Water changes shouldnt affect the esha exit, if you wc before adding the med and leave it 24 hours before wc and medicate again. However with esha exit it does say not to use other chemicals (dechlorinator) before using the medication, why I do not know. You can still do a wc by leaving the water overnight in a bucket with an airstone running.
White Spot In Uncycled Tank - Best Course Of Action
- Thread starter shrimply
- Start date
Hey again Star,
Thank, I've thoroughly read all the eSHa pages. The reason they suggest not using water conditioners is that it can interfere with the medication and reduce it's strength I believe. I have been leaving water sitting to use in water changes but I'm not 100% certain there isn't chloramine in my water supply, although I don't think there is - no sign of ammonia in the tap water which apparently is a good indicator. I'm nervous about stepping into the unknown and not using water treatments.
Is this advice you've had from them directly or have you read it somewhere? My understanding is that the treatment decays over time, although I don't know how fast. So the half dose on the second day isn't a new dose, as much as topping up the medication, I'd guess to the initial level again. Hence my concerns, if you can confirm I am wrong though that would be great and make my life a whole lot easier.
My eSHa has now arrived, just working out what to do with it.
Good news is that all the fish are still alive and seem active, struggling to see any white spots this morning although there is some flashing behaviour still.
Thanks
Thank, I've thoroughly read all the eSHa pages. The reason they suggest not using water conditioners is that it can interfere with the medication and reduce it's strength I believe. I have been leaving water sitting to use in water changes but I'm not 100% certain there isn't chloramine in my water supply, although I don't think there is - no sign of ammonia in the tap water which apparently is a good indicator. I'm nervous about stepping into the unknown and not using water treatments.
Is this advice you've had from them directly or have you read it somewhere? My understanding is that the treatment decays over time, although I don't know how fast. So the half dose on the second day isn't a new dose, as much as topping up the medication, I'd guess to the initial level again. Hence my concerns, if you can confirm I am wrong though that would be great and make my life a whole lot easier.
My eSHa has now arrived, just working out what to do with it.
Good news is that all the fish are still alive and seem active, struggling to see any white spots this morning although there is some flashing behaviour still.
Thanks
I mailed esha directly when I was treating my dwarf chain loach, I also had shrimp in the tank. Unfortunately I do not know either how long the esha is active for and I also believe the second and third half dose is just a top up, it really does act that fast. When I used it spots started disappearing off the fish within hours, it was amazing. I would mail esha direct they were pretty fast in responding when I mailed them and very helpful.
http
/www.eshalabs.eu/english/contact.html
http
/www.eshalabs.eu/english/contact.htmlThanks, I contacted them yesterday, waiting for a response before I do anything.
To be honest I'm sceptical about the product, I believe it worked for you, and there are lots of other accounts of it working super fast. However, I don't understand how the company can claim, unlike other medications that it targets all the life stages.
The only compound which isn't commonly found in other medications is Ethacridine lactate, And I can't find any literature, academic or otherwise, that suggests this has ever thought to be effective against cilitate parasites. It's only known use seems to be as a antispetic. Which makes me wonder.
I was getting my hopes up prematurely earlier, fish definitely still have spots
To be honest I'm sceptical about the product, I believe it worked for you, and there are lots of other accounts of it working super fast. However, I don't understand how the company can claim, unlike other medications that it targets all the life stages.
The only compound which isn't commonly found in other medications is Ethacridine lactate, And I can't find any literature, academic or otherwise, that suggests this has ever thought to be effective against cilitate parasites. It's only known use seems to be as a antispetic. Which makes me wonder.
I was getting my hopes up prematurely earlier, fish definitely still have spots
I was in the same position as you, I normally use protozin if I have to treat whitespot, but checking I found it was not suitable for loaches. I then found esha exit, and like you after reading the instructions thought "pah, no treatment attacks the parasite while its on the fish". I was pleasantly shocked by the results. However there are instances where it does not work...
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/432448-white-spots-on-clown-loach/
It turned out in this case the ich was not actual ich, but an underlying problem bringing out the symptoms. I have read on another forum, (but due to this forum rules I cannot post you the link, or pm you,) that this is quite often the case with loaches presenting ich like symptoms that are not cured with using medication. The bonus with using esha exit, because it is so fast acting, if the ich does not clear within 3-4 days you can be 99% sure that there is another problem causing these symptoms... and the thread went on to say about poor water quality with clown loaches also bring out these ich like symptoms due to being scaleless and sensitive etc.
