Where To Begin? New Setup Aqua One Regency 120, Help Sil Vous Plait&#3

[neilgrisdale]

Hey guys!

Just want to start by saying, awesome forum.. have read through many of your posts over the last few weeks and you guys are great.
I'm from Sydney, Australia and this forum, whilst the furthest away from home, seems to be the best, so, hats off to you!

I'm pretty much new to the Fish game (i once upon a time had a 60L tank when i was 15 and had some tetra's etc but nothing to this scale!) - And would love any help/advice/tips i can get!

I've just bought a second hand (18 month old) Aqua One Regency 120, 300L tank. It's the Black one, not the beech model, and is in excellent condition (i made sure that if i was going to get second hand, that it would look new!)

The tank comes with all the standard extras:

- 300W heater, some ornaments (tacky really, probably leave them out!)
- Aqua One CF1200 External Canister Filter (the media, or Filter looks quite dirty so I'll be changing that) with extra media
- Aqua One Air Pump
- Standard Aqua One 2x30w twin Lighting (not sure if these are the older T8, or T5's? I'm guessing T8's) FYI - i only pick up the tank tomorrow!
- 50 x Bristle Nose Cat fish (5cm - 15cm)

And some pH and other test kits (i'll find out tomorrow).

Now, any help with my next questions would be awesome guys, I'll put them in Bullet format to they are easier to read and reply to, I'm certainly not being rude! (PS. I'll be posting pictures throughout the progress of my tank for everyone!!)

Crucial Questions

- The tank is second hand, so what will this mean with the cycling of the tank with new water? (the old owner said he'd leave a little bit of water and the gravel to keep some of the old fish's environment) Should i be starting from scratch when filling her up, cleaning the tank vigorously?
- The filters obviously been used for quite some time, so i guess that part of the Cycling is done? (sorry guys, i've been reading up on fishless cycling but i'm still really oblivious to all this!) Possibly change the filters, or just clean them out?
- The fish, now personally i don't really like Cat fish, but i'll get to the fish selection at a later time, my main concern is getting the cat fish back in the tank ASAP, in a controlled environment so that they do not die, or fall ill. I just want to make sure the fish are ok, then if i give them away later, that's fine but i just want to do the right thing by them. So how long do you think they will be out of the tank for? i.e. Setting the tank up again? Should i be taking them straight to my LPS instead the next day so that i know they will survive?
- Will i need to do a Full Fishless tank Cycle as i've read on the forums?
- What is the best water treatments you could recommend? some of the LFS's I've been too have all tried to sell me different stuff
- Any tricks or tips anyone would be kind enough to share with me RE setting this tank up in my home, a new environment?


Not so Crucial Questions


Salt Water or Fresh water? - Well i guess i can answer this myself. I'd LOVE to have a SW setup but i'm not experienced enough yet, which is a shame as i'd LOVE to have live rock, and corals and vibrant marine fish in such a beautiful tank as the Regency 120 is, but i just don't think that will happen for a few years - So with that said, i'll be sticking to a Fresh Water setup, which is still beautiful as i've seen in some of your posts.
- Can you recommend some fish that would be similar to Marine fish? I know it's quite a daft question, but i've heard there are similar looking "Nemo" (Clown Anemonefish) fish for a Freshwater Tropical tank out there?
- I know you can't use Coral or Live Rock in a FW setup as they have organism's and bacteria that will simply, die, if submerged with out salt. but is there anything else you wonderful people could recommend other than fake coral (goooey!), drift wood and bubble curtains?
- Can anyone suggest a group of community fish that would get along in this FW environment?


Guys, i know these are a lot of questions, and i know i have a million more but i would really appreciate anyone's help. I've fallen in love with the hobby and just want to do it right the first time!

Look forward to hearing back from anyone! =)



Neil

 

[Bobtastic]

