Which Camera...for The Planted Tank?

[craynerd]

Guys,

We try our best to create these beautiful aquascapes, spend hours and hours of our time into researching and maintenance. Yet if we want to successfully share our tanks and aquascapes with other hobbyist we need to take pictures we can be proud of.

Who here can actually hold there hands up and say that they firstly have the correct photographic equipment but more importantly have the correct knowledge to take great pictures?
And i mean quality ADA and CAU style pictures not just a good photo.

I think my favorite photographer in simplicity is Oliver Knot. Apparently, all his pictures are taken with the DSLR Canon 350d using just the standard tank lighting. Exceptional photos for a smaller effort.

However nothing beats in my opinion the photos taken using external synchronized flash in a flash hood at the top of the tank, with a decent quality DSLR or even 35mm SLR.

SO....i do have a question at the end of all that woffle....

Does anyone here know anything about photography ? It seems that the camera to go for is between the Canon 350d (£500 in lens kit) or the Nikon D50 (£450 inc lens kit). A jump up, brings you to the Canon 70s (£650+ inc lens kit) and up again from that gives you the Canon D30 (£800 inc lens kit)...which seems the leader in almost all categories of its use still classed as a hobbyist camera.

Basically, i am tied to a budget but since photography has always been something i have wanted to get into, i am willing to increase it if it gets me far superior equipment. A camera purchase would be another hobby not just purely for the tank LOL !!

At these sort of prices, if i went with the cheaper Canon 350d what functions would i be missing that something like the D30 has ? Would i want to upgrade soon if i took the hobby up properly?

Regards

Chris

 

[George Farmer]

Interesting that you've posted this Chris. With the proceeds from my articles I intend investing in a decent camera, I can then submit quality photos to PFK to back up my articles.

The Canon EOS 350D has been recommended by many to me from Justin Law to the RAF photographers we have here. I've heard more negative reports on the Nikons.

I am complete newbie ref. DSLRs so I can not possible offer any more. In fact I posted on APC about a book recommendation for DSLR users.

There's a photography sub-forum on TFF too which may help you (us) further. There's loads of photography forums too. P-Base (that also host Oliver Knott's) is one I looked at earlier today.

 

[Jen]

I use the Nikon D70s. It's a great camera. I looove it

 

[Bloo]

You just have to go and try them out - the actual feel of the camera. And read loads of reviews. I too considered the Canon 350D, but really dislike the size (very small to handle and light). And finally (after much research) went for the Canon EOS 20D. Which just absolutely "feels" right. Size and weight and buttons.
It came with a 17-85mm lens (though you can just buy the body - but as a package the lens if often much much cheaper than if you were to buy it separately.

I just recently also got the specialized macro lens (ESF 60mm) to go with it. But you're talking relatively big bucks if all you really want is to take photos of your tank - and have little other interest in photography.

I can also tell you that it's really not just snap and shoot. Though of course there is an auto function.
You have to know and understand things like aperture, depth of field, shutter speed etc. etc. to get the best out of it.

Tip: no matter how clean you think your glass might look to the naked eye - spit polish clean it before taking photos !!

 

[-=Joel=-]

I use konica Dynax 5d ... great camera for the price. However if you want a nice camera go for the cannon 20d.

Its not just the camera however that makes a good picture. You need to invest in some nice glass (lenes). Most of the better lenses cost more than the cameras.

I dont know much on the techinical sides however when taking piccys of my tank and fish I use the exposure setting, shutter speed. Using this I can get the fish in focus and not over expose the picture.

Also even though some people hate it, graphic programmes like photoshop can be used to help one improve pictures. I dont like to mess around too much however removing the odd spots of dirt and grime or even using the levels to get the right exposure sure helps boost the picture imo.

Joel

 

[craynerd]

WOW, Justin only used a 350s !! v interesting. I spoke to Gary Wu a while back and he said "the rest of the team tend to use top of the range DLSR". I was expecting more like the canon 5D etc. !!

i am quite prepared to pay the going rate for the Canon 350d with 18-55 kit lens since thats at a reasonable price.

My concerns are the need for an expensive macro lens if i wish to take closeups, which inevitably i will. Also i am sure there are """some settings" lol i dunno which, but i know the lower budget range DSLR are harder to shoot macro. AppArEntLY !!

