Which Breed Of Fish Are These Rams?

[Saturnine]

Hello,
 
Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. Still new here and haven't quite learned the ways around yet.
 
I bought a couple of rams today. The tank was stocked as 'Assorted Rams' and recommended a male/female pair. Could anybody tell me which type of Ram they are? Is it possible to determine their sexes?
 
Thanks for your help.

 

[Nordk]

They look like Bolivian Rams.
"Sexing: Males and females are very similar in color and size. Males have a longer dorsal and caudual fin. Males are sometimes larger then females and display more color."
From here:http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/59127-bolivian-ram/

 

 

[KittyKat]

Mikrogeophagus altispinosus, as mentioned above. The first photo could be either, while the second is a male.

 

[Saturnine]

Thank you both! Pretty much assumes what I thought, particularly with regards to the sex. I'm noticing the male (second picture) has a red tip to its dorsal fin. The fish in the fish picture does have a few specks of red at the end of the dorsal spines but definitely not a red line. I hope it's female. Will their behaviour be a clue? Anything I should be looking for?

 

[DaveIOW]

When researching blue rams sex, one of the tell tail signs is if their dorsal fin goes past the start of their tail.

If fin goes past start of tail, it's a male.
If fin stops short of tail, it's a female.

You can see in your second picture that the fin does indeed go back past, being male, first is harder to see from that angle.

Imagine this would be the case in all rams blue/gold/Bolivian?

If that's not the case, forget everything I've just said

 

[Saturnine]

When researching blue rams sex, one of the tell tail signs is if their dorsal fin goes past the start of their tail.

If fin goes past start of tail, it's a male.
If fin stops short of tail, it's a female.

You can see in your second picture that the fin does indeed go back past, being male, first is harder to see from that angle.

Imagine this would be the case in all rams blue/gold/Bolivian?

If that's not the case, forget everything I've just said

 
I think you're right Dave! Here's a another pic of what we think is a female. Still not the best as the tank's a bit cloudy and she's sitting near the back. Definitely a different dorsal fin shape to the male though.

 

[KittyKat]

Thank you both! Pretty much assumes what I thought, particularly with regards to the sex. I'm noticing the male (second picture) has a red tip to its dorsal fin. The fish in the fish picture does have a few specks of red at the end of the dorsal spines but definitely not a red line. I hope it's female. Will their behaviour be a clue? Anything I should be looking for?

Colour is a poor indicator of the sex, you probably shouldn't rely on it. Behaviour wise, not much difference unless they pair up or start shredding each other (the latter is not necessarily an indication of sex).
 

When researching blue rams sex, one of the tell tail signs is if their dorsal fin goes past the start of their tail.

If fin goes past start of tail, it's a male.
If fin stops short of tail, it's a female.

Older females can have dorsal fins which are as long as those that males have, while young males will have short dorsals.
 

Imagine this would be the case in all rams blue/gold/Bolivian?

M. altispinosus are a different species from M. ramirezi M. ramirezi comes in a number of different colour and shapes, such as wild type, gold, electric blue and balloon (or a combination of those). The sexing for the two species is slightly different in that a pink tummy is the easiest way to sex a female M. ramirezi while M. altispinosus don't really show this characteristic.
 
The dorsal fins are a characteristic which is shared by many of the South American cichlids, but it should generally be treated with caution.
 

I think you're right Dave! Here's a another pic of what we think is a female. Still not the best as the tank's a bit cloudy and she's sitting near the back. Definitely a different dorsal fin shape to the male though.

The probably-female is looking stressed in both photos, I'd make sure she is feeding well and that they're getting plenty of piece and quiet!

 

[Saturnine]

 
The probably-female is looking stressed in both photos, I'd make sure she is feeding well and that they're getting plenty of piece and quiet!
 

 

Thanks for that. I only got the pair this afternoon and they're both in a reasonably-well established, heavily planted tank. Lots of nooks and crannies and plenty of plant cover.
 
The colours on the male are really shining now while the female is still grey. I agree she looks a little stressed in the pics though she seems to be socialising quite well with the clown loaches now. I put fish flakes in the tank every day and either brine-shrimp tablets or bloodworms every other day. I'll keep an eye on her.
 

 

[Discuslove]

first pic female, second pic male.(from the original post)