Note the author references Heiko
While I kapt a pair of discus froa while wanting the wath spawning anf moreso the early rreaing of the young. I wanted to see the fry eating the slime coat from the parent. Unfortuantel I got many spawns but no viable eggs and ultimately i gave up. However, what I did keep for a number of years were Altum angels.
While the atums are not normally found where the discus live, they do share many thing in common, especially the seasonality. There are a number of distinct Altum populations which are in specific locations. However, the rainy season flooding results in some of them getting a chance to end up in the same place. My first altums came from a gent who bred wild Discus and also had Altums. He had the most elaborate system I have ever seen for supplying his tanks with soft acid water. He needed to supply many tanks with such water.
I find that both discus and angels both have a regal bearing in our tanks. I just sold my last Altums as part of downsizing my tank numbers greatly. I miss them already. But I made sure they went to a good home.
Dr. Tanner did not use the cow argument. He explained why beefhaert should not be fed to any fish, not just discus. And if people read about he dicus diet you will see it does not contain a lot of "meat."
@
anewbie
One should not feed foods to fish they do not eat in the wild unless one can show hat such foods are nutritionally and otherwise suitable for the needs of the fish. My experience has been most fish are basically pigs and will try to eat almost anything we put into their tank. Of course there are exceptions. My altums wound not eat tubifex worms.
But lets back this up for a minute and talk about nature and evolution. The intestinal length of most animals has evolved to be suitable for the foods available in their habitat. The only fish I know that eats mamals are piranah. I am sure there are a few more but I am not an ichtyologist. Fish in the wild have adapted to thrive on the foods available to them. This includes discus.
The composition of mammal meats, organs etc. is not the same as those found in fish. I reference this because there are plenty of predatory fish that eat other fish. There are plenty of fish species that can thrive on a limited diet, that is one that is not as varied as we might think. So, there are a few good clues which indicate what fish naturally eat. Of course this involves knowing things like stomach contents and intestinal length. We know that vegetarian fish tend to have longer intenines than do those which eat a more meaty diet.
We also know that some fish are also grazers in that they tend to eat all day long. Usually this is because what they eat is not as nutritious in smaller amounts. They need to consume more of it than fish which may eat opportunistically. There is a big difference in eating readily available things like aglae, plants detritus than it is being a predator and having to "catch"
: what you eat.
While protein is protein this is not the only consideration in any given food. What else is in the food matters sometimes as much and sometimes even more.
Next, as one who has spent the last 18 years breeding mostly Hypancistrus plecos I know those fish are omivores with an incination to like meaty food. So my fish get a lot of this but they also get the amount of veggie matter they need as well. I am a believer in feeding a varied diet to them. I do feed them alag and veggies and they eat this food. But I am different from most people who breed fish.
The goal for many breeders is to have their fish grow as fast as they can because they become sold sooner. The sooner they become big enough to sell, the more money a breeder can take in. I do not subscribe to this methodology. If we as humans followed this line of thinking we would be feeding our children a lot differently. Cram baies and kids full of high calorie diets to make them grow faster
Most species have a naturally developed rate of growth. Nature determines this and not the desires of the people who breed ornamental fish. This is not the same thing as those who breed food for feeding we humans. There rapid growth in almost as important as healthy to eat fish. This is why in many countries it is not legal to use certain medications for fish that are meant to be consumed by humans.
It is my belief that trying to accelerate the growth rate of my plecos is a poor idea. They have a natural rate of growth and Who am I to say this is not the right rate but that I need to make them grow faster than is natural. What I do is to make sure thet=y are getting the sort of diet and growth rate close to what is natural for that species.
The next part of this is the fact that there are big differences between a species in the wild as opposed to being born and raised in captivity. This also can make a big difference as to how long they live. I am willing to bet that when fish are captive bred and raised and that they are proper cared for, which includes diet, that they can outlive the average lifespan for such species in the wild. This is true even if we keep them in parameters somewhat out of the range of what they encounter in the wild.
This is the case for several reasons. What is below is meant to apply to a species in general and not to any given single fish.
1. If we feed the nutrition they need and do so an a regular basis so they should be eating more regularly. Nor do not have to work as hard for their food or risk having to be where they might be eaten by predators.
2. If we do not keep our fish which might be prey in the wild in tank with no predators, they will average a longer lifespan. This is a no brainer though.
3. Fish in the wild must rely of their natural immune system to fight off diseases and parasites. But in our tanks we can use medications and other things to treat such threats.
4. In the wild the are natural disruptions such as droughts, floods, and human pollutants or dams that may have disastrous consequences. The equivalent of such things do not usually happen in tanks.
5. The is a difference to adding vitamins etc. to fish foods such as flakes, pellets etc. and feeding the wrong sort of food which contain things which may not be healthful for the fish or which do not contain things they need.
6. Several years ago at the NEC weekend ebent they had a breeders round table. Some of the well known breeders serves as the panel on the stage and the attendees were able to submit written questions for them to answer. One one of the panelists was Rosario LaCorte. The question which was a great interest to me was what the panelist used as the best food for conditioning their fish to breed. Many said live black worms, a couple said blood worms and Rosario said tubifex. Nobody mentioned beef heart.
As a result of the above it is normal that most captive fish which are properly cared for will outlive their counterparts in the wild. Properly, to me, means water parameters, diet and tank design (including dimensions and aquascape).
This past year I lost my largest clown loach at about 12 inches TL. I had it since 2003 and it was about 4 years old when it came to me. That is in the range of 25 years old. I also shipped the last two of my original breeding zebras. i acquires them in 2006 as proven breeders along with some of their kids, I shipped them to a fish keeping friend in CA to provide them a retirement home as I was closing down the zebra tanks and I would not sell fish that old. Those fish had to be in their 20s. As a bonus I also sent the last two remaining recent offspring from the breeder tank.
While I may not have produced anywhere the number of fish a farming operation cold or even a home breeder seeking maximum output and sale might, I have a reputation for selling fish which are as described and which are very healthy. But I was not a business I am just a hobbyist who has a weakness for the black& white plecos.
As always, this is just my opinion and others may differ. But, “Everyone is
entitled to his
own opinion, but not to his
own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
