep more than one kribensis! in a small tank like yours, two kribs of the same gender will kill each other; two kribs of different genders would mate and kill all the other fish. but kribensis are perfectly happy living by themselves and can be quite pretty. females are generally more colorful, smaller and less aggressive, so you'll want to get one of those. but only one!

also, please note that bristlenose catfish will not each poop and need more food than just the tiny bit of algae that *might* start to grow. so if you get one, you'll need to also buy algae wafers to feed it. good news, though: all the other fish will like algae wafers too!

bumblebee gobies can be a bit difficult to keep fed, so (unless you've kept yours alive for 3 months) you might want to pass on getting any more. of course, having a bunch of livebearers in the tank would help with that since all fish love to eat fry.

I've started researching the Kribensis Cichlid and the first article I've read says:

"Tankmates: Mix with other dwarf cichlids or similarly sized fish. Barbs and tetras are good tankmates. Avoid slow moving fish such as Angelfish and Gouramis. Guppies are a delicacy. Kribensis may also nip at fish with long fins. If the tank is small, avoid tank mates that are bottom dwellers that may compete for space and territory."

Is it going to eat my Guppies? Fight over floor space with my Bee? And get cranky at my Gourami because it moves too slow?

in my experience, kribs are generally well-behaved so long as they aren't breeding. problem is, they breed almost at the drop of a hat. but if you can't get rid of "problem fish", then you should probably avoid all of the cichlid species unless you have the capacity (seee: liquid cash) to set-up new tanks at a moment's notice.

let's see... why is it again that you don't like neons? if it's just that their "water needs are too narrow" but you still like how they look, then don't worry about it. most common fish can handle a wider range of conditions than would be strictly found in the wild. this is why they are common. so long as you have an established tank and you don't buy neons that are already sick, then you just need water with low to moderate hardness and a ph of 6-8. keep up with your water changes and things should be fine.

don't get another dwarf gourami. they're territorial and two will fight in a small tank like yours.

also, please read around in these topics about bumblebee gobies.

and FYI, y'all: bumblebee gobies aren't strictly brackish and "brackish" water means more than just H20 with NaCl. go play in the brackish forum to learn more.

 

[LisaLQ]

I'd avoid the bristlenose (or indeed any plec), the salt water will in the long term severely damage it's health. Plecs + salt do not mix in anything other than emergency health issues situations. Couple of days with a very low level of salt wont kill, a lifetime will.

 

[DarkEntity]

I have ordered a pair of Rams ie one male and one female. "

Hence my reply that Kribs arent an option



No one here is trying to be rude or nasty, but you have to understand some of us have been keeping Tropicals for a long time and when someone comes on asks for advice, then spits the dummy out becuase they dont get the answer they want to hear, it does get your back up. Also with a tank as small as yours, you are pretty limited for what to keep.

 

[Jozlyn]

Thankyou to everyone for your input and advice.

I have decided not to get the plec, I think 12cm will be too big for a tank as small as mine. Given that my Molly will also grow to around 12cm.

I will not be getting another Gourami as I found out via another web site (yesterday) that you should only keep one and Pica also mentioned this fact above.

I am going to get a couple more guppies and leave it at that for the time being. They are small and very colourful and a great deal of fun to watch. I also found out via a different website that they should be kept in groups of four or more.

As far as my tank goes, I do a weekly 25% water change, via the gravel filter/cleaner thingy. My amonia and nitrites are 0, my Ph hovers just over 7 and I keep the temperature between 25 - 26C, acording to my research this is a happy medium for everyone 9except for the Neon's). All of my fish appear happy and come over to the side of the tank to greet me when I feed them.

And yes, I did "spit the dummy" over the Neons because I felt that I didn't get any useful advice, and I felt that I was being abused for having bought them in the first place. As stated earlier, I simply didn't know and it wasn't until I did some research on the fish that I found out my mistake. I was able to get an average for water temperature, hardness, ph etc that all of the other fish would fit into, no, not their "ideal" but within each fishes tolerances, I couldn't fit the Neon's into the "average" at all, everything was too high or too low for them, that's why I don't want anymore, as I don't wish to put anymore Neon's under stress. I do however, think that they're a lovely looking little fish with their bright red and blue stripes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't jump to conclusions when responding to people, we're often the victims of the LFS making money out of our ignorance. We don't love our fish any less than any of you and we're simply trying to make the best of the difficult situation we find ourselves in. We're no less passionate about our fish than you, that's how we find these sites, because we want to know more. That's why we ask our questions in the "Beginners" section, it's because we are beginners.

