Wheat in flaked foods.

[Divinityinlove]

I ordered Cobalt flakes since they were recommended as a high quality flaked foods on some reviews article, I wanted some flakes for small feedings between my frozen high protein feedings as I imagine I'm over feeding protein with the frozen stuff.

However, I didnt check the ingredients and assumed it'd be good stuff. Today it arrived and I can see "wheat flour" as one of the first few ingredients. I can't imagine this could be that great if it has wheat flour, am I wrong?

Can you please recommend a high quality flaked foods which can be used between high protein feedings such as brine shrimp and blood worms. I plan to reduce bloodworm, brine shrimp, krill to three times per week and the rest just a small amount of flakes... If you consider a better balance please suggest as to your experience.

 

[GaryE]

Step away from ingredients for a moment. What's the fibre content? That's where a lot of flakes and pellets come up short.

I haven't used cobalt for years, so I don't know.

 

[Divinityinlove]

Step away from ingredients for a moment. What's the fibre content? That's where a lot of flakes and pellets come up short.

I haven't used cobalt for years, so I don't know.

What should the fibre content be? Here is a photo, thoughts?

 

[GaryE]

That's pretty good. A lot of foods seem to sidestep the fact that bugs have exoskeletons, and roughage matters. 4% is excellent.

 

[Byron]

You haven't mentioned the fish species, and this must factor in; high protein for example is not at all good for Corydoras.

Another thing I would mention is that frozen food is not usually the most nutritious, compare the analysis of the nutrient levels with the above. Bloodworms are not recommended for more than once a week. Shrimp is better, but again compared to wquaity prepared foods may be significantly lacking in essential nutrient value. Frozen daphnia is good for a frozen.

Fluval Bug Bites are probably one of the best foods because it is really natural, and it is low (or lacking) in the meals. Omega One and New Life Spectrum are also quality prepared foods. Knowing the fish species is still something to factor in though.

One of our members did a comparison:

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[Nuttawet]

Do u mean Fluval Bug Bites or Fluval Bub Bites?

 

[Byron]

Do u mean Fluval Bug Bites or Fluval Bub Bites?

Ha, bug, yes. I am a fast typist, so much so that many words get misspelt and some like this are actual words so it doesn't get highlighted and I miss them.

 

[jaylach]

This thread made me rather curious so I did a bit of quick research. Not extensive at all so don't take as total fact.

1) It seems that only a few types of fish, such as perch, can digest wheat.

2) It is in just about all dry food, even my Hikari Carnivore pellets.

3) It is harmless but useless as to nutrition for the vast majority of fish.

4) It is used as a filler and binder due to being cheap on the manufacturing end. Cheap cost for filler and glutton as a binder.

Just thought that I'd toss in what I saw.

 

[Divinityinlove]

You haven't mentioned the fish species, and this must factor in; high protein for example is not at all good for Corydoras.

Another thing I would mention is that frozen food is not usually the most nutritious, compare the analysis of the nutrient levels with the above. Bloodworms are not recommended for more than once a week. Shrimp is better, but again compared to wquaity prepared foods may be significantly lacking in essential nutrient value. Frozen daphnia is good for a frozen.

Fluval Bug Bites are probably one of the best foods because it is really natural, and it is low (or lacking) in the meals. Omega One and New Life Spectrum are also quality prepared foods. Knowing the fish species is still something to factor in though.

One of our members did a comparison:

Contact Support

I was going to buy the bug bites,.I'll go ahead. I had until now read that frozen is best. Are you referring to flaked when you said "prepared"?

I'm feeding guppies, tetras, a betta female and 3 goldfish.

Why bloodworm once per week max? Is it too high in protein?

I'm a bit confused why frozen food wouldnt be nutritious? As oppose to dried? Dried is more processed and the frozen is sometimes frozen live. I thought it was the most nutritious after live. Same as human food, frozen vs packeted dry foods, I'd have frozen!

 

[Divinityinlove]

This thread made me rather curious so I did a bit of quick research. Not extensive at all so don't take as total fact.

1) It seems that only a few types of fish, such as perch, can digest wheat.

2) It is in just about all dry food, even my Hikari Carnivore pellets.

3) It is harmless but useless as to nutrition for the vast majority of fish.

4) It is used as a filler and binder due to being cheap on the manufacturing end. Cheap cost for filler and glutton as a binder.

Just thought that I'd toss in what I saw.

Yeah I pretty think they do the same for human food. My other flakes brand just lists "cereals" which could also be wheat. I'd prefer not to feed anything cereals and wheat tbh which doesn't eat it in nature. I don't feed any food to my cats either that lists cereals.