I dont know how or why esha exit is so affective on ich, if I had never of used it myself I really wouldnt believe the claims either. It undermines all other information available on the ich only being able to be eradicated during the free swimming stage.
http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/432448-white-spots-on-clown-loach/It turned out in this case the ich was not actual ich, but an underlying problem bringing out the symptoms. I have read on another forum, (but due to this forum rules I cannot post you the link, or pm you,) that this is quite often the case with loaches presenting ich like symptoms that are not cured with using medication. The bonus with using esha exit, because it is so fast acting, if the ich does not clear within 3-4 days you can be 99% sure that there is another problem causing these symptoms... and the thread went on to say about poor water quality with clown loaches also bring out these ich like symptoms due to being scaleless and sensitive etc.
I dont know how or why esha exit is so affective on ich, if I had never of used it myself I really wouldnt believe the claims either. It undermines all other information available on the ich only being able to be eradicated during the free swimming stage.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Just as a thought, you might want to Google "Super Ich". I do not mean API super ich cure. hen also look up "Quinine Sulfate + Ich". a med about which most are not aware.
Here is a start http/www.fishchannel.com/fish-blogs/fish-biz-buzz/2010/06/far-east-super-ich.aspx
and
/www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwichremedyyes.htm
The reason for not mixing salt treatment and med treatments for ich is simple. Most fish do not like or do well with salt but can tolerate it for a short time periods such as a medical use. Similarly, most ich meds are pretty harsh on a lot of fish. This is one reason we like those fast acting ones since they do not required prolonged exposure.
So by using both salt and harsh medications we subject the fish to a potential double whammy. Fish which may not handle one or the other well will handle the combination even worse.
One last link, this is a pretty good article on ich in all its forms and then all the treatments http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius
Here is a start http
/www.fishchannel.com/fish-blogs/fish-biz-buzz/2010/06/far-east-super-ich.aspxand
from http
/www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwichremedyyes.htmThe reason for not mixing salt treatment and med treatments for ich is simple. Most fish do not like or do well with salt but can tolerate it for a short time periods such as a medical use. Similarly, most ich meds are pretty harsh on a lot of fish. This is one reason we like those fast acting ones since they do not required prolonged exposure.
So by using both salt and harsh medications we subject the fish to a potential double whammy. Fish which may not handle one or the other well will handle the combination even worse.
One last link, this is a pretty good article on ich in all its forms and then all the treatments http
/www.skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthiriusThanks guys
Super Ich sounds nasty - lets hope I don't have that. I'm always jealous as how easily Americans can get hold of medication. I mean don't get me wrong, I think the UK systems is far superior in regards to public safety and particularly preventing resistance build up. But it's be so nice to be like, I could do with some Quinine Sulfate will just go down to the chemists and get that. Apparently King British do a white-spot product that contains it so I'll bare that in mind if I'm still failing to see results.
An update - there is no chloramines in the water, good stuff. And the free chlorine level is 1.2ppm at source and out water board family friend reckons it will be about 0.4ppm when it comes out our tap. Useful information.
So I used untreated water, then had a panic when I was out last night because, if the water treatment treats chloramines and there isn't any then it was probably playing a large role in removing some of the excess ammonia in the water - however as I said fish as still fine right now.
So the eSHa treatment is in, pleased to say loaches don't seem bothered. Still all active and looking reasonably healthy right now. Less happy to say I seem to have more visible spots today than I did yesterday which is a bit discouraging given what I've read about eSHa. However, will keep going with the course of treatment and see what happens - fingers crossed.
Super Ich sounds nasty - lets hope I don't have that. I'm always jealous as how easily Americans can get hold of medication. I mean don't get me wrong, I think the UK systems is far superior in regards to public safety and particularly preventing resistance build up. But it's be so nice to be like, I could do with some Quinine Sulfate will just go down to the chemists and get that. Apparently King British do a white-spot product that contains it so I'll bare that in mind if I'm still failing to see results.
An update - there is no chloramines in the water, good stuff. And the free chlorine level is 1.2ppm at source and out water board family friend reckons it will be about 0.4ppm when it comes out our tap. Useful information.
So I used untreated water, then had a panic when I was out last night because, if the water treatment treats chloramines and there isn't any then it was probably playing a large role in removing some of the excess ammonia in the water - however as I said fish as still fine right now.