Crucial Questions

- The tank is second hand, so what will this mean with the cycling of the tank with new water? (the old owner said he'd leave a little bit of water and the gravel to keep some of the old fish's environment) Should i be starting from scratch when filling her up, cleaning the tank vigorously? If you choose to clean the tank make sure that you don't use and soaps or disinfectates, as they can leave a residue behind which will poison the fish once put back in.
- The filters obviously been used for quite some time, so i guess that part of the Cycling is done? (sorry guys, i've been reading up on fishless cycling but i'm still really oblivious to all this!) Possibly change the filters, or just clean them out? If the filter has been kept wet and "fed" and not switched off for too long you should be able to run it straight away in a tank with conditioned water.
- The fish, now personally i don't really like Cat fish, but i'll get to the fish selection at a later time, my main concern is getting the cat fish back in the tank ASAP, in a controlled environment so that they do not die, or fall ill. I just want to make sure the fish are ok, then if i give them away later, that's fine but i just want to do the right thing by them. So how long do you think they will be out of the tank for? i.e. Setting the tank up again? Should i be taking them straight to my LPS instead the next day so that i know they will survive? That's up to you really, if you don't want them you could ask ur LFS if they will take them off you.
- Will i need to do a Full Fishless tank Cycle as i've read on the forums? If you decide to keep the fish u have then you dont really have that choice, if you re-home then you're probably best off with a Fish-less cycle.
- What is the best water treatments you could recommend? some of the LFS's I've been too have all tried to sell me different stuff They are all pretty much the same, I use the Tetra one and it works just fine. You are talking about dechlorinators right?
- Any tricks or tips anyone would be kind enough to share with me RE setting this tank up in my home, a new environment? Get yourself a good liquid based water testing kit (API or Nutrafin). I would also recommend testing the water everyday (possibly more to ) to start off with, just to make sure you have created the right enviroment for ur fish.


Not so Crucial Questions


Salt Water or Fresh water? - Well i guess i can answer this myself. I'd LOVE to have a SW setup but i'm not experienced enough yet, which is a shame as i'd LOVE to have live rock, and corals and vibrant marine fish in such a beautiful tank as the Regency 120 is, but i just don't think that will happen for a few years - So with that said, i'll be sticking to a Fresh Water setup, which is still beautiful as i've seen in some of your posts.
- Can you recommend some fish that would be similar to Marine fish? I know it's quite a daft question, but i've heard there are similar looking "Nemo" (Clown Anemonefish) fish for a Freshwater Tropical tank out there? Not that I've seen, there are many beautiful FW fish but you don't tent to get the same intensity of colours that you get with SW.
- I know you can't use Coral or Live Rock in a FW setup as they have organism's and bacteria that will simply, die, if submerged with out salt. but is there anything else you wonderful people could recommend other than fake coral (goooey!), drift wood and bubble curtains? If you want it you'll probably find it out there. It's all down to personal preference. Be away that certain things (bog wood, lime stone, crushed coral substrates) will have an effect on your water chemistry ir pH. Most fish don't really care about the decore of the tank its more for owners taste.
- Can anyone suggest a group of community fish that would get along in this FW environment? There are so many fish to choose from. You might be better selecting a group of fish that you like and then asking if they will work together and in your tank.

Hope that some of my answers have been helpful!

 

[Schmill]

Hi Neil & welcome to the forum.

Following Bob's reply above I figured I'd use the same format as it seems to work well

Hey guys!

Just want to start by saying, awesome forum.. have read through many of your posts over the last few weeks and you guys are great.
I'm from Sydney, Australia and this forum, whilst the furthest away from home, seems to be the best, so, hats off to you!

I'm pretty much new to the Fish game (i once upon a time had a 60L tank when i was 15 and had some tetra's etc but nothing to this scale!) - And would love any help/advice/tips i can get!
Very similar to myself!

I've just bought a second hand (18 month old) Aqua One Regency 120, 300L tank. It's the Black one, not the beech model, and is in excellent condition (i made sure that if i was going to get second hand, that it would look new!)

The tank comes with all the standard extras:

- 300W heater, some ornaments (tacky really, probably leave them out!)
- Aqua One CF1200 External Canister Filter (the media, or Filter looks quite dirty so I'll be changing that) with extra media
Careful, what do you mean by 'dirty'? There is a good chance it is just fully cycled. It 'may' be wanting a quick rinse in some old tank water, but if it has been running on the tank up until the point you pickup the tank, (pretty much anyway), then I would not recommend disturbing it untill you are up and running again. Just make sure that the filter is ideally kept full of the old tank water when you pick it up. There are shut-off taps that screw onto the filter and the pipes, so I would suggest just turning these off, to stop the water comping out, and transporting the filter upright like that.

- Aqua One Air Pump

- Standard Aqua One 2x30w twin Lighting (not sure if these are the older T8, or T5's? I'm guessing T8's) FYI - i only pick up the tank tomorrow!
I'm 90% sure that the 2 x 30W tubes are the T8's. Not sure if you are already aware, but generally the 'T' number is the tube diameter in 8ths of an inch. So a T8 is 8/8ths of an inch (ie. 1 inch) in diameter, whereas T5's are 5/8ths of an inch in diameter. Not much help right now I'm sure, but it will make it easier for you to check when you do pickup the tank

- 50 x Bristle Nose Cat fish (5cm - 15cm)

And some pH and other test kits (i'll find out tomorrow).