When returning fish is not an option and giving them away is not an option, what can you do? You try to make the best of the situation and being critical is of no help, it just makes the recipient of the response feel angry, like it did with me.

Cheers, Jozlyn

although you do seem bound and determined to do it your own way, please don't add the Figure 8 puffer. "a bit of salt" is not a brackish environment and is insufficient for the long-term care of the fish.

also, if you have hard water, then the bumblebees would be ok but in that case, you should avoid the german rams. rams really just don't do well at all except in fairly soft, acidic water. ditto for neons, but you don't seem too fussed about those anyways.

how's this sound for a final stocklist? this would be for a hardwater aquarium.

4 Bumble Bee Goby
4 Guppies
4 Dalmation Molly
1 Bristlenose catfish
1 Kribensis cichlid

if you don't put effort into saving the liverbearer babies, then most of them will get eaten.

whatever you do, don't keep more than one kribensis! in a small tank like yours, two kribs of the same gender will kill each other; two kribs of different genders would mate and kill all the other fish. but kribensis are perfectly happy living by themselves and can be quite pretty. females are generally more colorful, smaller and less aggressive, so you'll want to get one of those. but only one!

also, please note that bristlenose catfish will not each poop and need more food than just the tiny bit of algae that *might* start to grow. so if you get one, you'll need to also buy algae wafers to feed it. good news, though: all the other fish will like algae wafers too!

bumblebee gobies can be a bit difficult to keep fed, so (unless you've kept yours alive for 3 months) you might want to pass on getting any more. of course, having a bunch of livebearers in the tank would help with that since all fish love to eat fry.

I've started researching the Kribensis Cichlid and the first article I've read says:

"Tankmates: Mix with other dwarf cichlids or similarly sized fish. Barbs and tetras are good tankmates. Avoid slow moving fish such as Angelfish and Gouramis. Guppies are a delicacy. Kribensis may also nip at fish with long fins. If the tank is small, avoid tank mates that are bottom dwellers that may compete for space and territory."

Is it going to eat my Guppies? Fight over floor space with my Bee? And get cranky at my Gourami because it moves too slow?

in my experience, kribs are generally well-behaved so long as they aren't breeding. problem is, they breed almost at the drop of a hat. but if you can't get rid of "problem fish", then you should probably avoid all of the cichlid species unless you have the capacity (seee: liquid cash) to set-up new tanks at a moment's notice.

let's see... why is it again that you don't like neons? if it's just that their "water needs are too narrow" but you still like how they look, then don't worry about it. most common fish can handle a wider range of conditions than would be strictly found in the wild. this is why they are common. so long as you have an established tank and you don't buy neons that are already sick, then you just need water with low to moderate hardness and a ph of 6-8. keep up with your water changes and things should be fine.

don't get another dwarf gourami. they're territorial and two will fight in a small tank like yours.

also, please read around in these topics about bumblebee gobies.

and FYI, y'all: bumblebee gobies aren't strictly brackish and "brackish" water means more than just H20 with NaCl. go play in the brackish forum to learn more.

Thank you

 

[corey01]

sorry but thats not acceptable! you cant euthinise your neon just becuase you dont want him! thats awful! come on ppl tell her some sence! help! im not being snappy or rude im just saying that wrong!

 

[Jozlyn]

sorry but thats not acceptable! you cant euthinise your neon just becuase you dont want him! thats awful! come on ppl tell her some sence! help! im not being snappy or rude im just saying that wrong!

This post is over 3 months old! Why'd you jump on the band-wagon now?

Just FYI I did not euthenaise the 2 Neon's, I got another tank and upped the Neon's to 8, unfortunately they appear to have the incurable Neon Tetra Disease and I've had 3 die over the last 5 days.

As for the euthenasia issue, 3 months ago it appeared, at that time, to be my only option, however I was able to get my hands on a tank which solved all my problems.

Everyone has differing opinions on the issue of euthenaisa, trying to incite people to tell me I'm wrong, simply because you disageree with me, wont change my mind about it. It's not pleasant, but their are times when it is the only option available, look at all the cats and dogs that are "put to sleep" on a daily basis by pounds etc, because they can't find homes for them (sound familiar???), horses "put down" by organisations like the RSPCA due to malnutrition or maltreatment, people who take their pets to the vet to be "put to sleep" because they are old, unwell or unwanted.......or just dump them in the bush, to die or decimate a native animal population..........

You know, if you really feel so strongly about it, why don't you start a new poll thread and see what other board users opions are? You might be surprised!

Anyway that's my 10 cents worth, as far as I'm concerned this issue is closed.