White Spot

[mbu man]

why is it and how come,if you have all the right equipment (skimmer,uv......) do reqular water changes and all the water parameters are good, why do some fish get white spot?
my lfs some of the fish have white spot?
is their anyway of never getting it or is it inevertable? (im a poor speller )

 

[Musho3210]

not inevitable, no such thing as a 100% immunity. Its in between. You can lower your chances, but you cannot be sterile against it and have a healthy tank at the same time.

 

[SkiFletch]

not inevitable, no such thing as a 100% immunity. Its in between. You can lower your chances, but you cannot be sterile against it and have a healthy tank at the same time.

Yup. I even took all the precautions you mentioned mbu man, but forgot one thing... Didn't clean my UV sterilizer often enough, thus rendering it ineffective. Might have had a hand in allowing my ich to spread as bad as it did. It's such a complex preventative problem that even the "pros" can get it.

 

[Lynden]

I personally have had MANY fish get crypto (marine ich). Remarkably few of them died of the crypto parasites theselves but upwards of 90% who got it died of secondary infections such as gill flukes or Insalvirides. The latter is a strange, complex disease my niger trigger got that was quite unlike anything I've ever seen or read of so I named it myself, meaning "unwanted iridescence".

The point is that I agree with the above, even the most complex efforts can fail. There is such thing as an ich-free tank, but this takes a long time and a great deal of diligence to accomplish.

 

[Tommy Gun]

Just having gone through a nasty little ich episode in my tank, I can also verify the fact that this is a problem which is very common, but, as already pointed out, the risk can be reduced. Like Ski, I am using 'all of the above' equipment on my tank...including UV, but stupidly turned off a pump one day during some maintenance, forgetting to turn it back on for about three days, which, of course, was the pump pushing water through the UV - apparently this leads to a quick end to the bulb, which I also didnt realize for a few weeks and 'poof', my first marine ich experience.

As Lynden eludes to though, this is a parasite and hence, it is theoretically possible to have a completely 'ich-free' aquarium...although this is much easier to accomplish in a FW tank since marine ich can apparently live much longer without a host - which, by some accounts I have read, probably lends to the myth that Ich is ever-present, no matter what.

Apart from equipment though, the best thing you can do to avoid ich troubles is to do your very best to ensure that your fish are healthy since if they are, they should be able to stave-off the parasite with relative ease. (However, some fish may be more 'at risk' than others...one example may be certain species of tangs - which I can now attest to). Of course, this can mean different things to different people, obviously dependant on the type of fish you have; hence, knowing as much as you can about your is probably the best place to start. The second best place to start, as I was told by one valued friend who is also very involved in the saltwater side of the hobby, is to help yourself by quarantining all new additions to our tanks....with 'all' meaning ALL. While I am sure others may disagree with me, even the addition of a new peice of live rock to your tank can be carrying some of the Ich protozoa, so I was once advised to stop adding live rock to my tank, but instead, start adding base rock (which is also much cheaper). Also, I was told that the same thing can occur when adding new corals....so it may behoove us to quarantine them as well; although that obviously requires some additional funds depending on the lighting requirements. Up until recently, I never quarantined any corals and focused on the keeping my fish healthy aspect and had no problems...in fact, it was a tang (Achillies) which was the only fish I have had die from marine ich - the rest I have been able to nurse through relatively well, but I am not out of the woods yet.

 

[pengy666]

A Uv steriliser isnt the greatest invention out there and to be fair I have seen/ invloved in a debate about them (another forum) I just really only see a ned for them when introducing new stuff to tank and in a QT tank! other than that I dont think its worth the money!

 

[Musho3210]

there good against green water.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

A Uv steriliser isnt the greatest invention out there and to be fair I have seen/ invloved in a debate about them (another forum) I just really only see a ned for them when introducing new stuff to tank and in a QT tank! other than that I dont think its worth the money!

I would have to say this arguement is relative though. If you have a tank for a couple of grands worth of fish in a couple of hundred pound for a uv filter and a few replacment bulbs would (imo) be worthwhile even if it only has minimal effect.

 

[pengy666]

Im not far off a few grand and I dont really have one and to be fair I dont think I will buy one? My QT is a TL-450 which has one? and I would imagine there is more important equipment I would buy long before a UV steriliser?

Not forgetting they kill as much good as they do bad? I really cant see it benefiting against white spot all that much either? yet it may kill it in the water avoiding re infection? Im not sure there tho? But I found Mine had little effect that was noticeable in my nano? Only thing I could say I noticed was there was less critters at night with it?