Now, any help with my next questions would be awesome guys, I'll put them in Bullet format to they are easier to read and reply to, I'm certainly not being rude! (PS. I'll be posting pictures throughout the progress of my tank for everyone!!)

Crucial Questions

- The tank is second hand, so what will this mean with the cycling of the tank with new water? (the old owner said he'd leave a little bit of water and the gravel to keep some of the old fish's environment) Should i be starting from scratch when filling her up, cleaning the tank vigorously?
Firstly I would not recommend transporting the tank with any water or gravel in it, most tank manufacturers will strongly recommend against this due to the increased strain and pressure it can place on the tank seams. As for cleaning it, totally up to you. If the tank has been properly maintained, and disease free for a reasonable amount of time then I'd be tempted to leave it, if however the tank seesm dirty in your opinion then I don't want you disappointed with your purchase so by all means clean it, just remember to take the precautions that Bob has mentioned above

- The filters obviously been used for quite some time, so i guess that part of the Cycling is done? (sorry guys, i've been reading up on fishless cycling but i'm still really oblivious to all this!) Possibly change the filters, or just clean them out?
As mentioned above, until you are completely up and running again I would not recommend changing or cleaning the filters if the filter has been running and the tank is disease free. The filter media is where the majority of the 'friendly bacteria' live, and moving the tank and their whole environment is going to be enough of an upset for them wihtout you disturbing them as well. I'd recommend leaving the filter full of old tank water, sealing it up, and transporting it intact, then just hooking it straight back up to the tank.

- The fish, now personally i don't really like Cat fish, but i'll get to the fish selection at a later time, my main concern is getting the cat fish back in the tank ASAP, in a controlled environment so that they do not die, or fall ill. I just want to make sure the fish are ok, then if i give them away later, that's fine but i just want to do the right thing by them. So how long do you think they will be out of the tank for? i.e. Setting the tank up again? Should i be taking them straight to my LPS instead the next day so that i know they will survive?
If the tank has been running up to the point that you collect them, and the tank has been regularly maintained then you should be fine to just fill the tank back up at your place, (making sure the temperature is about right), THEN start the filter and place them in. Keep an eye on the Ammonia & NitrIte tests for at least a week but it should be ok.

- Will i need to do a Full Fishless tank Cycle as i've read on the forums?
If the tank has been running up to the point that you collect it then it should remain fairly well cycled as long as the filter media is kept wet with tank water whilst you transport it, and you get everything up and running again once you get home. The catfish will actually help to keep the tank cycled by providing the waste for the nitrogen cycle. This is presuming the tank has had fish in up until the point that the seller emptied it for you to collect. If the filter has 'uncycled' by not being run, or by not having fish etc in the tank, then you WILL need to fishless cycle the tank, and also you wont want to put all those catfish in the tank straight away, they will be better going to the LFS (perhaps for some credit). This is where you really need some background info from the seller as to what the tank has been used for, how long ago the tank & filter were switched off & the tank drained etc.

- What is the best water treatments you could recommend? some of the LFS's I've been too have all tried to sell me different stuff
The general opinion on here seems to be that there are many products that won't help your tank to cycle, and a couple that 'might'. The key one will be a bottle of Household Ammonia solution IF you need to fishless cycle, if not you don't need to worry about that.
You WILL need a bottle of dechlorinator, and you'll need that as soon as you get the tank home for filling it up. Personally I use Seachem Prime for my 300L as it is quite concentrated, but due to the timescales you will be working with I think you will just need to get whatever your LFS have in stock. General advice for working with the 'larger' tanks is don't bother buying 'Aquarium Dechlorinator' from your LFS unless you really have to, instead buy the 'Pond Dechlorinator'. It is usually the same stuff, but again more concentrated so you get better value for your $.