So the eSHa treatment is in, pleased to say loaches don't seem bothered. Still all active and looking reasonably healthy right now. Less happy to say I seem to have more visible spots today than I did yesterday which is a bit discouraging given what I've read about eSHa. However, will keep going with the course of treatment and see what happens - fingers crossed.
Update - NO fatalities which is good, and they generally seem active. But I still have spots
Most individuals have no spots, or a only a couple which I think is an improvement, but its so hard to keep track of them and work out if you've seen them all. One individual who has no spots is still noticeably flashing though which doesn't bode well, and one guy has more spots than he's had since I've got them, he's covered. This isn't looking good.
Interestingly while browsing forums for ich treatment options, instead of working on my masters research project, someone said that it's been shown that ich has symbiotic bacteria. I haven't looked into the literature yet so not saying this is correct but if it is it would possibly explain the antiseptic in eSHa exit and why it helps - or is supposed to
Not really sure what else I can do, the tank temperature is now up at 32C which apparently should be enough in itself to kill off ich all by itself, I'm not being convinced by this. But the loaches didn't seem at all bothered by the increased temperatures so there didn't seem to be any harm in doing so. One loach appeared to be gasping at the surface this morning but given it's one out of 7 I'm inclined to think this may just be something it's decided it likes doing. Maybe this is naive of me, and I'm monitoring them closely.
Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong, or right. They all still have a strong feeding response and if I put some food into the tank it's a sure way to get all 7 of them out into the open.
Most individuals have no spots, or a only a couple which I think is an improvement, but its so hard to keep track of them and work out if you've seen them all. One individual who has no spots is still noticeably flashing though which doesn't bode well, and one guy has more spots than he's had since I've got them, he's covered. This isn't looking good.
Interestingly while browsing forums for ich treatment options, instead of working on my masters research project, someone said that it's been shown that ich has symbiotic bacteria. I haven't looked into the literature yet so not saying this is correct but if it is it would possibly explain the antiseptic in eSHa exit and why it helps - or is supposed to
Not really sure what else I can do, the tank temperature is now up at 32C which apparently should be enough in itself to kill off ich all by itself, I'm not being convinced by this. But the loaches didn't seem at all bothered by the increased temperatures so there didn't seem to be any harm in doing so. One loach appeared to be gasping at the surface this morning but given it's one out of 7 I'm inclined to think this may just be something it's decided it likes doing. Maybe this is naive of me, and I'm monitoring them closely.
Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong, or right. They all still have a strong feeding response and if I put some food into the tank it's a sure way to get all 7 of them out into the open.
If after the 3 days using esha exit you still have spots and or flashing you can use esha gdex..
http/www.eshalabs.eu/english/products/esha-gdexsupregsup.html
It is safe to use in combination with exit and/or straight after. With them being wild caught there is a possibility it could be an internal parasite, which is giving the ich appearance (as per the other thread with the clown loach, after treating those with a worming treatment the remaining one was cured).
http
/www.eshalabs.eu/english/products/esha-gdexsupregsup.htmlIt is safe to use in combination with exit and/or straight after. With them being wild caught there is a possibility it could be an internal parasite, which is giving the ich appearance (as per the other thread with the clown loach, after treating those with a worming treatment the remaining one was cured).
Well an update.
They are all still alive and healthy and feeding well.
Spots haven't totally gone but I think there are maybe less, still have one flashing with no symptoms though. Going to continue with the high temperature and eSHa for a couple more days and see what happens.
Trying to find the best way to deworm them is a mind field. I have sterazin which I was intending to use but I don't know if it's the right thing to do or not.
They are all still alive and healthy and feeding well.
Spots haven't totally gone but I think there are maybe less, still have one flashing with no symptoms though. Going to continue with the high temperature and eSHa for a couple more days and see what happens.
Trying to find the best way to deworm them is a mind field. I have sterazin which I was intending to use but I don't know if it's the right thing to do or not.
Well I don't want to talk too soon, but I think I'm maybe winning.
Only one with spots this morning and there appears to be less than yesterday, also haven't been able to observe any flashing yet. Seems to be taking a long time to get rid of, especially at the high temperature but I'll just continue doing what I'm doing, they all still seems to be active.
Still not certain what to do about possible internal parasites, so many treatment options for different things and you really have no idea what you are dealing with.
