Marine Light for Tropical Plant Tank? + HEAT Concerns

[FishHobby99]

I have been told by the powers that be here too much blue encourages algae growth. Something most undesirable in this tall tank & stand.

It’s a cichlid/catfish tank. No plants other than Java ferns on acrylic vertical poles thanks to these sand excavators. Excluding terrestrial plants with submerged roots to boost nitrate uptake. I’m also being told Java plants grow too slow to be of much benefit to any tank, so their purchase was a waste.

idk. They are doing ok.

 

[Byron]

Unless I missed something along the way when trying to fathom the technical stuff...bottom line is, the "marine" light will not grow plants other than algae. There is no (or very very little) red in the "white" mix, and red is essential for photosynthesis in higher plants. If you do not have live plants, then the lighting really doesn't matter. The "marine" will not produce true rendition of the colours of fish and anything in the tank, but that is solely a matter for the aquarist. Plants however have very specific needs when it comes to light, and no "marine" lighting provides these. Adding some sort of "red" is not the answer; the "white" light has to be balanced in the red, blue and green wavelengths.

Blue light does encourage algae, no question about that. I've seen it in my own tanks, back when I had one 6500K and one 11000K tube over the 90g tank. The plants struggled using the red and green (and blue) in the 6500K white light (which by the way closely replicates mid-day sun under which these plants evolved) while the additional brightness and coolness of the 11000K cause black brush algae to increase quite noticeably. Plants simply cannot use this light.

 

[Smellsfishy2me]

Your post is too complex for this newbie. I am using a Fleval Aquasky 2 on my freshwater tank. My intuition says you can probably adjust the settings

Apologies Jenny. I am still newbie as well. It's more how chaotic my brain is and how I teach myself. Generally this way I learn things faster. That said, I can see how it might be confusing to others. Thank you for sharing your settings. I'm curious as to why you have chosen to greatly reduce the levels like so in the middle of that day?

 

[Smellsfishy2me]

Unless I missed something along the way when trying to fathom the technical stuff...bottom line is, the "marine" light will not grow plants other than algae. There is no (or very very little) red in the "white" mix, and red is essential for photosynthesis in higher plants. If you do not have live plants, then the lighting really doesn't matter. The "marine" will not produce true rendition of the colours of fish and anything in the tank, but that is solely a matter for the aquarist. Plants however have very specific needs when it comes to light, and no "marine" lighting provides these. Adding some sort of "red" is not the answer; the "white" light has to be balanced in the red, blue and green wavelengths.

Blue light does encourage algae, no question about that. I've seen it in my own tanks, back when I had one 6500K and one 11000K tube over the 90g tank. The plants struggled using the red and green (and blue) in the 6500K white light (which by the way closely replicates mid-day sun under which these plants evolved) while the additional brightness and coolness of the 11000K cause black brush algae to increase quite noticeably. Plants simply cannot use this light.

Yea sorry about that. I was more respecting Cols input by showing graphs as earlier requested by Coilin and expressing in the only way I know how. The information provided to me was quite beneficial in reaching a more appreciable light balance with what I have. As for this new information you bring to light, I'll have to return later to contemplate and further research.

I was thinking there was a good reason why the word plant was never mentioned in the advert regarding the light and or never mentioned at all in the manual. I will be upgrading this light around February however in the meantime will be experimenting with some plants under this light. You can be sure I will adding some more technical stuff to fathom in the near further regarding the progress of the little test. By the sounds of things I will not expect 'thriving' results.

Thanks for the input. This kind of validates what I already suspected. My aim is to provide lighting that is optimized and well balanced for plants as well as fish.

 

[Smellsfishy2me]

Thanks Col - Love your suggestions. The gravel cost a bit an whilst lining the top may be an idea, when cleaning gravel it would all get mix. That said, I absolutely intend on getting darker gravel. The gravel I purchased said dark/gold and was the only affordable option at the time. 100% can see the sense in getting a darer gravel yet for my needs.

Floating plants sounds good too. Not sure I have seen any but then again I have not been looking whilst in the pet/aquarium shops and live in a smallish town. I might have to make a full day trip to venture into a larger area to find these, unless I can cultivate from seed in the tank?

Giving thought to well selected items that go in the tank is a sure thing taking into account tannins, texture (reflective and absorption properties) as well as color is something else I can consider. I did not know the gravel selected was going to reflect that much. That said it is a bare tank ... but still more than I thought it would reflect.