- Any tricks or tips anyone would be kind enough to share with me RE setting this tank up in my home, a new environment?
Erm, I don't know if your floors are solid; If they are make sure that the base unit sits levelon the floor. Check it and if it is unlevel pad it out with hardboard or similar. It's best to find this out now rather than when the tank is full!
If the floor is a 'suspended' type, ie on wooden beams, as well as making sure it is level you need to make sure that it can take the weight, (300L of water will be 300Kg, and then you have the weight of the stand, the glass of the tank, and your gravel etc). The general guidlines for this is to place teh tank near an outside wall where the beams are usually supported, and align the tank so that it sits 'across' the beams, rather than along them, so that the weight is spread across as many beams as possible. As usual the standard disclaimer; Only a qualified structural engineer can tell you for certain whether your floor can take the weight of the tank, and I accept no responsibility for any damage or injury caused by the above 'guidance'
Now that that is out the way
There should also been a mat of polystyrene with the tank that sits on top of the stand, and under the tank. This is to remove any slight uneveness of the stand that there may be. Also as this is a second hand stand check to make sure that it hasn't bowed or anything from water damage.
Try to position the tank so that it is not in direct lighting from a window as that can lead to excess algae because of the sunlight.

Not so Crucial Questions


Salt Water or Fresh water? - Well i guess i can answer this myself. I'd LOVE to have a SW setup but i'm not experienced enough yet, which is a shame as i'd LOVE to have live rock, and corals and vibrant marine fish in such a beautiful tank as the Regency 120 is, but i just don't think that will happen for a few years - So with that said, i'll be sticking to a Fresh Water setup, which is still beautiful as i've seen in some of your posts.
- Can you recommend some fish that would be similar to Marine fish? I know it's quite a daft question, but i've heard there are similar looking "Nemo" (Clown Anemonefish) fish for a Freshwater Tropical tank out there?
None that I know of, but then I have stuck to fairly 'standard' community fish

- I know you can't use Coral or Live Rock in a FW setup as they have organism's and bacteria that will simply, die, if submerged with out salt. but is there anything else you wonderful people could recommend other than fake coral (goooey!), drift wood and bubble curtains?
Plants, plants, plants (and not the fake ones, although of course that is entirely up to you ) Java Fern, Amazon Sword, and Java Moss are some of the ones that are apparently easier to grow if you can get them, although each tank seems to vary with what suits it.

- Can anyone suggest a group of community fish that would get along in this FW environment?
There's so many choices and so many different opinions about what people like this is possibly the hardest question to answer!
I'd say have a look at your LFS, (ideally WITHOUT your wallet to remove temptation), write down the names of anything you like, then come on here and tell people what you have in mind, and what the opinions are on mixing them etc. One thing you'll neeed to decide is whether you want 'live bearing' fish, and if you want young. Fish such as Guppies can be very colourful, particularly the males, but they are also renowned for breeding like rabbits! Of course this will depend what other fish you chose too, as some will just LOVE a newly born fry lunch!


Guys, i know these are a lot of questions, and i know i have a million more but i would really appreciate anyone's help. I've fallen in love with the hobby and just want to do it right the first time!

Look forward to hearing back from anyone! =)



Neil

 

[neilgrisdale]

Hey guys,


Thanks SO much for the replies. Both have been extremely helpful. unfortunately we had a large hickup.

That being, the tank was simply TOO HEAVY to move.. we had three people.. and only the gravel, cat fish and about2% of the water in the tank but we just could NOT move it.. we had it up in the air, then had to put it back down as my friend was about to brake his back!

So plan B is we're going back on Saturday with 5 guys, and a Van to move it as the main problem is getting it up my stairs to my apartment on the first floor!

This means we're going to have to transfer all the cycled/treated water plus fish into a bucket, and the gravel into another bucket and take them seperately as the tank will be tilted a good 30 degree's im guessing whilst being taken up the stairs!

oh well

I hope we can manage it.

So i've asked my strata managers if i'm even allowed to have it there as it'll be weighing around 450KG as you know! some people say it'll be fine but some have said i need a structural engineering certificate so that should be fun.. i;m trying to get someone in this week, but if not till next week (queens bday on monday) i'll just have to fill the tank 10% maybe to be safe.. it's a 30 year old fully concrete and brick building so i hope i'm in the clear!!

At least i got to see the tank though, and it's beautiful!!!! absollutely stunning and the glass is so thick, it's amazing quality.. everythings in immaculate condition apart from the hood has some cracks on the corners.. which is quite common apaprently... oh well.. i got a great price for it, and touch up paint over some silicon or bog im sure will sort that out.

How is the wooden hood? I've heaps they are quite bad.. i was expecting the plastic one... but this looks very good quality..

Schmill, i saw your post on condensation.. oh dear.. what am i in for here?

Also, i think i'm going to have to give the cat fish away as i'll probably need to sort the tank out for a week or so.. putting 97% fresh water in a tank definitely won't be as simple as just adding, waiting a day, testing level, then putting fish in, even I know that much!!!

