What Is This?

[Tuxyu3]

Hey there,

i am writing to ask for some advice about my Zebra Danio but will start with some general info first.

This tank is 180 litres, set up using cycled filter media over a month ago and the stocking is as following:

3 Pearl Gourami's
7 Harlequin Rasbora's
6 Bronze Corydoras
4 Kuhli loaches
4 Long-finned Zebra Danio's

All of the fish get along fine apart from the occasional chase between the Zebra's and Harlequin's. Temperature is set around 25 degrees Celsius. The latest additions are three kuhli loaches but this problem first came up before them. The only previous issues i have had are that some harlequins i got introduced white spot, this was dealt with before the Zebra's were added using Interpet ich medicine. A few days after i got them i noticed one of my Zebra's flashing against the sand so decided i would keep an eye on her and a few days later i saw her doing it again, please bear in mind the only real problems i have dealt with before are ich and fin rot. I was confused initially as i thought it was ich that had somehow snuck in but a few days later she had still not developed visible spots and was the only fish showing symptoms, at this point i spoke to Crossfire on chat who suggested i check for the symptoms of gills flukes as this was one of them. The next day when i checked, sure enough, i noticed the female had inflamed gills but no rapid breathing apparent. No other fish as of yet are showing symptoms and the fish in question appears to be fine in every other aspect.

What does this sound like to you? I would have like to upload a picture but the Zebra is too fast and the gills too small to get a good photo. Any advise?

 

[WILDER]

Can you post your water stats please in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

Need to ask you some questions.

Any excess slime also on the red inflamed gills?
Do any fish dart around the tank?
Do any fish swim in a jerky movement?
Any excess slime on body, or fins?
Any red pin pricks marks on body, fins. Or red sores on body?
Has the fish lost weight?
Are any fish pecking the gills of the zebra?

 

[Tuxyu3]

I have a confession Wilder, i am currently working with a test strip kit I know these are far from ideal but it is all i have until i get my master test kit. According to the stick levels are:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 25-30ppm
(i am overdue a water change)

There does not appear to be excess slime coat.

The only times fish dart around is when i approach (mostly cory's and gourami's) and when i feed them.

No fish appear to be swimming jerkily.

No excess slime coat on the body or fins as far as i can see.

No pin pricks, though when i glanced into the tank before one zebra appeared to have a slight reddish tinge near her anal fin area, it was directly on her body though, appeared to be under the skin and no open wound, it may have been a trick of the light. Now that i think about it though i have seen occasional red marks on the gourami's, especially the head area and the side of the body near the tail fin, i feel it is incredibly unlikely this a wounds from an attack of some kind though as nobody messes with the gourami's, it also seems to be my largest female gourami who gets the marks. Definitely no open sores.

No the fish have not lost weight, they have actually become plumper (not in the constipated kind of way, in a healthy, even spawning way) and their fins have grown more impressive since i introduced them, by that i mean longer.

No pecking that i have witnessed, they are always the ones who chase the harlequins, nothing serious or even aggressive in nature though. They definitely do not peck the gourami's in case you were wondering.

As i previously mentioned, all the Zebra's health seem to have improved since i introduced them, their fins have grown, they play and they have gained weight. I feed them on a diet of flake food, occasional frozen (due to gourami becoming easily constipated) and live daphnia and bloodworm algae tablets and pellets (zebra's do not touch these), occasional defrosted, de-shelled peas and a couple of times i gave them some floating granules.

 

[WILDER]

OK.
When fish have skin, and gill flukes fish sometimes will peck at the body of fish, also the gills.
The fish with the red patches are they showing signs of flicking and rubbing, darting.
The red patches on the fish does it look like bleeding beneath the skin.

Some information on skin flukes.

Skin Flukes

Symptoms:

Skin flukes will cause your fish to present with a grayish discoloration of the skin and red, inflamed patches. Fin deterioration or fraying may also be present. Infected fish are often seen scraping against objects in the aquarium.


