When ammonia drops but not nitrite and other cycling issues

[Rocky998]

Yes, I forgot to mention - the API test. After one drop it is the palest of blue, then with each subsequent drop it darkens. I don’t mind doing a water change I just wondered if it will interrupt the cycle or something, which to a novice like me, appeared to be near completion.

Same with my KH... It took 13 drops for it too change! What idid once I realized after 5 drops it want changing, I would add the drops by 4 or 5 until it changed and once it changes I took a few drops away from the next test to pin point the amount

 

[enricosonic]

Same with my KH... It took 13 drops for it too change! What idid once I realized after 5 drops it want changing, I would add the drops by 4 or 5 until it changed and once it changes I took a few drops away from the next test to pin point the amount

Yeah I did something similar and finally lost count. Then I was so far from anything on the chart I gave up and tested the tap. I did add baking soda BTW, and I’ll wait a bit then perhaps a water change.

 

[Essjay]

The API KH tester turns from blue to yellow at the end point so if yours is blue after the first drop, the KH is not zero.

Can you remind me - have you added any baking soda? If you have, that's why the KH is high. Baking soda is added to raise KH. If you have added some, you shouldn't need to add any more unless KH drops really low in the tank.

My KH is 3 dH (it takes 3 drops to change colour). I do nothing to my tanks except weekly water changes. After the cycle finishes and you've replaced just about all the tank water with tap water, your KH should then be the same as your tap water at around 4 dH which is slightly higher than mine.



So - if you have added baking soda, keep an eye on your tank's KH but don't add more unless it drops really low. Then once you have fish, keep up with those weekly water changes.

 

[Rocky998]

Yeah I did something similar and finally lost count. Then I was so far from anything on the chart I gave up and tested the tap. I did add baking soda BTW, and I’ll wait a bit then perhaps a water change.

Ah ok... The baking soda is probably throwing the results off

 

[enricosonic]

The API KH tester turns from blue to yellow at the end point so if yours is blue after the first drop, the KH is not zero.

Can you remind me - have you added any baking soda? If you have, that's why the KH is high. Baking soda is added to raise KH. If you have added some, you shouldn't need to add any more unless KH drops really low in the tank.

My KH is 3 dH (it takes 3 drops to change colour). I do nothing to my tanks except weekly water changes. After the cycle finishes and you've replaced just about all the tank water with tap water, your KH should then be the same as your tap water at around 4 dH which is slightly higher than mine.



So - if you have added baking soda, keep an eye on your tank's KH but don't add more unless it drops really low. Then once you have fish, keep up with those weekly water changes.

I did add baking soda. It took over 20 drops to change the color on the KH test. I’m thinking I’ll just do a water change now unless you advise otherwise. All parameters are good except for the one I seem to have altered myself by adding the baking soda. I had it backwards, the effect of baking soda on KH.

 

[Essjay]

You need the KH high for cycling. The bacteria we want to grow need inorganic carbon - KH - to grow properly. KH also stabilises pH, and the bacteria need a pH above 6.5, preferably higher, to grow properly.


The first time I did a fishless cycle, my pH crashed and the cycle stalled because of my low KH. Once I added baking soda the cycle started again. So next time I did a fishless cycle I added baking soda when I set up the tank and the cycle ran smoothly with no stalling.
I wouldn't do a water change until the cycle is finished.

 

[enricosonic]

You need the KH high for cycling. The bacteria we want to grow need inorganic carbon - KH - to grow properly. KH also stabilises pH, and the bacteria need a pH above 6.5, preferably higher, to grow properly.


The first time I did a fishless cycle, my pH crashed and the cycle stalled because of my low KH. Once I added baking soda the cycle started again. So next time I did a fishless cycle I added baking soda when I set up the tank and the cycle ran smoothly with no stalling.
I wouldn't do a water change until the cycle is finished.

I’ll wait it out then. pH is 7.2-7.4 and KH is certainly high. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Rocky998]

You need the KH high for cycling. The bacteria we want to grow need inorganic carbon - KH - to grow properly. KH also stabilises pH, and the bacteria need a pH above 6.5, preferably higher, to grow properly.


