What Hapened To My Fish

[AddmySupport]

Quick one- any help appreciated....

we had ( yes had) 6 leopard daniows and 5 guppies...now we have none.

What could have gone wrong:

Within an hour of a small water change (done with nutrafin cycle and Aqua plus to correct quanities) the ish all died.

What could have done it. The tank has been managed well for the last 3 months and the fish have all been fine.

Temperature was perfect.
Amonia level a bit high but OK
Nitrate Ok
Nitrite OK
Ph Ok.

Poison? but how? I used a cloth rinsed under the tap to clean the inside of the glass quickly - but we dont have any toxic chemicals-
What chemical would do that so suddenly anyway?
Something with the nutrafin products
Somthing in the water not picked up by the testing kits or neutralised by the nutrafin products?

Any suggestionss or ideas to stop it happening again.

Thanks in advance

 

[fishman3]

Quick one- any help appreciated....

we had ( yes had) 6 leopard daniows and 5 guppies...now we have none.

What could have gone wrong:

Within an hour of a small water change (done with nutrafin cycle and Aqua plus to correct quanities) the ish all died.

What could have done it. The tank has been managed well for the last 3 months and the fish have all been fine.

Temperature was perfect.
Amonia level a bit high but OK
Nitrate Ok
Nitrite OK
Ph Ok.

Poison? but how? I used a cloth rinsed under the tap to clean the inside of the glass quickly - but we dont have any toxic chemicals-
What chemical would do that so suddenly anyway?
Something with the nutrafin products
Somthing in the water not picked up by the testing kits or neutralised by the nutrafin products?

Any suggestionss or ideas to stop it happening again.

Thanks in advance

what was the ammonia level? any level of detectable ammonia is an indication of a water problem?

daft question but was the cloth you used to clean the tank new or an old cloth that had been used with kitchen cleaners in the past etc?

were the fish showing any signs of distress before the water change? ???

 

[Christi_22]

Hi

Please can you let us know the exact readings of your tests for Ammonia and Nitites etc? It does sound like you may have introduced some unwelcome (fatal) chemicals into the tank from the use of the cloth, unless is was completely new and not used for other purposes prior to cleaning the tank???

 

[pippoodle]

Do need the exact reading for ammonia , nitrites , nitrates and ph
before we can try and explain what has happened
also need to know if the cloth was brand new and rinsed before being used - some cloths have some of the treatment used during manufactoring still on them when you buy them .

Any sign of ammonia will damage the fish as it's a poison as is nitrites

Did the fish have any black marks on them - what were they like before they died and did they have any noticable markings on them after death

Thanks Sarah x

 

[AddmySupport]

[/quote]

what was the ammonia level? any level of detectable ammonia is an indication of a water problem?

daft question but was the cloth you used to clean the tank new or an old cloth that had been used with kitchen cleaners in the past etc?

were the fish showing any signs of distress before the water change? ???
[/quote]

The fish were completely fine, no sign of distress or disease an behaving totally normally.

The ammonia level was was present it was: 0.05mg/l or less even

The cloth is the only explanation i can see. It had been used for the tank before but was in the bathroom.

We dont have toxic chemicals but we do have some Ecover products- But they didnt get on the cloth.

Other than that the only possible contaminents on the cloth are:
Shampoo
Conditioner

It happended so quickly that i can only imagine it was a poison of some type.
Is there anything in the ordinary water or the water from a hot water tank that could be so dangerous.

(i used Nutrafin Aquaplus to neutralise the tap water, but maybe it missed something?)

Any further ideas are appreciated.

 

[fishman3]

Addmysupport i'm no expert and i'm sure one will come along soon and try to provide some closure for you on this.

In general terms it is difficult to ascertain what could have been the problem. If someone had used the cloth with a type of cleaning product this could have been the way in which poison was introduced and would be my first guess however i'm not sure what kind of cleaning product would have such an instantaneous effect.

You also mentioned a hot water tank, this could also be a possible source as some systems will put heavy metals and pollutants into the water however i'm unsure of your system or whether or not the nutrafin product would indeed remove these contaminants.

Have you used the hotwater system to replenish water in your tank before?



Any ideas guys?

 

[AddmySupport]

Addmysupport i'm no expert and i'm sure one will come along soon and try to provide some closure for you on this.