Unfortanely I don't get the final say as this tank is for my grandson. In the process of scrounging up cheap parts I have become consumed with wanting to do my own. Unfortanely my other half is not so fussed about the idea blaming electricity as reason not to go ahead. So it is that I am now researching the concept of powering a modest fish tank completely off solar with a decent sized battery (or two) with back up alternatives for in-between. The difficulties as a renter with such a solar setup is tailing wires through a windows, door ways and the like. Huge Buzz Kill on that fact alone. I am a good renter and wont mess with things like that. I could make a chore of rotating batteries though to overcome this limitation. Like I have to hand water my plants almost daily when rotating front to back. What's another little chore changing over batteries once or twice a day?

It would be fun to calculate the wattage and amperage requited all up for such a system. Then my wife would have to come up with a new excuse.

 

[itiwhetu]

You know that lighting your tank can be as simple as what I have done. On my six foot I have one 45cm led for the amazon sword plant, only turned on as it gets dark. I have two wall lights and a standard lamp, and then some natural light, Bingo. Don't over think these things, aquatic plants are weeds as long as they have warm water and some light they will grow.

 

[Smellsfishy2me]

I have no probs with the way I think. I was pretty cruisy with your reply up until that part telling me how to think. It's not just you, but also a few others in here and all over the internet. Invalidation regardless of intent. People today just can't help it.

Thanks for everything Col. You were a huge help.

I'll just blog my own accounts from here on out and learn from reading books.

I'm high on the spectrum - an easy target without others knowing it.

Take care and be well. Full respect and thankyou for your tact.

 

[FishHobby99]

Unless I missed something along the way when trying to fathom the technical stuff...bottom line is, the "marine" light will not grow plants other than algae. There is no (or very very little) red in the "white" mix, and red is essential for photosynthesis in higher plants. If you do not have live plants, then the lighting really doesn't matter. The "marine" will not produce true rendition of the colours of fish and anything in the tank, but that is solely a matter for the aquarist. Plants however have very specific needs when it comes to light, and no "marine" lighting provides these. Adding some sort of "red" is not the answer; the "white" light has to be balanced in the red, blue and green wavelengths.

Blue light does encourage algae, no question about that. I've seen it in my own tanks, back when I had one 6500K and one 11000K tube over the 90g tank. The plants struggled using the red and green (and blue) in the 6500K white light (which by the way closely replicates mid-day sun under which these plants evolved) while the additional brightness and coolness of the 11000K cause black brush algae to increase quite noticeably. Plants simply cannot use this light.

Bryon, are these settings good for my cichlid/catfish tank? Only plants there are Java ferns on poles. Can’t do much with sand substate & excavating fish. Are there better plants that could be attached to the poles? I simply used rubber bands. BTW, I don‘t want any

floating plants in this tank.
I don’t know what’s up with the center dips in the graph. Must be a default setting. I sure don’t notice any daytime light drops.

 

[Byron]

Bryon, are these settings good for my cichlid/catfish tank? Only plants there are Java ferns on poles. Can’t do much with sand substate & excavating fish. Are there better plants that could be attached to the poles? I simply used rubber bands. BTW, I don‘t want any View attachment 150013 floating plants in this tank.
I don’t know what’s up with the center dips in the graph. Must be a default setting. I sure don’t notice any daytime light drops.

I take it from this graph that the main tank lighting comes on at 7 am and turn off at roughly 7 pm. That's 12 hours of "daylight" to the fish and plants. I would expect algae issues with this long a photoperiod, especially with low-light requiring plants like Java Fern [I certainly see this with 7 hours if the tank is not covered with floaters to protect the ferns/moss below], but if you are not seeing any, then there is no problem.

Java Fern and Anubias are often mentioned for cichlids as these plants are tough and fish do not tend to eat them or try to eat them, and they can be attached to wood and rock so they tend to stay where you want them.

 

[FishHobby99]

Yes, I’m doing 12 total hours, but I just checked the set points & sure appears the sunrise goes from 7-9AM and sunset from 6:15-7PM. Additionally, the lights are never set at max.

No algae problems other then last week‘s mysterious unidentified organism, if it even was an algae. idk. How very strange it suddenly emerged & vanished!

Would it be better for my fish to reduce the light hours? Very easily done from my iPad app.
thanks, Bryon.