Thanks for the input. I do think I'll chuck these flakes tbh.

 

[Byron]

I was going to buy the bug bites,.I'll go ahead. I had until now read that frozen is best. Are you referring to flaked when you said "prepared"?

I'm feeding guppies, tetras, a betta female and 3 goldfish.

Why bloodworm once per week max? Is it too high in protein?

I'm a bit confused why frozen food wouldnt be nutritious? As oppose to dried? Dried is more processed and the frozen is sometimes frozen live. I thought it was the most nutritious after live. Same as human food, frozen vs packeted dry foods, I'd have frozen!

Bug Bites would be a good regular food for all fish mentioned. Goldfish also need veggie too, and something like Omega One's Veggie Flake would be ideal, and good for the other fish as well. "Preepared" refers to any type of fish food that is dried, like flake, pellet, bug bites, pellets, tabs, etc. If it comes in a can and is not refrigerated nor fresh frozen, it is "prepared" and it has various minerals, etc that are not easy to get in frozen.

Which brings me to the frozen...compare the nutrients in the frozen (should be listed on the pack, or check the manufacturer's online site) with the nutrients on the can of one of the prepared foods I recommended. Quite a difference. Frozen is largely water, and the value lies in the fact that it is the closest in texture to live foods and thus relished by fish. But just as with humans, our liking of the food does not mean it is as wholesome as something better. Prepared foods have necessary added minerals, vitamins, that are frankly next to impossible to get even with live foods depending upon the food.

Bloodworms have too much of something, I can never remember, but any article on foods and any biologist will say much the same thing, a once a week treat. Not a staple food, too much is missing.

 

[GaryE]

I go out of my way to avoid prepared foods, except for bug bites flakes, and colour foods. The colour foods are not for nutrition, but for ... colour. I like to cheat with my rainbows. My South American fishtanks get flake at the very most 3 times a week, depending on the species. Some fish never see flakes. It's no use. They won't eat them.
I culture foods, and haven't bought frozen for years. I'm allergic to bloodworms, a common problem for fishkeepers who react to a protein found in the fly larvae people think are worms.
There is no prepared pellet or flake that does not decrease egg production in my fish. If I want my fish to pack on weight without breeding, then most flakes are great. I wish the prepared diet did the job, because it would be so much easier.
If I do want egg production, which I see as a strong indicator of food quality, I rotate live artemia (freshly hatched), white worms and grindal worms (home cultured), Daphnia in summer, along with mosquito larvae and wingless fruit flies (home cultured). I tend to keep small insectivores.
For herbivorous fish, I find the standard green flake types quite good. They tend to be unspecialized eaters.

When I used to breed large numbers of Apistogramma dwarf Cichlid species, bloodworms were the staple. I saw the same drop off with prepared food I see now. As the allergy developed, I improvised and took the old beefheart recipes that were used before seafood was available and modified them to use shrimp and white fleshed fish as a base. The actual beefheart is a relic of bygone times, but the principle behind the homecooked meals was solid. With a food processor, some vegetable baby food, avian vitamins, spirulina and astaxanthin algae, bound with the unavoidable but not good gelatin, I made slabs of my own frozen seafood, and had excellent results.
On flake of pellets I'd get a third the number of fry as I did as I did on a diet using home recipes, whiteworms and artemia.

Yes, it is extra work. I really should do that again though. It's a thing I dropped along the way, and now I live right beside the sea with easy access to fresh seafood...

I have a few killie species that can be fed high protein flake when they are juvenile, and they grow like kids fed big macs on them. I wean them from that diet as they approach breeding age though.

 

[Divinityinlove]

Bug Bites would be a good regular food for all fish mentioned. Goldfish also need veggie too, and something like Omega One's Veggie Flake would be ideal, and good for the other fish as well. "Preepared" refers to any type of fish food that is dried, like flake, pellet, bug bites, pellets, tabs, etc. If it comes in a can and is not refrigerated nor fresh frozen, it is "prepared" and it has various minerals, etc that are not easy to get in frozen.

Which brings me to the frozen...compare the nutrients in the frozen (should be listed on the pack, or check the manufacturer's online site) with the nutrients on the can of one of the prepared foods I recommended. Quite a difference. Frozen is largely water, and the value lies in the fact that it is the closest in texture to live foods and thus relished by fish. But just as with humans, our liking of the food does not mean it is as wholesome as something better. Prepared foods have necessary added minerals, vitamins, that are frankly next to impossible to get even with live foods depending upon the food.

