Which Equipment Is The Best Or Some What The Best?

[Sora]

Well I'm currently doing research on my fresh water fish tank and have read alot of different posts regarding filteration, heater, and even sumps. I've been given a £300 allowance to buy my fish tank. This is about $590 dollars or so. But the question that I'm having at the moment is.... I now what type of aquarium I'm after (a 50 gallon +) but unsure which brand to choose? Because there are alot of different brands for filteration and whats better internal or external? And biological or what?

I'm planning on keeping neon tetras and thats about it.

 

[LauraFrog]

A 50+ gallon aquarium is frankly overkill if all you want is some small tropical fish, and although it can look very nice when well set up, to be honest you would be lucky to get the tank within budget let alone the cabinet/stand, filtration, gravel, decor and fish.
If you are working from a budget, a good option to consider is second hand tanks. The best piece of advice I can give you is to get in with your local fish society. If you're nice to them and help out where you can, you will find them a very good source of advice on bargains. Watch the newspaper for ads about things like aquarium shops closing and selling off equipment cheap. Also, if you don't mind your stand being a bit less than elegant, local tradies can probably make it for you out of steel for a lot less than a polished wooden stand would cost.

No matter what aquarium size you end up with you need to filter it. A 50 gallon should really be operating on a canister filter, but those aren't cheap, you'd be looking at about a quarter of your money gone just on a filter. If you chose a smaller tank, you can use internal filters quite easily. In my experience the cheap ones are as good as expensive ones. They aren't as powerful but if you buy more of them they still work out cheaper. Using several cheap ones is no different to one or two big ones.

Biological filtration is not an option, it is an essential part of fishkeeping. If you don't have that, well short of having three fish in a thousand gallon tank or doing daily 100% water changes, you are screwed. For this reason, the most important thing about a filter in my opinion is flexibility with filter media. That means you can take out the non mechanical parts of the filter and replace them with whatever you like, and if the filter uses cartridges, that you can open the cartridges and replace some of the contents without having to chuck the lot and replace the whole cartridge. Activated carbon helps keep water clear and is good to use in small amounts. Zeolite or ammonia remover is a waste of time, it does very little except wreck your water readings. What you want in your filter is bio rings. They are small, porous ceramic rings or noodles. The bacteria that provide biological filtration grow on them and remove ammonia from the water in the aquarium.

Another option you could consider is running an under gravel filter along with a power filter. Undergravels are excellent biological filters and will cut out a lot of the worry about the internal filter. As long as you keep the air flowing through them you are safe.

A lot of new branded fish tanks come with built in filtration or as part of package deals sold with a suitable heater and filter. These are almost always ideal for the job as long as you don't overstock your aquarium. The general rule is one inch of fish length (not including the tail) per gallon of water. US gallons are usually used. If you're talking imperial gallons, then after six months to a year of operatino when the tank is well and truly cycled you may be able to stock up to 2 inches of fish per imp. gallon.

Cycling is the next important thing to worry about. Wait for Miss Wiggle to show up. Her links will explain it WAAAY better than I could.

 

[waterdrop]

Well, I'm not very good with knowing total costs of various size aquarium setups in my head (there may be others who are) but I'll throw in my 2 cents of comments since I always think its great when new members try to ask questions and plan ahead! Its wonderful to plan first of all for your hardware, even before (or simultaneous with) learning water chemistry and water change techniques etc. that should be learned prior to getting fish. If you have the patience you can learn a lot of things about the necessary hardware.

Unfortunately, its a very big topic and many hobbyists refine their opinions about the best equipment for their goals over a period of years and trial and error. Each topic, tanks, filters, heaters etc. can be searched down, using the forum search tool. There are long discussions of each topic and if you are patient, you can usually find a few long, thorough, discussions on each topic. There are opinions out there about the tanks themselves of course and certainly plenty of discussion about the various dimensions of the tanks (its great you are thinking about a larger size as these are usually better for more stable beginner experiences with water chemistry.) Tetras like neons/cardinals give you a very wide range of tank shapes that should work well.

