Why Isn't The Message Getting Through?

[MBOU]

Trouble is, selling mature media isnt a guaranteed way of creating a mature tank and if a shop implicated that it does or even 'should' and something goes wrong... the shop will be liable...

Also, its not a great idea to be selling media off a system that is exposed to so many fish from so many different suppliers and treated regularly with different treatments...

You run the potential risks if say... if a treatment like Malachite is used regularly (which it is and is base ingredient in medications like protozin and myxazin etc) but it is also a form of copper,.... what if the customer planned/already had shrimps and it ended up killing them all?

What if someones fish got sick? Could be a complete coincidence but do you think they will care? Doubtfull... it will still come down on the shop every time something goes wrong and in retail... you have to consider every eventuality of what might go wrong when weighing up the pros and cons because you can guarantee it will happen.

It also relies on shops giving up selling space for media to be put on the system as it cant be put in most of the filters as generally the systems are run on enclosed bubblebead or sandbed (swimming pool) filters or aerobic/anaerobic filter beds that can't have sponges etc put in them but the media cant keep being removed and isnt suitable for going in internal or external filters as it floats and is small enough to screw up filters (can you see that coming down as being shops fault as well and having to pay out to replace a filter?!)

 

[KCB]

if the LFS, gave or even sold mature media that would be a step forward in my eyes

What a million dollar idea! Think of how much more money the LFS would make and how much heart ache it would save? It's a win-win for everybody so why has no one else done this? You could breed good bacteria using the good 'ole fishless cycle method, that way there'd be no contamination from medications etc.

 

[MBOU]

Then the shop has to set up and maintain a whole new system just for media to set customers up because they cant be bothered to do some research and cycle the tank?

Then you get the costs of:

-the mature media
-the set up cost of a new system/tank/filter etc
-the cost for the electricity to run it
-staff to take time out of their day looking after fish and serving customers and maintaining fish tanks to keep it running and clean

plus it takes up valuable space that few shops have just 'going spare'. Bear in mind that what might look likespare space in shops often isnt with laws on how wide isles have to be, hidden taps and pipes etc under floorboards and tiles, access to storage of moving stock etc....

That mature media sure wont come cheap...

 

[Mikey1]

i hate to say it and its unfortunate but abuse happens to all animals and/or pets....the percentage of people who really care for, and take care of their pets properly is probably well below 50%....

i dont think anybody has the right to be upset about how animals are treated unless they are a vegetarian

 

[ColR1948]

So you say the shop can't or won't give/sell media but they sell stuff that is supposed to be a safe start for the filter and even tell people it is safe to add fish, I have actually heard a shop keeper tell someone this.

 

[CezzaXV]

i hate to say it and its unfortunate but abuse happens to all animals and/or pets....the percentage of people who really care for, and take care of their pets properly is probably well below 50%....

i dont think anybody has the right to be upset about how animals are treated unless they are a vegetarian

I'm not vegetarian, I LOVE meat, but that's not to say I believe it's acceptable for animals to be treated horribly up until the moment of their death.

FM mentioned it earlier, but the Maidenhead Aquatics in Plymouth sells mature media, and I'm sure it can't be the only place. I saw it and thought it was a brilliant idea, and only wish I'd known about it when I was cycling. Now, there is the issue of medicines etc in the water, but I suppose you could get around that by having it in a standalone system. Even if you didn't, I suspect it would save more fish than it would potentially harm.

I know it's necessary for some shops to survive, but I'm not sure I could morally sell a fish to someone if I wasn't sure it was going to a good home.

I was one of those naive fishkeepers in the beginning. Thought I'd get a goldfish in a bowl because it would be cool. None of the leaflets I picked up at the LFS mentioned cycling. Hell, I was looking at a 28L tank to begin with and asked the shopkeeper how many goldfish I could keep in it and he told me three! Thank God I didn't just read the leaflets and came online to look it up.

 

[ColR1948]

@CezzaXV, the same shop not far from doesn't supply media, I asked a while ago during a conversation with the lady who works there, so yours might be a one off.

 

[fluttermoth]

As I've said before, the MA in Plymouth sells mature media (bioballs) for 1p. It's in a separate tank that they dose with a little ammonia daily.

 

[ColR1948]

I was just on the phone to the MA near me and I spoke to the lady in there with a brief story about this discussion, she said she thought selling mature media was a step forward and is going to have a word with the manger, she said she cared about fish and their welfare and that was a positive step.
I told her the MA name was mentioned on a fish forum and if people saw that they would come to you rather than another shop, she liked that idea, so fingers crossed on that one.



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[the_lock_man]

As I've said before, the MA in Plymouth sells mature media (bioballs) for 1p. It's in a separate tank that they dose with a little ammonia daily.

Presumably per bioball? I have to say I think that's incredibly cheap - they have to account for the ammonia, electricity, staff time to dose, as well as the cost of the bioball itself. I would have thought 20p per ball would not be unreasonable.

 

[CezzaXV]

As I've said before, the MA in Plymouth sells mature media (bioballs) for 1p. It's in a separate tank that they dose with a little ammonia daily.

Presumably per bioball? I have to say I think that's incredibly cheap - they have to account for the ammonia, electricity, staff time to dose, as well as the cost of the bioball itself. I would have thought 20p per ball would not be unreasonable.

They're tiny little plastic pieces. I'd imagine you'd need a good few quid's worth to fill even a small filter.

 

[KCB]

Then the shop has to set up and maintain a whole new system just for media to set customers up because they cant be bothered to do some research and cycle the tank?

Then you get the costs of:

-the mature media
-the set up cost of a new system/tank/filter etc
-the cost for the electricity to run it
-staff to take time out of their day looking after fish and serving customers and maintaining fish tanks to keep it running and clean

plus it takes up valuable space that few shops have just 'going spare'. Bear in mind that what might look likespare space in shops often isnt with laws on how wide isles have to be, hidden taps and pipes etc under floorboards and tiles, access to storage of moving stock etc....

That mature media sure wont come cheap...

It's not whether they can be bothered to research or not, some people are just ignorant. And I don't think it'd take that much money or space, just a small tank being dosed with ammonia. If individual fish keepers can run a fish-less cycle then it'd be pretty easy for an LFS, hell I've been running my fish-less cycle for 3 months! But to be honest, the shop keeper would have to care about animal welfare in the first place, and if they did then they would already be advising their customers to run fish-less cycles. If only fish had more rights, or even animals in general.

 

[ColR1948]

Sorry to keep going on about this but ironically enough I just read on another forum where a well known chain aquatics shop was selling mature media, they were in sealed plastic bags but the poster did say he had a word about them and they said they only do a few at a time because of the bacteria dying off and if they do too many and it doesn't get sold.
The thing is they were doing it, so it can be done and when people read that on a forum who live near by will go there or travel that bit further to go there.

 

[ColR1948]

Was so pleased today after visiting a not so LFS as it is a bit further away but chatting to the owner was great, we talked on the subject of giving mature media away and he said we do that all the time, his answer was great. He said if 3 people come in a buy a tank, filter,heater etc and through not cycling properly and 2 give the hobby up I've lost 2 more customers, so it is in my interest to keep them coming back.
I could have hugged him, just the answer I was hoping for, I'm not sure if I can mention the name but I'm not giving him a bad one, perhaps the Mods will advise me on that.
He also shown me an advice leaflet he hands to all new keepers on the subject of cycling and fishkeeping etc.

 

[fluttermoth]

We're always happy to see the good shops getting a mention; it's only potential libellous 'name and shame' type posts/threads that we can't allow.