In general terms it is difficult to ascertain what could have been the problem. If someone had used the cloth with a type of cleaning product this could have been the way in which poison was introduced and would be my first guess however i'm not sure what kind of cleaning product would have such an instantaneous effect.

You also mentioned a hot water tank, this could also be a possible source as some systems will put heavy metals and pollutants into the water however i'm unsure of your system or whether or not the nutrafin product would indeed remove these contaminants.

Have you used the hotwater system to replenish water in your tank before?



Any ideas guys?

Thanks fishman3

I to am wondering about the impact of somethng from the hotwater system. We have a copper tank which has some corrosion.
(not excessive- it is completely clear - not brown- but i think copper traces can be a problem for fish???)

I have used hot water in previous changes but always at a different time of day when the hot water is in a different phase so it is possible the quality of the hot water was changed

( but again the amount of hot used was minimal (a 2 litres max and in a 70l tank this shouldnt have had such a big impact - should it?)

In future what is the best method for doing a water change- ( Rain water and boiled water combination perhaps)

The tank temperature is 26/27 degrees celcius- so i have to warm it somehow.

As you can imagine i am now very nervous about all of this!

 

[Spishkey]

if you had shampoo or conditioner on the cloth, im guessing you'd see a fine film or small bubbly scum on the water surface in your tank?


do you have any roadworks going on near you at the moment?

 

[pippoodle]

Thanks fishman3

I to am wondering about the impact of somethng from the hotwater system. We have a copper tank which has some corrosion.
(not excessive- it is completely clear - not brown- but i think copper traces can be a problem for fish???)

I have used hot water in previous changes but always at a different time of day when the hot water is in a different phase so it is possible the quality of the hot water was changed

( but again the amount of hot used was minimal (a 2 litres max and in a 70l tank this shouldnt have had such a big impact - should it?)

In future what is the best method for doing a water change- ( Rain water and boiled water combination perhaps)

The tank temperature is 26/27 degrees celcius- so i have to warm it somehow.

As you can imagine i am now very nervous about all of this!

You only have to get the temp near to the tank temp - a couple of degrees isnt going to hurt
always use a dechlorinator and dont use water from the hot tap (copper piping and water tank sometimes cause problems) - i use boiled tap water - added to a bucket before adding to the tank - get the bucket to the right temp
You can either add the dechlorinator to the bucket before adding to the tank or put it in the tank - i always add mine to the bucket
Do not add boiled water straight to the tank

I think the cloth could have been the cause of the problem
get an algae magnet and keep it in the fish tank - at the back - best not to clean the inside of a tank with a cloth as you never know what has got onto the cloth

 

[Athena]

Anyone in your family spray deoderant, air freshener or perfume whilst in the bathroom? The mist from these sprays can easily settle on things nearby... like a cloth...

Athena

 

[AddmySupport]

What do you think to these possibilities:

How about:

1. electricution- It seems a long shot but could a faulty filter or heater elecrocute the fish?
(they all died so quickly- its not like they were ill for a while or one or two were sick. It was almost instantly.)

2. poison- but what would have been strong enough to kill all the fish in one go in a 70+litre tank considering it would only have been a trace dose?

3. Something in the water (same query as poison)

By the way we have a golden apple snail that seemed to survive past the initial fish death- although we have taken him out the tank now and seen little movement since.

What should we do with him? Will he survive the set up of a new tank and the cycling process or is there a better solution. (he survived out the tank for 4 days when we first got him ( he climbed out of a cable slot in the lid when we were away and survived on the floor for those 4 days)

As you can imagine my confidence has gone to pot!

thanks

 

[Chris w]

first thing i would do is do a 50 per cent water change this would decrease the amount of any chemicals by a factor of at least 50% or more.
i would then add some activated charcoal to you filters for approx 2 weeks thus hopefully removing any further chemical residue from the tank.

i would dare say placing the snail back in would not be a problem i would also continue doing water changes every day for approximately 5 days at the rate of 25% this would eventually eliminate all the trace chemical .

i use a 18 liter water jack the type used in offices for water machines

i add 16 liters of cold tap water to this and approx 1.8 liters of boiling hot water from the kettle.

this then brings the temperature down to approx 26 to 27 degrees i then add tap conditioner and a dose of stress coat and add this to the tank have been doing water changes this way for approx 15 years and never had a problem.