The filter though looks VERY dirty which is a great sign, lots of healthy bacteria and i guess it'll assist in the recycling of the tank in it's new home.. I've left the water in the filter.. and will cycle it in a bucket with the remaining tank water as soon as it's back in my home with the excess 3% water from the tank (not in my posession just yet!)

So you think this is even worth doing? Or will it be a lost cause and have to completely re-cycle the tank?

What about cleaning? obviously i'll be wiping everything down, but should i give the tank a full once over whilst with no water and not much gravel? or will this disturb the environment? spose there's a 50% chance i'll be able to put the cat fish back in, and 50% i'll have to give them away to a LFS for their sake of living..

Thanks heaps for helping out guys, i reaaaaaly appreciate it..

Cheers,
Neil

 

[waterdrop]

You do not need to transport all the "cycled/conditioned" water. The old water is only valuable to you for keeping your filter media wet and for the fish in their transport containers. Otherwise the water contains nothing valuable to you. You can re-start the tank in its new home with mainly fresh tap water that is conditioned and of course has been brought up to a reasonable temperature for acclimating the fish.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Schmill]

It worries me that you say that the tank was too heavy, and it reads like you are lifting the tank with the gravel in it

It REALLY isn't a good idea to move the tank with anything in it. When moving the tank you should ALWAYS remove all the water, the fish and the gravel. The tank is simply not designed to take the weight of anything in it without having the base panel fully supported.
Take out all the water, keep enough for the fish to be transported in and the filter to hold, and dump the rest of the water.
Take out all the gravel, keep it if you want it, if not chuck it, but DO take it out the tank.
Then transport the EMPTY tank.

At your place fill it with gravel if you brought it, fill it with fresh dechlorinated water, get it up to temperature, hook up the filter, and get everything running again.

Although if the filter is already disconnected now and isn't going to be run again until Saturday it probably won't have any bacteria left in it anyway, so could then just be cleaned out.

No idea with the wooden hoods I'm afraid, both of mine are of the plastic type and the condensation problem is only because of where the hood is siliconed to the tank.

 

[neilgrisdale]

Hi Guys,

Thanks heaps for your replies. Yes i thought that was the case when moving such a large tank, also for scratching purposes.

So you don't believe it's worth cycling the filter now (it's at my house) in a bucket of tap water (enough to make a closed loop, in, out) with what's already in the filter? (it's about 2 days gone without being turned on).

Maybe this is a good time to start fresh with new gravel (i'd only keep the old gravel if the fish were definitely going in right? as they have the goods amongst them, bacteria etc?)?

You're gravel looks great Schmill, what did you use in the end?

Also when filling the tank, i read you did it bucket by bucket with warm water then just added the decholrinator drops, correct? i guess that's the only way really living in an apartment especially for myself.

What about with Water changes? do you you use like a gravel cleaner to start the pumping of water the opposite way??

How's your CF1200 Canister going? it's alot bigger than i thought it would be.

Have you got any more pictures of your setup?

Thanks Guys,
Neil

 

[waterdrop]

(Admit I did not read the whole thread, so might be out of context....)

If you have a mature filter its usually well worth it to try to retain some of the bacteria. This can indeed be done by running the filter on a bucket or other container in which you added some ammonia to the dechlorinated water, ideally 3 to 5ppm concentration of ammonia. (again, apologies if I've got what you're trying to do all wrong, lol)

Also, has anyone discussed Pythons in this situation?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[neilgrisdale]

Hey thanks waterdrop.. I'll do just that!


Did you say Pythons??

 

[waterdrop]

Python

Click above to look around their website. I like them more for all the customization possible to build a system that fits your needs and all the custom threadings to fit different faucets. I believe there are other companies making similar things but I'm not sure of what all the other brands are. Also you can do a lot of these functions DIY and its especially easy if you have access to a laundry sink or such that has the big threading for garden hoses.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Schmill]

Hi Neil,

Yeah, I would still do as you intended and run the filter in a bucket of water, but like waterdrop says you will need to add ammonia to the water too to feed the bacteria.
Due to the time it has not be running for I would be tempted to think of the filter bacteria more of 'giving you a headstart' when you come to do the cycling, rather than them actually being ready to take on a full tank straight away.
I would keep the filter cycled in the bucket, then connect it up to the tank, get the tank filled and then start a fishless cycle a see where you are at.

