What's Wrong With My Archers?

[maurizio]

Hello all,
after more than two weeks from the arrival of the rainbows, my archers are stubbornly hidden in the darkest corners of the mangroves, avoiding the surface like hell: they keep staying there all day, even at feeding time, the only apparent exception being when the lights go off, when they finally come slowly out to slowly munch the food the rainbows didn't get.

The thing is, the two species do share pretty much the same hideouts, e.g. at night, and I never saw any evidence of direct distress caused by the rainbows: they simply peacefully pass in front of each other, like all well-educated fish should do. Still, this behaviour clearly started about 48 h after the Boesemani went in; the only other changes occurred during that time was that the water was slowly turned from SG 1.002 to fresh, in order to give an easier startup also to the Vallis. I have also tried to reduce the exposure to light, covering parts of the tank with black sheets of plastic, but to no avail. Another situation when the archers finally appear more confident, and indeed jump out of their hideout and go swimming below the filter output, is when I start changing the water, and the water level goes down: they always reacted in this way, and apparently still do, and I have no clue why.

Today I used frozen mussels chopped, which sinks, and that was the only reason why they ate, 'cause it literally bumped onto their mouths, down in their mangrove caves: can you imagine, archers avoiding the surface?? I hope to get some flies tomorrow, to give them some reasons to stay up...

Water parameters are OK, with the usual exception of high NO3 (I start with a tap water of 39 mg/l...), which never appeared to be a problem, so far.

The reason itself I got the rainbows, risking overstocking, was to make the archers a bit more confident, but apparently it went way the opposite direction... Note that the archers are by now 8-9 cm, versus the barely 4 cm of the rainbows...

Any clue of what is going on, and how to act? I posted temporarily a movie in here.

 

[HX67]

Hi, M.

So did you add salt to the water later or is the water still strictly fresh?

 

[maurizio]

hi, no, still fresh, giving some time to the plants before starting to stress them with salt!
Could it be that? Microlepis should be fine in freshwater...

 

[HX67]

I admit I have no experience in microlepis, whatsoever.
But I usually get a very clear reaction from brackish water fish when their salinity is dropped. Not that a .002 drop should be severe, but it is a drop.

Worth trying?
I mean, if you are going to be increasing salinity to some extent eventually, why not start with small amounts now? Small additions shouldn't make too big a difference to the Vals, I think.

The fish look good, otherwise, I think. So no need to panic, there.

 

[nmonks]

Two thoughts.

Yes, by all means try adding a little salt. Not enough to stress the plants or the rainbowfish; say, SG 1.002. See if anything changes. T. microlepis is a freshwater species, but if these were caught in brackish water, or for some reason don't like your water chemistry, a "taste" of salt might help.

However, the main thing I'm thinking is that your tank looks rather small for them. They like the shade, but if the roots are all at one end, maybe they fell boxed in somehow? Try rearranging the roots, changing the lighting level, changing the flow of water (calm it down a bit, the rainbows look like they're pushed about) and see what happens.

Cheers, Neale

 

[maurizio]

Thank you both, guys. Now I have enough advice to work on for the next couple of weeks. Will let you know! To me, it is interesting, but for the fish it is probably just stressing...

However, the main thing I'm thinking is that your tank looks rather small for them. They like the shade, but if the roots are all at one end, maybe they fell boxed in somehow? Try rearranging the roots, changing the lighting level, changing the flow of water (calm it down a bit, the rainbows look like they're pushed about) and see what happens.

They indeed used to stay on the root side, but on the upper part, at least: now they're really burying themselves at the bottom! I was trying to somehow make two different environments between which to choose, an open swimming area, and a safe retreat among the roots: looks like they only appreciate the second one... but that's why I hoped the rainbows would help, by populating the open area...

Cheers!

 

[nmonks]

Ah now, dither fish are tricky. They need to be bold, yes, but the other part of the equation is they need to swim *at the top* of the tank. So while the Rainbows may be doing admirable work as colour and activity, they may not be working well as dither fish. Mollies or guppies might be better? Worth a shot, anyway.