I have done lots of research and the 350d, 70s and 50s seem like they are all good cameras. If i could afford it i would go for the D30 but i think thats going to the extreme. I can see me not using most of the functions, and if i was to ever want them, well i could upgrade.

i am just totally confused....is it worth waiting another few months to get the D30 ?

Chris

 

[craynerd]

I use the Nikon D70s. It's a great camera. I looove it

I thought you had very good pictures!!! That is obviously why! i noticed the 70s was rated highly in one of the digi Camera mags i was reading (in WhSMiths lol) this afternoon. It was just piped on all accounts by the Canon 30D.

Chris

 

[Jen]

I thought you had very good pictures!!! That is obviously why! i noticed the 70s was rated highly in one of the digi Camera mags i was reading (in WhSMiths lol) this afternoon. It was just piped on all accounts by the Canon 30D.
Chris

Why, thank you Chris. I love this camera. Like Bloo said, its the feel of the camera that does it for you. I like things with a bit of weight to them. The d50 and the Canon rebel just felt to light and 'flimzy' to me. I liked the d70s metal body over the d50s plastic. I didn't see the Canon 30D when I was out looking... we may not have it over here yet (I bought back in February).

Whatever you do go with, make sure you play with them all in the store, recearch all the features that each camera does and doesn't have. In the end, that's where my choice was decided. I wanted the DOF prieview, and the Nikon d70 had it. Ok. Well, that and a few other things too. Price certainly one of them since I paid way more than I thought I would. lol.

 

[-=Joel=-]

Check out this great site:

http/www.dpreview.com/

Compares most cameras and you even get test shots etc

 

[Waterloo Kid]

Obviously the cameras sensor(s) are going to play a big part in which camera you choose. The higher the resolution, the higher the quality of shot. I say generally because, in the last review I read (which was a fair few months back now so things may have changed), the Nikon D50 was praised highly for it's image quality even though it only has 6.2 megapixels. It was very close to the D70 in terms of quality (also 6.2 Mp if I remeber correctly) although the image processing on the D70 was better i.e. how the comera handles the raw image data from the sensor.
As you say, for tank photography you may not use a lot of the functions although off the top of my head the ones you will most likely use are:

1/ Macro/close-up function. This is more a function of the lens used.
2/ Depth of field preview. This allows you to see which parts of the picture are going to be in focus before the shutter is released. Depth of field changes with the apeture setting (f numbers). The higher the f number, the smaller the apeture becomes and the greater the depth of field. Just be careful, the smaller the aperture the longer the exposure which means camera shake and fuzzy fish/plants.
3/ White balance adjustment. With all the fancy lighting used on planted tanks you are going to have to be able to adjust the white balance (how the camera decides what is white) to suit.
4/ Aperture/shutter priority and manual settings. These let you set the exposer based on a prefered aperure or shutter speed or set it all manually. I expect all cameras mentioned in this thread to have all these.
5/ Eye-piece focus adjust. If you wear glasses this is a must so that you can see when the picture is in focus if you use manual focusing.
6/ Multi point metering. Allows you to choose which part of the frame the camera uses to calculate the correct exposure. For example, if the middle portion of the photo is darker than the rest of the frame and that's the bit you were interested in you would choose centre weighted exposure to ensure that part of the photo is correctly exposed.
7/ Exposure lock. Linked with No. 6 this allows you to focus on a part of your tank, set the exposure (say using spot metering in the middle portion of the frame) and then lock the exposure to those settings while you move the camera to compose the image. This allows the part of the image you want to be exposed properly to be off centre, or even right to the edge of a frame without having to set everything manually.
8/ Flash sync. This is the fastest shutter speed that the camera can cope with when using the flash. Any faster and the camera cannot syncronise the shutter opening with the flash.

I'm getting a bit technical now so I'll stop.

Oh, one thing I forgot which really should be number one is make sure it has a standard tripod screw fixing. You WILL need a tripod!

You could always just hit the program button and have the camera do it all for you though!

Hope that helps.

WK

 

[craynerd]

Waterloo,

Thank you so much for that, what a wonderful post!

I have used for the past year my grandads old 35mm SLR minolta purchased in 1980 ! It’s a cracking camera, my dad 4 years ago got a brand new 35mm Nikon SLR and the quality is equal.
I am familiar with a lot of the terminology but the D SLR world opens up a wide new range of functions like White balance adjustment and Multi point metering as well as image previews!!

I have read lots of reviews and it seems that the Canon 350s pips the Nikon D50.
However, the Nikon D70s seems to rate even higher with the Canon 30D at the top.