Only one with spots this morning and there appears to be less than yesterday, also haven't been able to observe any flashing yet. Seems to be taking a long time to get rid of, especially at the high temperature but I'll just continue doing what I'm doing, they all still seems to be active.
Still not certain what to do about possible internal parasites, so many treatment options for different things and you really have no idea what you are dealing with.
It is always a struggle to come to a decision. Have you noticed any stringy clear/white feces? or do any of them have a sunken abdomen? both these would be signs of a worm infestation, with the ich clearing you may not need to treat them (hopefully )
)Hi,
It is. If possible I'd rather go with the sterazin because I've got it, rather than something else which I have to spend more money on but I get the impression it will target nematodes but not tapeworms etc which would be knocked out by gdex which is praziquental.
I think I'm going to start soaking their food in garlic extract anyway as this sounds like it won't do any harm and may be benefical.
I have noticed some white looking poo but it's hard to tell I'm feeding them Hikari sinking wafers while they are in quarantine as they are mess free but they are also very light in colour which doesn't help.
I don't think there is any sign of skinniness but they have black streak markings down their sides from their gills and this makes it appear sunken when I dont' think it is, if you see what I mean. Makes it hard to tell.
I am really pleased that the ich seems to be slowly dieing away though, even if it has taken forever. Today will be the 5th Exit treatment.
It is. If possible I'd rather go with the sterazin because I've got it, rather than something else which I have to spend more money on but I get the impression it will target nematodes but not tapeworms etc which would be knocked out by gdex which is praziquental.
I think I'm going to start soaking their food in garlic extract anyway as this sounds like it won't do any harm and may be benefical.
I have noticed some white looking poo but it's hard to tell I'm feeding them Hikari sinking wafers while they are in quarantine as they are mess free but they are also very light in colour which doesn't help.
I don't think there is any sign of skinniness but they have black streak markings down their sides from their gills and this makes it appear sunken when I dont' think it is, if you see what I mean. Makes it hard to tell.
I am really pleased that the ich seems to be slowly dieing away though, even if it has taken forever. Today will be the 5th Exit treatment.
jimboshrimp
Fish Fanatic
Hi I had a massive ich outbreak which wiped out all my poor fish golden barbs, zebra danios ,shrimps and sulawaisie snail ( I think these were due to the salt) except 5 neon tetras which im glad to say are extremely happy now and swimming away very contently but I was horrified how quickly it spread and affected them. I had bought 3 pygmy endlers one of which died the next day then the outbreak happened .
I used temp and salt to kill it off but to no avail I quarantined the little neons then totally cleaned out my tank in boiling water to stop the cycle of ich except I took out the sponge filter first to put in with the quarantined neons so didn't lose my built up bacteria.
I was very sceptical about adding any new fish to my neons after putting them back in my proper tank but am glad to say I now have 5 beautiful cherry barbs as well as my little neons and they all get on swimmingly ( sorry couldn't help it )
I hope all is well now Good luck
Angie
but I was horrified how quickly it spread and affected them. I had bought 3 pygmy endlers one of which died the next day then the outbreak happened .I used temp and salt to kill it off but to no avail I quarantined the little neons then totally cleaned out my tank in boiling water to stop the cycle of ich except I took out the sponge filter first to put in with the quarantined neons so didn't lose my built up bacteria.
I was very sceptical about adding any new fish to my neons after putting them back in my proper tank but am glad to say I now have 5 beautiful cherry barbs as well as my little neons and they all get on swimmingly ( sorry couldn't help it )
I hope all is well now Good luck
Angie
Ich is a pain, and I'll feel very lucky if I manage to get all the loaches through it without losing one. They seem like hardy little things despite what I've read, though it'll probably end up that I've spoken too soon. We shall see, I'm doing my best.
Having done some research on treating for possible parasites I think my best bet is NT Lab's Anti Fluke and Wormer. It is one of the few that contains Flubenzodole, which should, from what I understand target most of the possible parasites as well as gill and body flukes. It targets both eggs and adults so only needs two doses and I think this is probably the best choice. Although I'm happy to hear suggestions from others.
Having done some research on treating for possible parasites I think my best bet is NT Lab's Anti Fluke and Wormer. It is one of the few that contains Flubenzodole, which should, from what I understand target most of the possible parasites as well as gill and body flukes. It targets both eggs and adults so only needs two doses and I think this is probably the best choice. Although I'm happy to hear suggestions from others.
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