Lighting will take on a lot of importance if you plan to grow live plants. Unless you have looked into the planted tank hobby and are interested in high light, high growth setups, you would probably want to go for a "low-light" approach and plan on about 1.2-1.5 watts/gallon of lighting. This very rough statement may be oversimplified but its just to get you thinking about the lighting in the hoods of the setups you will see.

The filter is by far the most important piece of equipment usually and is the subject of huge discussions in the hardware forum. For a beginner planning something near a 50 gallon, I'd recommend you probably take a step back from the highly technical sumps, and focus your attention on external cannister filters. There are, of course, various major types of filters. Expert aquarists can make almost any of these types work properly and may argue that they can do a fine job. For beginners however, I'd venture to make some generalizations. Undergravel filters are pretty much old technology. Internal filters work well but take up room inside the tank and usually have less media volume than you will need. External hang-on-back (HOB) types also have somewhat smaller media volume and can generate water noise returning the water to the tank. For these reasons, external cannisters gained a prominent position among hobbyists. They have greater media volume (very important, keeping in mind that mother nature provides near infinite "media volume" in natural habitats!) A general starting guideline to size a cannister to a tank is aim for what we call a "5x turnover rate (per hour)." Thus the aim would be 250 US gallons/hour flow flow rate (950 litres/hour) for a 50 US gallon tank. Starting around this tank size and above, many hobbyists opt for 2 cannister filters of lesser flow rate, so that filter cleanings can be alternated and filtration has redundant backup (all assuming you can make it happen in your budget, which is tough! Probably only a minority do this.) People get very religious about filters, so just be ready when you search the hardware forum!

Be aware that there are many things to learn about filters. The media (ceramic rings, ceramic pebbles, coarse sponges, fine sponges, floss etc.) are a big and important topic and most hobbyists on this forum (I would guess) modify their media choices, changing them from what the manufacturer recommends. Its important to explore this topic within the forum prior to starting your fishless cycle.

Heaters are an easier topic as there are many reliable choices. Heaters can be internal, but there are also external choices that splice into the filter tubes, thus keeping them out of your aquascape. There are sizing guidelines to be found within the forum and again, redundancy or having a spare can be an advantage.

Anyway, good luck and be sure to return back here to the "New to the Hobby" forum as your gear gets finalized and you are ready to start learning about the Nitrogen Cycle and Fishless Cycling, which are the first of the essential knowledge to go along with the good equipment.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[rabbut]

Cut a long story short, a 50g tank bought all new won't be possible on a £300 budget, so if that is a fixed size, you will need to go second hand for pretty much everything. Waterdrop and LauraFrog have coverd most in sourcing second hand tanks and filteration, so I won't go over it again Laura makes a good recomendation in finding an aquatics society, as buying second hand can be dodgy if you don't know what you are looking at. An aquatics society won't try to rip you off, where other sellers may do

Heaters may be about the only thing you can get new in your budget. For internals, go with Visitherm, exturnal Hydor. I know someone running a 30 year old Visitherm and they last. I know of plenty of others running this brand also and none have had issues. Hydor are relatively new to the market, but being electronic heaters, there isn't realy anything to go wrong with them.

Have a good read of the pinned thread on setting up an aquarium by Miss Wiggle and most topics are either coverd in the thread, or linked to. Any questons after that (or before), feel free to ask

HTH
Rabbut

 

[flash22]

for £300-400 quid on new stuff all your get is maybe a juwel rio 180/240 and a eheim pro 2 2026 filter whats more than enough to keep running and maintaned

50 gallons plus you looking 12-1500 quid for a decent setup (small bits all add up) and you be seeing your bank manager and lfs on a weekly basis. lol

had a few visitherm heaters and thay have all given up with in a year since then i have gone over to aquaone/rena heaters. filter wise eheim are about the best but there not cheap if you on a budget the tetratec ex range are good iirc the new ex2400 does up to 600 liters

 

[Sora]

Hi all, thank you for your responses. I was just wondering that if I do go second hand, is there any issue with this?