Just my opinion

 

[Musho3210]

less critters because the UVS wipes out their food, phytoplankton and other micro food. What you do is buy a bottle of phytoplankton, feed the tank and leave the UVS off for a few hours. Skimmer does the exact same thing, skimmerless tanks have more life in them since skimmers remove the primary food source, just like a UVS, just in a different way.

 

[Tommy Gun]

I agree with all of the above...the benifits of UV are more far reaching than just Ich - and for the record, they have no affect on treating the ich when it is in its lifestage when they appear as the actual white spots, so yes, UV is only effective on those protozoa that you cannot see - which lends to the argument that you shouldn't expect to see any difference and this is a good sign. They also are good at preventing the algae and bacteria blooms....took mine off my salty tank to run on my FW tank once and literally overnight an algae bloom was cut in half, if not more (the FW tank was one of mine which is considerably smaller than the SW tank, so overkill is a good description here). So, in retrospect, UV is benificial in prevention more so than it is a 'treatment' of any sort. And I agree...definitely worth the money once selling an aquarium could result in a new car purchase.

I also run my UV 24/7, but like Musho points out, use phytoplankton products to feed my corals, and other creatures of the night. I have not really noticed a negative effect from keeping the UV on before, during and after feeding corals either and have come to beleive that it doesnt really matter if they are alive or dead once the coral gets ahold of them...which is evident in the fact that I have yet to lose any corals to what is apparently being underfed, but I should add that I do spot feed them usually. Perhaps that is a secondary benifit of the nature of UV being such that you want to keep the water flow through them relatively slow, meaning the filter feeders get them before the UV does (again, when spot feeding anyways)

 

[SkiFletch]

If you have a tank for a couple of grands worth of fish in a couple of hundred pound for a uv filter and a few replacment bulbs would (imo) be worthwhile even if it only has minimal effect.

Amen to that.

Just a side note... Make SURE that if you are3 using a UV to clean it every month or two. The inside screens get mighty dirty in there and eliminate the ability of the UV to do its job

 

[mbu man]

ok,so if you have all the equipment and one of your fish gets white spot and you have no qt tank,how do you treat it?
being that a tank will have corals, live rock and anemones?

 

[pengy666]

Imho UV doesnt have that great effect, It may help but not CURE it?

In my experience there isnt much yo can do! feed well dont stress fish and keep params good!

and maybe a UV Filter!

 

[Tommy Gun]

You get a q-tank...doesn't have to be anything expensive, nor does it have to have all sorts of equipment. Perhaps a 10 gallon tank with a decoration that will provide a hiding place or two, and a HOB filter. If you like, you can 'clone' the q-tank by adding some pieces of LR rubble to the filter, but if you are going to be using copper, it is my understanding that will deplete the beneficial bacteria so you would #1, be 'wasting' live rock rubble and #2, doing enough water changes that the tank doesn't really have to be cycled. Don't be fooled, it is a pain in the butt, but that is when prevention becomes the best 'cure'.

Corals and inverts don't do well under hypo salinity treatments as far as I have heard/read (never performed one...intentionally)

From my experience with Ich, which is relatively recent, it may not become fatal as quickly as FW Ich, so you have some time to react (although, faster is better obviously). Additionally, as I think someone else already mentioned, the secondary effects of an Ich 'infestation' can be the larger problem which gives more credence to the q-tank idea because then you can use antibiotics and such with less repercussions to everything in your tank.

IME with Marine Ich, it is much harder to completely eradicate from a tank (versus FW ich) and so treating an entire tank is not always suggested even though it is 'contagious', and of course, not an option when corals and other more sensitive livestock is present. Although, I have used a product called "Ich Attack" in my reef tank and it actually seemed to help out quite a bit with the fish which had only a few white spots and are a bit more resilient to it...meaning I only had to quarantine my tang; which died from another cause.

I dont really have one and to be fair I dont think I will buy one

And perhaps you missed that Pengy666, UV is not a treatment, it is more of a prevention 'tool'. If you haven't had one, how can you have an opinion on how effective they are?

Imho UV doesnt have that great effect, It may help but not CURE it?

In my experience there isnt much yo can do! feed well dont stress fish and keep params good!

and maybe a UV Filter!

I am sure I am just missing the 'gist' of what you are trying to say here...but could you explain what you mean by basically saying "UV is not effective, but get a UV filter"? I just thought it seemed a bit contradictory.