Cheers, Neale

 

[maurizio]

geez, I had NO IDEA...
I'm afraid the tank is at the edge of overstocking, so I'm done with the inhabitants. Just changed 50% with 1.002, and more will come in the weekend.
Thanks!

 

[nmonks]

I'd risk it.

Dither fish are supposed to convey to bottom-dwelling fish that there are no predators above the waterline. So fish that stay at the top fulfil that role by being close to surface and (so bottom-dwellers think) more aware of predators like herons and kingfishers. You might try something like Platies that aren't too big. The main thing is the fish need to stay at the top, behave boldly, and don't spook the Archers. Does that make sense?

Cheers, Neale

geez, I had NO IDEA...
I'm afraid the tank is at the edge of overstocking, so I'm done with the inhabitants. Just changed 50% with 1.002, and more will come in the weekend.
Thanks!

 

[maurizio]

sure does. I just read the paper of Loiselle (1979): how interesting!
Still, my 3 archers have enjoyed top to middle waters until 3 weeks ago, when somehow their world fell apart!? They did tend to be on the reclusive side, but still happily came out at dinner. The dither was supposed to be a mere help, plus a needed addiction to a tank whose population of glassfish was steadily decreasing.
Greetings!

 

[HX67]

Any changes with the archers, M?

 

[maurizio]

Any changes with the archers, M?

Hi HX,
nope, unfortunately. Here's where my frequent travels don't help: I just came back on sunday evening, and today I'm off again... How can I possibly be a good fish keeper? Yet, I try my best, I knew it would require some effort...

Status: water's back at SG ~1.002 @ 25 C, and so far it's the only change my time and presence allowed. The archers still stay hidden, but as soon as the lights go off out they are, swimming around. With the mangroves (only the old 3 left) and the Vallis slowly growing, I can't keep the ligths off the whole day. I'm thinking of buying some spot lights for the sake of the plants only, but the tank is already half illuminated. Another thing I can easily do is to add some floating plants, I always liked salvinia. And then I could make use of your seeds of S. valerandi... Neale's advice about rearranging the tank is still to be applied, but actually I had rearranged the roots, somehow reducing the open space, just before the troubles started. The main mistery remains, why did they start behaving like this all of a sudden? Although always relatively shy, they never had problems coming out for food, and almost picking it from my hands. Now they just stay away from the surface.

I didn't have time yet to get some critters, ideally flies, but the archers hardly even look around, when thelights are on. Getting some platies as Neale also suggested is the last resort, I don't really want to overstock. I could also consider increasing the water level, there's room for that.

Did your mangroves make it? Of the ones I collected last time, only one is still alive, but it keeps making rootsm and loosing leafs...

Regards!

Maurizio

 

[maurizio]

They're finally out again!

I did modify a bit the position of the roots, and the water inflow, but what appeared to be decisive was... I finally managed to get some crickets (huge, this time!), and this kept them busy for the past two days: since then, they never went back hiding as before!

 

[HX67]

Xlent!

I didn't realise you feed your arhers crickets regularly. In regard to the question about feeding your archers veggies: gutloading the insects (crickets) before you feed them, with veggies does wonders nutritionwise.
I gutload insects I feed to lizzards and mudskippers, with fish food flakes rich in spirulina. I mix in some Nekton vitamin powder too.

 

[maurizio]

Xlent!

I didn't realise you feed your arhers crickets regularly. In regard to the question about feeding your archers veggies: gutloading the insects (crickets) before you feed them, with veggies does wonders nutritionwise.
I gutload insects I feed to lizzards and mudskippers, with fish food flakes rich in spirulina. I mix in some Nekton vitamin powder too.

Not regularly, I'd say occasionally, as a treat (for them, and well, for me!!). I'm not crazy about crickets, I'm not equipped to keep them well, just a plastic box with some holes, and some strange dry food the shopkeeper convinced me to buy. Plus, they don't move much among the leaves, so it's not big fun to see them hunted. Many of them just fall in the water as soon as they enter the tank. Flies, on the other hand...: that's F U N! The archer go nuts! And it's #41#### true that they can catch them in flight! They're somehow easier to keep (well, I never counted how many were dead in the box...), although far more difficult to transfer into the tank!!