With regards to filling the tank, and water changes etc etc, a couple of times I have used the hose to syphon from the tank and to refill, but I found that using a length of hose meant that the syphon pressure dropped enough to make my gravel vac not work well enough. Also in the time it takes me to get in the garage, get the hose, get it all layed out and not kinked, threaded through the letter box so the house doesn't get cold, and connected to the tap, I can almost as quickly do the water change using 4x 10 Litre buckets (twice), so remove 80L, replace 80L. Using the buckets also means I only add dechlor for the water that is in the bucket rather than treating the whole tank, and also I can temperature balance if needed. (I don't both temperature matching in the summer when the ground water is quite warm anyway, but I do in the winter when the water from the tap is icy cold).

Filter
The filter is quite big, but (and I'm touching wood here so as not to tempt fate!), it's going well. I've only had one problem and that was my own fault - lol
It should have 3 baskets in it, the bottom one with black plastic balls and topped with a blue sponge I think, then the next basket has the white ceramic tubes, and another blue sponge, then the top basket has a smaller pore black sponge, and you can fit floss in there as well to trap any of the really small bits of debris. I also fit the floss, but don't buy the replacement AquaOne floss that is cut to shape, I bought a MASSIVE sheet of foss from my local fish shop as they also do pond supplies, and then I just cut a square from it whenever the floss needs replacing
Oh, the problem I had with it... I took the impeller out of the pump to give it a clean and managed to drop it, snapping the ceramic shaft in the process
Thankfully a replacement impeller and shaft was fairly easy to source, arrived swiftly, and was reasonably priced

Gravel
The gravel that you have been given is not really going to contain much of benefit, presuming it is just gravel and not a plant substrate of any kind. Most of the 'good' bacteria live in the filter where there is a nice flow of water, and not much in the gravel. So if you like the gravel you can give it a wash in tap water, (if you like), and then reuse it, or if you don't like it you can chuck it, (or use it on the garden, or in pots etc), and get something else.
Personally I started with the 'natural' gravel in the 300L tank as you have seen, as that is what I had in my other tanks. Then not long into having the tank fully setup and with fish I decided to completely change the look -
I had decided to get more live plants, and so wanted a good substrate for them, and also had decided to go with a black backing on the tank to provide a contrast for the fish and plants, so decided to look for a dark substrate too. I was also unsure if the natural gravel I had used was a bit too large, and possibly sharp for my Corydoras catfish that swim around on it.
After much searching and researching I decided on getting JBL AquaBasis+ for the plant substrate. This is a very messy, powdery, clay based substance that goes under your gravel or sand, and provides a good rooting area for live plants. I then covered this with black Roman Gravel, as it seemed fairly small, smooth, and quite dark in colour, (and is renowned for retaining it's colour).

Some photos are below of before and after shots

BEFORE:

AFTER:

 

[neilgrisdale]

Thanks for the reply guys.

Schmill, thanks for the pics.. really do enjoy the new black look. I actually bought 15KG (Only 15KG so far as i still have 60KG of the old gravel in plastic bags still), of Black gravel at my specialist discus store on the w/e. I'm still unsure as to if i want to make the whole thing black, or just use the old stuff which is much, much finer, to block all the bad stuff rotting deep down, then to have the new bigger black gravel at the top (course I'd get enough to hide it from the viewers eye.. the two different grades, of course). But then when i do a gravel clean, i guess I'll reach far down enough to suck the white, cream gravel up and it'll all get mixed and be a nightmare to aqua scape back into place.. so i think i just need to stick with one, what do you think?

I also have a few questions now that I'm ready to cycle the tank pretty much. (just waiting on another heater, well two actually, as my 300W cracked because of my stupidity.. d'oh! )

I've read and obviously noticed by now (the tanks in my apartment as we speak - Photo's to come today or tomorrow!) that the tank is sooo deep. Now with cleaning the tank, have you found this a nightmare at all? What gravel cleaner are you using? how long is it, And how deep into the gravel do you clean? My guess is you probably do this when you do your weekly 30% water change?

I've bought a cheapo plastic (hope this is ok..?) tub to do the water changes as i don't particularly want to just dump the water in the tank (regardless of if i use warm water) and then treat the entire tank after. I'd rather pre treat it in the tub, then siphon it in.. This should be OK shouldn't it? I guess i could buy a third cheapo heater and just leave it in the tub to get it close to correct temp once it's time to add it back into the tank and fill the 30% back in.
How long would you recommend leaving the 80 or so litres in the tub with the dechorinator (seachem Prime) for? some people say pre treat it a few days but holy moly i think that's a tad excessive?
(i'll post images of everything i have, including tank, water change tub, ornaments, filter, etc etc V. soon!)