Cause:

Monogenetic Fluke of the genus Gyrodactylus. These flukes are too small to be seen with the naked eye, ranging in size from 0.05 � 3.0 mm in length. They adhere to the fish�s skin with hooks or suckers and feed on the fish�s flesh. These flukes have a very short life cycle, reproducing roughly every 24 hours. Newly born flukes must find a fish host within the first 24 hours in order to survive. In contrast, adult flukes can survive up to ten days without a host.


Treatment:

Skin Fluke infestations are highly infectious. All fish as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated. Effective medications include Clout, Fluke-Tabs, Quick Cure, Formalin, Paragon, Trifon, Parasite Guard, and Potassium Permanganate.


fish-disease.net

 

[Tuxyu3]

It could certainly be bleeding under the skin, as i said the gourami's do dart when i enter the room and sometimes when they chase eachother. No seen flicking or rubbing other than the zebra

Gray discoloration could apply, hard to tell with the gourami's.

Taking my stock into consideration, which treatment would you recommend?

 

[WILDER]

Red patches, and bleeding beneath the skin can be septicemia.

If you do think it looks like bleeding beneath the skin I would take the bacterial route for now. Also red inflamed gills can be bad water quality, gills flukes, bacterial.
Septicmeia hard to cure once is progresses.

Anti internal bacteria med by interpet. (only effective on mild bacteria infections)

If the fish start to look opaque with excess slime, start flicking and rubbing more, or darting,gasping at surface of tank, laboured breathing. Don't hesitate to post back on your thread.

 

[Crossfire]

Told you Wilder would help you better than I did

 

[WILDER]

Septicemia can be caused by parasites.
I would still keep a look out for fluke symptoms.

Thanks Crossfire. Not always easy at times to pin point which ailment the fish has when symptoms can point towards a couple of illnesses.

At this stage I still wouldn't rule out flukes. But the fish are not showing alot of the symptoms for flukes to say for sure.

 

[Tuxyu3]

Something i forgot, the gourami has has these red marks off and on for months now, no change since. Does this change anything?

 

[WILDER]

Take a sample of your tank water to the LFS to be tested. Ask the LFS if they would mind writing the results down for you.

I would start treating with a bacterial medication for now.


Have you changed water conditioner, or added anything to the tank which could be irritating fish skin, gills.

 

[Tuxyu3]

I recently changed my conditioner to API Stress Coat+, my filter is also not so good (i plan o replacing it) and there is some visible debris in the water.

 

[WILDER]

I would invest in a new filter. Also add some new filter floss to your existing filter for now.
Also try netting some of the debris out with a net.


How are the fish tonight?

 

[Tuxyu3]

Found out i have no anti-bacterial stuff and will only be able to get it on monday or tuesday. Will add more filter floss right away. Debris is too fine to net out, very small pieces of stuff that is pretty much unidentifiable, i would guess it is plant matter and other such things.

No change in the fish, i am doing my water change tomorrow though, anything extra i should do, i normally change 30-40%, should i change more? Maybe i should double dose the API Stress Coat+?

 

[WILDER]

Fine filter floss should remove fine particles from the water, if the filter working to it's full capacity.

Maybe suggest a 50% water change. Just use the normal dose of stress coat.
Keep an eye on fish after water change to see how the fish act after adding the stress coat.
The small debris could also be irritating there skin so you do need to buy a new filter as soon as possible.

 

[Tuxyu3]

URGENT UPDATE:

One of the danios has developed some some 'spots' or what could even be considered patches. Brownish in colour, vary in size (the smallest is around 3-4 times the size of a white spot 'grain) and appear to be raised of the skin. Impossible to photograph. Suggestions? Please note I only have stress coat, anti white spot and anti fungus/fin rot in the cupboard and will not be able to visit the shop until Monday/Tuesday next week. No change in behaviour.