what is chloramine ..the real thing in ur tank

[mrV]

Off topic:

Ammonia compounds are not considered safe for use in products for human consumption in the UK, but other countries disagree

I have to say, that one of our important product, candy, is ammonia compound; NH4Cl, ammoniumchloride. We call it "salmiakki" (you probably simply call it ammoniumcloride). I have eaten them, different ammoniumchloride-candies, all my life and still alive B) I just love them!

So if you someday meet some finns in some store in states/uk and they are trying to find "salmiakki" or "salmiak", don't be suprised. Many finns has complained about that they can find "salmiak" from nowhere and they need to ask their relatives to send some candies via post

/off topic.

 

[fish&chips]

lolololol mrv wanna send me sum to try

i would like to back up wot i say about ammonia compounds and try 1

 

[fish&chips]

the newbie stirs up a debate wicked and i only started aweek ago and your learning things you never new to hehe

do ya think ill be a good fish keeper

 

[mrV]

do ya think ill be a good fish keeper

Everyone who has interested in healthy of fishes - not only putting them into tank, will be a good fishkeeper Reading and taking fishkeeping seriously help to understand what fishes need and fishes can be alive several years, not only months.

 

[molliesma]

I always thought we did not add chloramine to the uk water supply - they certainly don't in my area because I asked the water board but having done a little digging around of my own I am beginning to think that actually in lots of areas - particularly in and around London they do - this site I found was particularly interesting;

http/www.croydon.gov.uk/ehdept/research.htm

Paraphrasing from their report;

Chapter 3 Monitoring Drinking Water Quality
Water Quality in England and Wales

3.3 There was a highly significant improvement in compliance for individual pesticides with improvements for taste and nitrite also. However, there was a significant increase in non-compliance for coliforms, colour and trihalomethanes (trihalomethanes are formed as a product of the disinfection process). The improvement in the compliance for individual pesticides is particularly significant. Enforcement has resulted in improvement programmes, which has involved additional water treatment, for and both lower pesticide levels in drinking water. The improvement in nitrite levels is due to improvements in the control over the chloramination process. Chloramine is used as a disinfectant and involves the addition of small amounts of ammonia to chlorinated water just before it leaves the treatment works. Traces of residual ammonia, and the chloramine can be converted naturally to nitrite within the distribution system and this may give rise to contraventions of the nitrite standards.

seems to be old info (study from 97) but on a current site so presumably still current thinking.
So hats off fish and chips he was right.

Tam

 

[Inchworm]

The improvement in nitrite levels is due ........... and this may give rise to contraventions of the nitrite standards.

I've never had much of an aptitude for science, so although I've been following these threads, once the discussion got over my head I stopped posting. But now I have to ask, "Will someone please explain this to me in simple words."

I think what I just read here was a paragraph that started by saying that there was an improvement in the level of nitrite in the water and ended by saying that the result of this might be a violation of the standards for nitrites in the water.

I'm confused.

 

[Lateral Line]

As I read that, adding Chloramine increases nitrite in tap water, ("the chloramine can be converted naturally to nitrite"). Thus, by "improvements in the control over the chloramination process", less Chloramine is being added, hence less nitrite is being produced.

Of course, caveat emptor, and semper fidelis, however, and notwithstanding the non-sequitor derivation of the overstated terminology the undersigned may, or may not be, (ref. documet 5, section 8, paragraph 15, clause 6, subclause 3, word 7, letter 4), completely or partially not totally correct in the perceived perception of the overstated phrase. No liability can be accepted for any misunderstanding of the subject message.

 

[fish&chips]

hello all again i just woke up as i didnt go bed last night AT ALL

i started this thread with NO IDEA this would happen i wanted to simply let sum people know wot the goverment hasnt

i found goverment paper saying that we IN the UK use chloramine
it was 1st used in the usa to keep water clean

by using chloramine in water it can help better then chlorine because it is more hardy and able to stay in the water for longer =cleaner water for longer is good in away

2nd it takes all taste smells out of other chemicals now chloramine is
a compound made by 2 parts 1 part amonia 5 part chlorine

and by using sodium hypochlorite powder

alian anna stated by using chlorine creats gas that gas =sodium hypochlorite powder=chloramine

soooo many of you think its not there and DONT TEST FOR IT I BET
when its the main problem and WORSE THEN chlorine

compound made by 2 parts 1 part amonia 5 part chlorine (if you have little chlorine in the water and a little amonia in your tank water (CYCLING STILL NOT MATURED my point on the death of fishes while cycling tank )

surly they can mix in a persons tank while still maturing create chloramine
and then cause SLOW DEATH wot many blame tank cycling
may be TO MUCH CHLORAMINE

my point is and i cant say much more as im no science teacher preofessor
is that many ppl treat there water for chlorine ...when changing water wat ever
but really the main problem you need to deal with is chloramine as its more toxic then chlorine and

I HAVE HAD NOT 1 PERSON WARN ME ON IT

oh just to add my mum rang her friend who works for the water board and he said yes there was small amount in uk water some places more then other to keep bugs under controll i.e london big and dirty

 

[fish&chips]

this article has been taken from bio start www.bio elite .com due to copy right

What is chloramine?