 

[waterdrop]

My own opinion about second-hand in the hobby is that its just like any other second-hand situation: when its good its fantastic, when its bad its horrid -- ie. its hard to predict.

On the good side, the looks of second-hand may not matter much in aquarium equipment since after a few months the new stuff will begin looking just like the second-hand stuff. On the other hand, one advantage of new equipment is that if you are a careful and meticulous person, you always know how the stuff was treated, since it was you that took care of it. For example, if you take the time to rub your O-rings and other seals on your filter every time you clean it, then you know that your seals will last as long as possible. Probably very few people actually take to the time to do this. And that's just one example of many. But, overall, if you are careful, I would think carefully choosing some second-hand items, especially from a local society as mentioned, would be a great way to stretch a budget.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[rabbut]

Buying second hand tanks and other gear is like buying second hand cars. So long as you know what you are looking at and warning signs of anything going wrong, then you will probibly be fine. Someone new to the hobby though may miss a sales trick that cover up things like a dodgy tank seals and filter impellers with cavitation issues... As a rule, you should ask to see all equipment running before purchase, and as a new aquarist, I'd also advise taking along someone whom as kept fish for a long time and preferably that someone will also be suffering MTS (Multiple Tank Symdrome, where they have many tanks and still want more) as this type of aquarist will probibly be able to spot a lemon and can offer an experinced opinion to you

Societies won't likely rip you off in the same way some individuals may. They have a reputation to maintain. If they sell you dodgy equipment without telling you, they loose their rep, and will struggle to sell anything later on. This prety much garrentees all transactions done in these communities to be fairly safe

It's interesting that you have had issues with Vivitherm's, Flash, as those the Tetra's and the Hagen Elites are the only three that last for me. I haven't tried Rena, but the Aquaones and Superfish heaters have all faild regularly. I could go through one of each of those two brands heaters each month (yes I got that kind of failure rate ) untill I switched brand

As a rule, you get what you pay for with equipment (on the new price, not the second hand price) so research anything before you buy. Check out the equipment and take an experienced fishkeeping friend with you if doing business in an individual private sale, or do business within a fishkeeping society after researching equipment on offer

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Sora]

Thanks for your responses, I'll have to recheck up on my local community to see if they have any offers. But the only thing that worries me the most is what brand of item, because I've read that some brands will do a better job than others. For this reason I was personally going to get a jewul tank because of my lack of knowledge in fish tank equipments. The budget could be streched more and more its just finding the correct equipments.

Thanks in advance

P.S - Prior to this, I did keep platies and guppies.... But, due to my lack of knowledge and skills the fish tank kinda sunk... And for this reason I'm trying to ensure that I do my utmost find out what is needed prior to purchasing anything.

 

[flash22]

As your fairly new to the hobby i would start off with a 20-30 gallon tank. i started out with a rio 180 and over time upgraded to a external filter and better lighting as i have gained more knowledge. Before i did anything i spent 3 months researching everything fishy and visting lots of shops to get an idea of what i wanted (luckly i have 4 lfs within a 10 min drive and another 5 or so within 20-30 mins)

currently i have 2 rio 180's on eheim pro 2's, A rio 125 on a eheim pro 2224 and may be a new lido 120 next month. I have been in the hobby 18 months or so

 

[Sora]

Ah thank you very much, one of my main concerns was that if I do get a complete set, would I be able to upgrade in the future or would It be locked in place so that I could not upgrade it. But now that Ive read your post I'll be looking into complete sets as well.

Thanks for everything, I'll have to relook into external filternations, lighting, heating, complete aqauriums and custom aquariums.