The first time I did a fishless cycle, my pH crashed and the cycle stalled because of my low KH. Once I added baking soda the cycle started again. So next time I did a fishless cycle I added baking soda when I set up the tank and the cycle ran smoothly with no stalling.
I wouldn't do a water change until the cycle is finished.

I have gold water for cycling I suppose ... But I hate testing for my KH

 

[enricosonic]

I have gold water for cycling I suppose ... But I hate testing for my KH

I’ll have to be diligent about water changes (no big deal I’ll teach my kids how, too) but I do like the fish options for our soft water.

 

[mbsqw1d]

@enricosonic FYI - I've decided to ask this question:

Thread 'Acidic tank' https://www.fishforums.net/threads/acidic-tank.479598/

I think it applies to you. Keep an eye on any responses

 

[enricosonic]

@enricosonic FYI - I've decided to ask this question:

Thread 'Acidic tank' https://www.fishforums.net/threads/acidic-tank.479598/

I think it applies to you. Keep an eye on any responses

I saw your thread and will be watching - thanks!

 

[enricosonic]

Once my tank is cycled, what % water change is recommended? Are we talking 90%?

 

[Rocky998]

Yes, it is recommended to o a 90% water change or more when finished with cycling.

Once my tank is cycled, what % water change is recommended? Are we talking 90%?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

When is comes to have any real understanding ot water parameters and the bio-chemisrty of cycling. it takes a bit more than what appears in this thread or even in the cycling articles here.

I strongly suggest to the OP to have a read here https://fins.actwin.com/aquariafaq.html
When there click on "Your First Aquarium"
Then scroll down to and click on "Practical Water Chemsitry"

The FINS site has good info which is why I wanted you to go the long way to get here https://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

This will give you a better iunderstanding of what is happening in your tank.

Finally, there are a lot of voices in this thread giving you advice. You are also searching for help yourself. The result is not help it is confusion. I suggest you select a single person to whom you will listen. Ignore all others. What will happen this way is if you choose a person which knows what they are doing you will end up with a cycled tank that is stable. If you choose somebody who does not really know what they are doing, you will not. If you fail you will know not to trust that person in the future and also what not to do.

1. The nitrifying bacteria need inorganic carbon. Often this comes from cabonates/bicarbonates as well as from CO2. Some plants can use these as well as can inverts. Bear in mind that calcium carbonate is a major source for building shells and bones. If you have no KH your bacteria cannot multiply or even process ammonia etc.

2, Ammonia comes in 2 forms as note in this thread. Ammonia (NH3) and Ammonium (NH4). The plants prefer the NH4 and the bacteria prefer the NH3. The plants can use NH4 much faster than the bacteria can use NH3. However, the plants do not create nitrite and may actually use nitrate.

3. The bacteria have receptors for both ammonia and ammonium, however, the use the ammonium much less effectively than NH3. This is why a cycle appears to stall in acid pH. It does not stall, it greatly slows and it also means more bacteria are needed to do the same job.

4. The approach to cycling a planted tank is different than an unplanted one. For one, live plants arrive with nitrifying bacteria on them. With live plants you are also seeding some bacteria. I wrote the three main cycling articles for the site. I had planned to write a 4th which dealt with cycling with plants and/or with seeding bacteria either from a bottle or from established tanks. I never did as I had issues back then (8+ years ago) with site management and I voted with my feet. I am not a fan of the article that now exists here on cycling with plants. For one you almost have no need to test for nitrite in a planted tank and the reason to test for nitrate is more often to learn that you need to add a bit.

One of the most important factors in a silent cycle and the use of ammonia is it is a fairly complex problem. Both the quantity and type of plants one has determine how much ammonia, if any, one should add. But the most important thing is at the start one should plant the tank but not be adding any ammonia at all at that time. The plants should be allowed to establish before one adds ferts (yes ammonia is a plant fert). This requires one to be somewhat familiar with plants as well as cycling.

 

[enricosonic]

Here are my current tank parameters, as far as what I have the ability to test for. Planted tank, about 6 weeks in:

GH: approx. 55 ppm
KH: too high to measure on my test chart > 200 ppm
pH: 7.2
ammonia: < .25 according to recent history of daily testing, I expect it to be at zero this time tomorrow.
nitrite: 0
nitrate: between 20-40 ppm