I am obviously talking about armature/hobbyist cameras (sub £1000).

Can i ask you a big favor? I can obviously use google and www.dpreview.com and setup a 350s v D50 comparison, but it means nothing to me because i don’t really know and understand what the functions are. You seem very clued up on all this. If you have a few minutes spare would you take a look for us and give us a brief summary of what the 350s offers over the D50, what the 70s offers after that and what the 30D offers at the top of the table. Especially specific to the functions we may need for planted tank photography.

I know the 30d has a metal (is it magnesium tungsten) body rather than plastic which i presume shifts the price.

Anyway...look forward to your reply.

Chris

 

[scubadoo]

The canon 350D has been a well ragarded camera for some time now, and for its price is very well specced will probably produce the better images, but....

and it is a but,

its overall size is very small for a D-SLR. If you have small hands you may not find this a problem, but many do, and end up buying an extra grip/battery pack that fits onto the bottom of the camera which makes it much more stable in your hands - but this ads to the cost. If on the other hand you travel a lot and a small lightweight camera is a bonus then go for it. Also, because it's small, the screen on the back of the 350D is very small, and makes it a bit more difficult to review images in camera.
The general consensus is that the Nikons (particularly the D70) are regarded as being more solidly built, and the features / buttons are easier to use.

The Canon D30 is a development of the D20 - not much of a development really, same processor etc., but it is a different beast altogether and will produce superior results. The question is ...... are those results worth it to you ?

Prices for the standard cameras are one thing, but dont forget about the lenses - if you're buying a good quality macro lens for close in work, then it will probably set you back a minimum of £200. Another option in to use your telephoto which you would need anyway (from a bit further away).

The canon 5D and 1DS have full frame sensors and are in a different league again, but so is the cost - you could get a decent second hand car instead!

The other thing to remember about digital camera's is that whatever you pay for one now, in twelve months time it'll probably only be worth half of what you paid for it - maximum. So consider looking for one second hand - there are plenty of people who just HAVE to get the newest model and are willing to sell their old one for half price even if it is only a few months old!

But as Waterloo Kid said, one of the most important aspects wil be the use of a tripod - especially if you'r aiming to use ambient light generally. So you need to make sure you get a decent one of thos too!

Oh, and you'll need a good quality bag, extra memory cards, batteries, maybe a new printer to print off the super quality new pics, and is your pc up to using a memory intensive photo manipulation programme and....and.....and......

It all adds up !

 

[craynerd]

Thanks scubadoo, we posted at the same time.

I currently have a tripod and i use the latest Adobe Photoshop but your right, lens are gonna realy bump the price.

This Minolta that i keep harping on about, i have a decent selection of lenses, 50mm, 28mm etc. They all use the minolta bayonet standard mount. i presume its unlikely, but could i use these with a camera if i was to buy one? They are top quality lenses for their time, is the quality not good enough now anyway?

Chris

 

[scubadoo]

You can often use the old lenses on new cameras, but you will have to focus manually of course!

Take them with you to the camera shop and try them out!

Also, when I bought my last digital video camera, I researched best prices on the www, found a cheap supplier in the UK and took a print out with me to Jessops. They matched the price! Which meant I saved over £150 on their window price, but with the peace of mind that if something goes wrong I dont have to package the thing up & post it off. Apparently they have a price matching policy with UK suppliers.

They probably wouldn't match pixmania's price (who are often the cheapest) since they're based in france, but I've heard of people getting cameras with eurpean or far east spec's and no manuals from them. In any case there's often only a few quid in the best prices anyway.

But the bottom line is if the quality's good enough, then do you really need a D-SLR?
With a good flat bed scanner (or with a film/tranny hood) you can get excellent quality digital images from film.
D-SLR's are convenient and allow you to play around with settings etc. without paying for loads of development though.

 

[craynerd]

You have hit the reason right there on the head.

I have for the last hour or so been snapping away at my tank with my 35mm. I now have to go and spend £5.99 for processing (since i have to use the hour service cuz i can`t get in town often enough to pick up in a few days) , I have to write down EXACTLy what settings each shot was taken at so that i can analyse it for future and have to drive all the way to town , waste an hour and drive back. All that to look at 24 photos that will probably be cack and need retaking.

With digital that whole 4-5 hour process is instant and less costly!

DSLR is the way to go for me.

Chris