 

[LauraFrog]

Custom aquariums are IMO a waste of money unless you have loads of it to burn. Usually.
If you get in with some local tradespeople they may be able to cut the glass and put everything together for you extremely cheaply. This can be a way of getting out of paying much for the tank and stand, enabling you to spend most of your money buying high quality equipment. But they might try to rip you off as well if they don't know you.

If you're relatively new to the hobby I wouldn't recommend either a nano tank or a very large tank. Large tanks can be difficult to cycle, harder to stock and a lot more work to maintain, but small tanks are relatively inflexible with stocking options, and need more work and attention to detail - if you miss a water change in a 50 gallon, nothing happens. If you miss a water change in a 5 gallon, your fish start dying.

50 gals would be a good size for a beginner but I don't recommend anything larger especially on a budget. If you end up with MTS there is absolutely nothing to stop you getting another tank! lol

Second hand is a good option to consider because you can pick up tanks that are damaged very cheap. A lot of people don't bother to repair them. There are tricks... if somebody is selling a tank with the viewing glass scratched and it's rectangular, turn it around. If the seal is leaking, ply it with silicone. You can pick up all manner of junk and turn it into a working aquarium if you know the tips - check out the DIY section. Somebody gave me a smashed aquarium last week - yeah gave it to me for free, it was utterly beyond repair - I've almost finished turning it into a frog tank (three sides glass one side mesh).

 

[Attilauk]

i bought a Fluval Roma 240 tank (63usg) complete with cabinet, Lighting, Fluval 305 external canister filter and Heater for £330 from my LFS.

if you hunt around you can get some bargains

 

[waterdrop]

I agree with Laura that you are in a good position to avoid extremely small or extremely large tank sizes. In my mind this reduces your scope back to the (US gallons) 20g to 75g range. Then, looking within that scope and trying to examine the trade-offs with some patience... the tanks above 50 gallons are going to involve longer time commitments to make water changes and do tank cleanings and also they are by definition very big and heavy, which brings its own set of problems (yet, of course, they are more forgiving and stable as we've discussed...)

If you are truly a brand new beginner then, no matter how enthusiastic you feel, its good perhaps to use "mind over matter" and consider that its possible you won't really take to all the habits of maintenance necessary for maintaining a tank, in which case a very large tank will add insult to injury if you get my meaning. So, using that logic, one might want to reduce the scope again, down to maybe 20g to 55g or so...

Within this more narrow scope, I've often noticed it mentioned here on the forum that 15g-30g is a bit of a "sweet spot" for beginners. Usually this comment is used to encourage those who are aiming for nano or very small tanks to consider going for something a bit bigger. In your case I would say the perhaps 20g to 40g might be something of a "sweet spot" in size, but maybe 55g would work out if you find a really good second-hand deal and are very sure that you want to take on a significant size.

OK, that's my long-winded thought for you. I just throw it out there because I know it always helps your own thoughts when someone just gives theirs!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

re the 'sweet spot' with tank sizes.

I think for a beginner a 30gal is just that sweet spot, maintenance doesn't take too long but it's big enough to be flexible stable and give you plenty of options of fish.

i wouldn't be scared of going bigger though, if you do get a 50gal then there's ways and means of making maintenance quicker and easier and once you've got the routine down it really doesn't take much extra time to clean an extra 15/20 gallons worth of tank.

i appreciate what you're saying about brand names and knowing you're getting quality, it's a case of knowing which things to save money on and which to spend out on.

the tank is a plain glass box, don't get a juwel one just get a cheapo second hand or new but un branded one. So long as it holds water then it's fine. Tip for buying second hand tanks, look at the silicone, if it's stained blue then don't buy it, means it's been treated with medicines which some fish won't tolerate in even small amounts.

the filter is your crucial piece of kit, spend a bit and get an eheim (not the ecco range) either 2nd hand or new.

lighting and heaters are generally not all that expensive in the first place.