Bloodworms have too much of something, I can never remember, but any article on foods and any biologist will say much the same thing, a once a week treat. Not a staple food, too much is missing.

Okay, fair points. Why do people feed fry live foods if the prepared foods have more nutrients?

 

[Essjay]

In the wild, fish feed on a number of live creatures which gives them a range of nutrients. The choice of live or frozen food available from LFS is very limited and there is not enough variety to provide the fish with everything they need.
People who breed their own live food usually have several varieties on the go so they have access to a wider range of live/frozen food than is available commercially.

 

[Divinityinlove]

Bug Bites would be a good regular food for all fish mentioned. Goldfish also need veggie too, and something like Omega One's Veggie Flake would be ideal, and good for the other fish as well. "Preepared" refers to any type of fish food that is dried, like flake, pellet, bug bites, pellets, tabs, etc. If it comes in a can and is not refrigerated nor fresh frozen, it is "prepared" and it has various minerals, etc that are not easy to get in frozen.

Which brings me to the frozen...compare the nutrients in the frozen (should be listed on the pack, or check the manufacturer's online site) with the nutrients on the can of one of the prepared foods I recommended. Quite a difference. Frozen is largely water, and the value lies in the fact that it is the closest in texture to live foods and thus relished by fish. But just as with humans, our liking of the food does not mean it is as wholesome as something better. Prepared foods have necessary added minerals, vitamins, that are frankly next to impossible to get even with live foods depending upon the food.

Bloodworms have too much of something, I can never remember, but any article on foods and any biologist will say much the same thing, a once a week treat. Not a staple food, too much is missing.

Why do people feed fry live foods if the prepared foods have more nutrients?

I go out of my way to avoid prepared foods, except for bug bites flakes, and colour foods. The colour foods are not for nutrition, but for ... colour. I like to cheat with my rainbows. My South American fishtanks get flake at the very most 3 times a week, depending on the species. Some fish never see flakes. It's no use. They won't eat them.
I culture foods, and haven't bought frozen for years. I'm allergic to bloodworms, a common problem for fishkeepers who react to a protein found in the fly larvae people think are worms.
There is no prepared pellet or flake that does not decrease egg production in my fish. If I want my fish to pack on weight without breeding, then most flakes are great. I wish the prepared diet did the job, because it would be so much easier.
If I do want egg production, which I see as a strong indicator of food quality, I rotate live artemia (freshly hatched), white worms and grindal worms (home cultured), Daphnia in summer, along with mosquito larvae and wingless fruit flies (home cultured). I tend to keep small insectivores.
For herbivorous fish, I find the standard green flake types quite good. They tend to be unspecialized eaters.

When I used to breed large numbers of Apistogramma dwarf Cichlid species, bloodworms were the staple. I saw the same drop off with prepared food I see now. As the allergy developed, I improvised and took the old beefheart recipes that were used before seafood was available and modified them to use shrimp and white fleshed fish as a base. The actual beefheart is a relic of bygone times, but the principle behind the homecooked meals was solid. With a food processor, some vegetable baby food, avian vitamins, spirulina and astaxanthin algae, bound with the unavoidable but not good gelatin, I made slabs of my own frozen seafood, and had excellent results.
On flake of pellets I'd get a third the number of fry as I did as I did on a diet using home recipes, whiteworms and artemia.

Yes, it is extra work. I really should do that again though. It's a thing I dropped along the way, and now I live right beside the sea with easy access to fresh seafood...

I have a few killie species that can be fed high protein flake when they are juvenile, and they grow like kids fed big macs on them. I wean them from that diet as they approach breeding age though.

I feed this brand, and have been feeding my guppy fry the Red Rotifers item. I also bought cyclops, krill for all fish ans the veggie item for my goldfish (they come towards it and then go away again as though they "smell" it and don't like it. It is mostly spinach so unsure why since I boil spinach leaves for them myself and they love it!
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I generally always stock up on Brine shrimp quartet, tropical quartet and tropical feast. Mainly it is brine shrimp, blood worm and mysis with garlic and spirulina.

I am unsure why it is said here that daphnia is ok frozen (what difference is there between these foods that daphnia is ok and not others?)

What do you think of the red rotifiers for my guppy fry? Should I go back to hatching brine shrimp babies? The frozen brine shrimp are a big more grown out but the young fry do nibble at it, just when they're very little I think they prefer the freshly hatched.

I've noticed this time round not feeding freshly hatched brine shrimp, the guppy fry are growing muchhhh slower!