The filter's still just sitting in the kitchen with the plugs closed. I'm guessing all the beneficial bacteria is mostly gone.. But i guess as you said, it still may 'assist' in the cycling of the tank once ready to... yeah? I'm thinking about not even rinsing the media at all until the tank is next fully cycled. Would you recommend this? or just start from absolute scratch again? I could as I've said, put both hoses in my new plastic tub and fill her up with Prime and Stabilizer in the mean time till the tanks ready to go? Or is this a waste? still unsure

Again a filter question, the hoses are extreeeeeemely dirty, like the look horrible. Can i change these with fresh ones? once you see the images you'll get my drift but they are even beyond cleaning i'd say.. what implications are there for not keeping the dirty ones? i can't see much benefit from "good bacteria" still being alive there?! Even the hose to the duck bill is filthy! What do you reckon mate?

I can see why they changed from wooden hoods to Plastic.. even though the feel of the wooden ones is amazing.. i can see it's "warped" somehow and doesn't slide all the way to the back on the right side (in my apartment anyways) which is a shame, i don't think it is noticeable.. but being a perfectionist and all, but yeah.. just one of those things the owner would notice, but doesn't bother me too much.. Also the lack of anti condensation cover alarms me a little.. Hmmmm! i might be building something myself here it looks...

The cabinet is on fresh carpet.. should i put a flat piece of wood underneath the whole thing? Will it 'dig in' and ruin the area of carpet it occupies if i don't? maybe just pieces of cardboard on the corners? 500KG total weight isn't light, by any means!

I have a billion more Questions but if i ask them all, you'll see them and run! so let's start with the first billion.

Thanks guys, promise pics will be up ASAP (once i can nick the g/f's DSLR!)

Cheers,
N

 

[Schmill]

Ok, lets take it from the top

Personally I would stick to using just one type of gravel. Although there will always be a tendancy for finer stuff to move to the bottom, and larger stuff to move to the top, I don't think it would be sufficient to keep the 2 permanantly seperated during gravel vacuums etc, (especially when you consider that the suction of the gravel vac will lift the lighter stuff and not the heavy stuff, so it will then likely dump all the fine stuff on the top of your new dark gravel). I think in the long run if you tried to do one on top of the other you would end up regreting it.
One thing I have seen done though that can look quite effective is to have different 'areas' of the tank, for example you might have your front left corner as black, and the rest of the tank with the other gravel. This is easier to maintain as you don't have one on top of the other, but it all depends on how you think you will scape your tank.

Yes the tanks are deep, ironically it's one of the features that makes these tanks so impressive to look at, and also such a pain to maintain - lol
I have a fold away metal stool stored behind my tank, because despite being over 6ft tall myself, there is no way I'd be able to reach the substrate in all areas of the tank for arranging plants etc without it.
I have also bought one of the available magnetic algae cleaners. On a tank this size these really are useful as you can clean the entire tank glass whilst keeping your hands & arms nice and dry on the outside of the tank
Well... when I say the 'entire tank glass' thats not strictly true as you can't get into the curved corners of the tank, but for those areas I use a wahing up brush! The type I use is luike a plastic scouring sponge on a handle and it works well.
As for gravel vacing I just use a large one that uses the basic syphon principle. I did have to add a section of hose pipe to it though so that it would go into the bucket on the floor, rather than just all over the floor
As for how deep you should go into the gravel, a few things affect it. If you have no live plants then I would go all the way, you want all that muck out as it is providing practically no advantage to you, but it a great housing area for bad bacteria that can cause sicknesses in the fish.
If you have live plants it's a bit trickier, as you will want to clean the gravel as best as possible, but not disturb it too much around the plants, as they will actually use the muck for the roots to feed from.
Again size of the grains/stones of your substrate will play a factor. Looking at the 2 extremes if you had large pebbles over the floor of your tank you would need to remove them all each clean as uneaten food and waste will fall down in the gaps between them, if you have sand then the grains sit so tighly together that food and waste cannot really get between them so when you vac you only slightly disturb the very surface. All other grades of substrate will fit somewhere between these 2 cases, it really is a case of "suck-it-and-see".
For me personally I have the plant substrate under my gravel so I don't vac too deeply as I REALLY don't want to disturb that, but also the Roman gravel is fairly fine, so I find the food and the waste very rarely make it much under the surface of the gravel anyway.