 

[AddmySupport]

first thing i would do is do a 50 per cent water change this would decrease the amount of any chemicals by a factor of at least 50% or more.
i would then add some activated charcoal to you filters for approx 2 weeks thus hopefully removing any further chemical residue from the tank.

i would dare say placing the snail back in would not be a problem i would also continue doing water changes every day for approximately 5 days at the rate of 25% this would eventually eliminate all the trace chemical .

i use a 18 liter water jack the type used in offices for water machines

i add 16 liters of cold tap water to this and approx 1.8 liters of boiling hot water from the kettle.

this then brings the temperature down to approx 26 to 27 degrees i then add tap conditioner and a dose of stress coat and add this to the tank have been doing water changes this way for approx 15 years and never had a problem.

Thankyou for your reply. Thats just the type of advice i needed.

I have to admit i dont know what activated charcoal is but i imagine this is something to ask out local store about.

The advice on the water is great as well. Can i just check something else with you for curiositys sake:

Is it best to use tap water or rain water?

The tap water can be neutralised for chemicals and the boiling watr sounds safer than the hot tap!

But a few friends have said to use rain water - but i was converned that if that came from our water butts these may have developed high levels of ammonia for example which may be more dangerous to the tank.

Cold water form the tap or rain water?

Thanks

 

[Chris w]

first thing i would do is do a 50 per cent water change this would decrease the amount of any chemicals by a factor of at least 50% or more.
i would then add some activated charcoal to you filters for approx 2 weeks thus hopefully removing any further chemical residue from the tank.

i would dare say placing the snail back in would not be a problem i would also continue doing water changes every day for approximately 5 days at the rate of 25% this would eventually eliminate all the trace chemical .

i use a 18 liter water jack the type used in offices for water machines

i add 16 liters of cold tap water to this and approx 1.8 liters of boiling hot water from the kettle.

this then brings the temperature down to approx 26 to 27 degrees i then add tap conditioner and a dose of stress coat and add this to the tank have been doing water changes this way for approx 15 years and never had a problem.

Thankyou for your reply. Thats just the type of advice i needed.

I have to admit i dont know what activated charcoal is but i imagine this is something to ask out local store about.

The advice on the water is great as well. Can i just check something else with you for curiositys sake:

Is it best to use tap water or rain water?

The tap water can be neutralised for chemicals and the boiling watr sounds safer than the hot tap!

But a few friends have said to use rain water - but i was converned that if that came from our water butts these may have developed high levels of ammonia for example which may be more dangerous to the tank.

Cold water form the tap or rain water?

Thanks

the rain water issue is a contentuious one as this would depend on where in the world you live.

if you live quite close to the coast then the majority of you rain water will be quite neutral but may contain a high level of sodium as the rain is drawn up via evaporation off the sea.

another thing you have to look for is the potential to have contaminated water from industrial poloution from fumes released in to the atmosphere.

i for one would not go down this route. what you can do is draw of large voloumes of water and allow this to stand for upto 72 hours, this will allow any chlorine gasses to escape from the water.

this is some thing i do on a six weekly basis as i do a 50% change and then use the boiled water to bring up to tempreture.....,

everyone has ther own ways this is what i have found works best for me over the past 25+years of keeping fish.

 

[AddmySupport]

the rain water issue is a contentuious one as this would depend on where in the world you live.

if you live quite close to the coast then the majority of you rain water will be quite neutral but may contain a high level of sodium as the rain is drawn up via evaporation off the sea.

another thing you have to look for is the potential to have contaminated water from industrial poloution from fumes released in to the atmosphere.

i for one would not go down this route. what you can do is draw of large voloumes of water and allow this to stand for upto 72 hours, this will allow any chlorine gasses to escape from the water.

this is some thing i do on a six weekly basis as i do a 50% change and then use the boiled water to bring up to tempreture.....,

everyone has ther own ways this is what i have found works best for me over the past 25+years of keeping fish.

Letting it stand for 72 hours i imagine means i dont need to use an additive to neutralise the chlorine/ chloramine in the tap water.

Can you confirm as i am not a fan of our reliance on these additives- We use Nutrafin AquaPlus and Nutrafin Cycle but it would be great to do it without.

Thanks