 

[FishHobby99]

Apologies Jenny. I am still newbie as well. It's more how chaotic my brain is and how I teach myself. Generally this way I learn things faster. That said, I can see how it might be confusing to others. Thank you for sharing your settings. I'm curious as to why you have chosen to greatly reduce the levels like so in the middle of that day?

Good question! I did not actually set what certainly appears to be a major mid day dip. It was part of the default settings & I left it up to see what it does. Appears to do nothing. If the light level is indeed dropping, I can’t tell. Maybe I could take some pics or pay better attention. I sure wouldn’t want my tank going as dark as the graph suggests. It’s not, but perhaps there‘s a subtle dip.

 

[Byron]

Yes, I’m doing 12 total hours, but I just checked the set points & sure appears the sunrise goes from 7-9AM and sunset from 6:15-7PM. Additionally, the lights are never set at max.

No algae problems other then last week‘s mysterious unidentified organism, if it even was an algae. idk. How very strange it suddenly emerged & vanished!

Would it be better for my fish to reduce the light hours? Very easily done from my iPad app.
thanks, Bryon.

As long as the "daylight" (being the strongest light) is a continuous period, it can be anywhere from six to twelve hours. Problem algae (in planted tanks) is usually the determining factor. My tanks s I believe I have mentioned run for seven hours and this is the max before I will start seeing problem algae.

Most of our aquarium fish come from the tropics, and the daylight/night periods are basically unchanged throughout the year. Eleven hours of daylight, eleven hours of darkness, with an hour for dusk and dawn periods. This is very general, but it does apply to the Amazon basin for example. If you need to shorten the day period, then the dawn and dusk periods can be longer. The period of total black darkness is usually determined by the natural light at the time of year, more in winter and less in summer.

That "dip" in light intensity mid-day...provided this is not too significant, it should cause no issues for plants or fish. However, both will "shut down" with a significant decrease in light intensity/brightness; and while plants can adjust to this relatively easily, fish cannot. The circadian rhythm of fish, like all animals, "expects" day and night at set times, and the "day" must be continuous, as must the "night." This is why humans have issues with time changes like daylight savings, or "jet lag;" it is the light/dark difference that throws off our circadian rhythm. The effect on fish is much the same but probably more significant due to their high susceptibility to light.

 

[FishHobby99]

I have no probs with the way I think. I was pretty cruisy with your reply up until that part telling me how to think. It's not just you, but also a few others in here and all over the internet. Invalidation regardless of intent. People today just can't help it.

Thanks for everything Col. You were a huge help.

I'll just blog my own accounts from here on out and learn from reading books.

I'm high on the spectrum - an easy target without others knowing it.

Take care and be well. Full respect and thankyou for your tact.

Colin is always a great help. He knows things.

 

[FishHobby99]

As long as the "daylight" (being the strongest light) is a continuous period, it can be anywhere from six to twelve hours. Problem algae (in planted tanks) is usually the determining factor. My tanks s I believe I have mentioned run for seven hours and this is the max before I will start seeing problem algae.

Most of our aquarium fish come from the tropics, and the daylight/night periods are basically unchanged throughout the year. Eleven hours of daylight, eleven hours of darkness, with an hour for dusk and dawn periods. This is very general, but it does apply to the Amazon basin for example. If you need to shorten the day period, then the dawn and dusk periods can be longer. The period of total black darkness is usually determined by the natural light at the time of year, more in winter and less in summer.

That "dip" in light intensity mid-day...provided this is not too significant, it should cause no issues for plants or fish. However, both will "shut down" with a significant decrease in light intensity/brightness; and while plants can adjust to this relatively easily, fish cannot. The circadian rhythm of fish, like all animals, "expects" day and night at set times, and the "day" must be continuous, as must the "night." This is why humans have issues with time changes like daylight savings, or "jet lag;" it is the light/dark difference that throws off our circadian rhythm. The effect on fish is much the same but probably more significant due to their high susceptibility to light.

There is no real dip as I just explained to the OP.

 

[itiwhetu]

I have no probs with the way I think. I was pretty cruisy with your reply up until that part telling me how to think. It's not just you, but also a few others in here and all over the internet. Invalidation regardless of intent. People today just can't help it.

Thanks for everything Col. You were a huge help.

I'll just blog my own accounts from here on out and learn from reading books.

I'm high on the spectrum - an easy target without others knowing it.

Take care and be well. Full respect and thankyou for your tact.

If this was targeted at me, I was simply showing that sometimes less is more. What people tend to do is get carried away with science, where just going back to basics is what is required.