As for waterchanges, what you've done sounds fine. I have 4 cheapo plastic buckets (10L each) that I use for mine. I fill each one with cold water in the kitchen and add the dechlor to the bucket as it fills. Then I take the full bucket inot the living room, climb onto my stool and pour the water into the tank. Dechlor apparently works pretty much instantly, so there are no worries there. Also with a 300L tank, and changing 80L of water I have found that as long as the tap water isn't too cold it will barely affect the tank temperature, so I don't worry about temperature matching. In the winter when the tap water is VERY cold I tend to put half a kettle of boiling water into each bucket along with the cold just to take the edge off.

If the filter is still sealed now then I would think that any beneficial bacteria will be dead. They need both food, (usually in the form of ammonia), and also a pretty much constant flow of oxygenated water to survive. I would think that now all you have is effectively a bucket of stagnant water that is a prime bredding ground for all sorts of nasties. Taking into account how long it has now been sitting I would personally be tempted to take the filter apart and give it all a really good clean (using just clean, fresh tap water). Make the most of it, this is the ONLY time you will be able to use tap water to wash the filter as at the moment you have no 'friendly bacteria' to worry about.
You will also want to pickup some Ammonia Solution ready for when you start cycling the tank as you are now going to need to proceed with an full fishless cycle when the tank is fully setup.

With regards to the hoses, it's totally up to you, you can either buy new ones, or you can buy pipe brushes, which are effectivly a circular brushhead on the end of a long flexible shaft. You will likely want one of these brushes anyway so that you can clean the pipes a couple of times a year. They will always get a dirty brown looking film build up on the inside of them, but regular cleaning will stop it building up so much that it affects water flow.

Believe me, the plastic hoods warp too - lol
On my hood there is a flap and the front and at the back of the lid that runs the length of the tank, but because these sit directly above the T5 lamps, even with reflectors on the lamps the heat makes the plastic bow. I've got around this by just turning the flaps over at each waterchange, but each hood has it's own issues believe me. My biggest annoyance with the plastic hood is that the condensation builds up on it, and then were it is not sealed PERFECTLY against the rim of the tank, I get little drips or trickles down the outside of the tank. I am planning on taking a blade to sealent when I get time and then completely resealing the lid to the tank to try and stop it.

As for the carpet, well yes, that much weight will have a tendancy to crush the carpet under it, but I don't think there is much avoiding that. You might be able to minimise the efefct by placing a section of plywood under the cabinet as long as it is the same size, or ideally slightly bigger than the cabinet so as to spread the weight across the carpet, but you will still be able to tell where it has been. The thing is, do you really plan on moving the tank?? - lol That will involve another full strip down etc so make sure you have the tank in the right place first, (and if it is to do with moving out of a rented property then the tank isn't really likely to crush the carpet any worse than a display cabinet, or a wardrobe would anyway)

Right I think thats me done

Onto the pictures and the next billion

 

[neilgrisdale]

Thanks for the info Schmill.

I think washing the filter media will be the best option too. as you said, all the good stuff is most probably long gone by now.

I've got the semi approval from a structual engineer. I think it will be ok so the next step is protecting the carpet, i've heard egg crates and foam is the best but i'll need a consistant and flat piece from somewhere and cut it right to level the tank to gravity's natural position. I've heard EHEIM do floor plates but i'm not sure about these nor can i find any! that's the first step before i start cycling her!

It's the weekend nearly so i'm looking forward to it as i'll probably be starting it off this weekend once i get the carpet protecting and tank leveling complete. need to find my bloody level!

I do need to get a heater though, would you recommend just the one 300w, like a eheim jager or Fluval.. or two 200-250w. one on each side in case one fails? i'm still unsure which to do, i've nearly impulse bought one solution, then decided on the other.. arrrgh!

i promise pics will be coming soon, just need to get that camera.. tonight or tomorrow for sure!!

So you just have a standard size gravel filter.. like the suction bit is only like 20 cm long? then the long hose of course? i was thinking like a long, long tube piece, like 50-60 cm to make it easier, but then i guess it won't effectively suck the bad stuff from the gravel now properly will it?!

photo's coming soon!!

 

[neilgrisdale]

Oh yeah, nearly forgot.

LIGHTING! I have the older wooden hood, so obviously the two T8's in there instead of your T5's..
One purple, one white.. how will these compare.. are their conversion, or "Upgrade" kits?

i know there is also T8 -> T5 conversion kits with the extenders and new ballast.. but is it worth it?

Hmmm!