Chloramine (NH2Cl) is a compound that is formed when chlorine and ammonia combine in water. The ratio normally is 1 part ammonia to 5 parts chlorine.

Chloramine is also formed if the water supply is treated with sodium hypochlorite powder instead of chlorine gas.

It is used in certain areas to kill bacteria in tap water instead of chlorine. This is due to certain factors:

Chlorine forms trihalomethanes (THM)
Chloramine stays in the water for much longer than chlorine
No unpleasant odour or taste
The problem with this is:

Need higher levels of chloramine than chlorine
Chloramine is stable and very difficult to get rid of


How do I know if there is chloramine in my tapwater?

The best way to find out is to phone your water supplier and ask them what is used to treat your water and if chloramines are present.



Is chloramine dangerous to my fish?

Yes, Chloramine is very toxic for fish and other aquatic life forms.

Chloramine acts differently to chlorine in that it causes little damage to the gills but passes through the membrane and into the bloodstream. Here it binds to the iron in the haemoglobin in the red blood cells. This prevents the blood from carrying oxygen and this leads to a disease known as methemoglobinemia, similar to nitrite toxicity. This causes the fish to become very lethargic and eventually they die.



simple

 

[fish&chips]

can some 1 hekp me now im getting worried

pls read this

(a) polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons when the presence of fluoranthene is the sole or major contributor; or

(B) nitrite when the concentration does not exceed 0.5 mg/l and the concentrations of nitrite and nitrate satisfy the formula in the Council Directive 98/83/EC of 3 November 1998 on the quality of water intended for human consumption

the water undertaker shall take the increased number of samples for polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons or nitrite until the end of the calendar year in which the contravention arose. After the end of the calendar year the water undertaker may revert to taking the standard number of samples for polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons or nitrite.

samples for polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons or nitrite why are they testing for
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons that shouldnt be in water should it ???

What are polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)?
(Pronounced pol'ee syk'lik ar'o mat'ik hi'dro kar'benz)

Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) are a group of over 100 different chemicals that are formed during the incomplete burning of coal, oil and gas, garbage, or other organic substances like tobacco or charbroiled meat. PAHs are usually found as a mixture containing two or more of these compounds, such as soot.

 

[Inchworm]

I see that you're trying to warn people to beware of chloramine as well as chlorine in the water they use. That is a very good point, Fish&Chips.

Until you mentioned it I took it for granted that a chlorine removing product would get rid of both. (As I said earlier, I'm not a science minded person.) They sound the same so I guess I thought the same product would work. But my chlorine remover does say that it will remove both so I guess I might have been lucky. (It's Wardley's Chlor Out, but it seems Wardley makes other chlorine removers too.)

So, from now on, I will remember to tell newbies to use a product that removes both just to be on the safe side.

Thank you for the lesson. And thank you for being so persistant that I finally paid attention to it.

 

[fish&chips]

yippppppppeeee i dididid it yep thats wot i was trying to do it took long time to gt there but i think I THINK lol that i got there

yea as a newbie or even like your self i was trying to make people aware of more then just nitrite nitrate and chlorine (now also beaware of chloramine )

thanks inch feel better knowing that my sleepless night paid off

 

[fish&chips]

ok

 

[Lithril]

Kewl I use Waterlife Haloex removes chlorine, chloramine, fluorine, bromine and other toxins...apparently...

 

[mrV]

First, water plants use chloramine, because studies have shown that simply chlorine-gas could form compounds that causes cancer. So they don't want to use chlorine, and they use chloramine.

Chloramine is a difficult compound to aquarium hobbiests; Some chemicals remove chlorine but ammonium-ion stays. Usually biological filtration remove ammonia/ammonium-ion and there is no harm of that, but... If your water is basic, there is lot of ammonia. When pH is under seven, there cannot be ammonia, there is ammonium-ion then.

So filtration should be good, biological filtration rather than mechanical. Many filters are just more or less mechanical.

Chlorine in water kills fishes in consentration 0,2-0,3 mg/l. However, over 0,003 mg/l could causes toxic symtoms.

PAH = polyaromatic hydrogarbons, they are carsinogens that cause e.g. cancer.