Water parameters really high

[birdman99]

I have a 30 L superfish qubic
The tank has been running for over 6 weeks and was cycled fine up until last week when i decided to add some JBL manado substrate, some more plants.
I have been dosing with prime to try and keep the fish safe but am noticing low Amonia , high Nirtite 5ppm and Nitrate 80 plus.
I have used Fluval bio enhancer and Tropica root tabs and Tropica specialised.

I just cannot work out what is causing such high numbers.
I am doing 50% water changes once per day but at this rate might need to do x2 50% or 75% a day.
any help would be much appreciated.

 

[birdman99]

forgot to add when i added the JBL Manado i put it straight on top of the gravel , would this have caused a bacteria Bloom?

 

[Planted-Pete™]

I don't recommend, because I don't want to be responsible for your fish, I used another brand of bacteria, but I used two ENTIRE 12 oz bottles on two separate occasions with 4" of substrate and I had a COMPLETE nitrogen cycle in 4 weeks 0 ammonia 0 nitrate 0 nitrite, I clean the glass once every 6 weeks, and it's been that way ever since. I'm also extremely overstocked. Fluval 307 with biohome media.
The ii mportance of thick substrate isn't expressed enough. It supports both aerobic and anaerobic colonies large enough to keep our tanks PERFECT. add plants and an adequate filter with proper media to harbor and support the anaerobics and you've got a recipe for success.

I recommend the "pimp my filter" videos by pondguru on youtube to learn more about the COMPLETE nitrogen cycle

 

[Colin_T]

The new substrate could be producing ammonia. Take some of the new substrate and put it in a clean bucket. Add some tap water (check it for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate before adding it to the bucket with the substrate). Then monitor the ammonia in the bucket. If you get an ammonia reading in the bucket with the new substrate, that is where the reading is coming from.

The high nitrate is from the nitrite. Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading. Disregard the nitrate until the nitrite is back to 0ppm.

Stop adding fertilisers until you work out where the problem is coming from.

Have you modified or cleaned/ changed the filter recently?

 

[Planted-Pete™]

True, I'm not familiar with your substrate, but "active" substrates tend to raise the ammonia levels temporarily

 

[FishGuest5123]

I don't recommend, because I don't want to be responsible for your fish, I used another brand of bacteria, but I used two ENTIRE 12 oz bottles on two separate occasions with 4" of substrate and I had a COMPLETE nitrogen cycle in 4 weeks 0 ammonia 0 nitrate 0 nitrite, I clean the glass once every 6 weeks, and it's been that way ever since. I'm also extremely overstocked. Fluval 307 with biohome media.
The ii mportance of thick substrate isn't expressed enough. It supports both aerobic and anaerobic colonies large enough to keep our tanks PERFECT. add plants and an adequate filter with proper media to harbor and support the anaerobics and you've got a recipe for success.

I recommend the "pimp my filter" videos by pondguru on youtube to learn more about the COMPLETE nitrogen cycle

Is your tank heavily planted since you have 0 nitrates?

 

[Planted-Pete™]

Yes, but it's not necessary. That's the info I'm trying to spread, it certainly wasn't heavily planted at 4 weeks. Most aquarists don't understand the COMPLETE nitrogen cycle. They use the words but it's an improper usage, a complete nitrogen cycle involves the anaerobic bacteria that break nitrates into nitrogen gas. With a thick substrate you have colonies of aerobic (oxygen loving) bacteria that only penetrate maybe 1/2-1" they starve the lower levels of oxygen and make it perfect for the anaerobic bacteria, thus COMPLETING the nitrogen cycle. Biohome ultimate media can do this but it's one of less than a handful that can. You can do either, or both. I'm my case I did both, but my water was perfect a month before I bought the canister filter and media.you also need time, without the heavy overusage of bacteria, my colonies would have taken approx 6 months to reproduce to an effective number. The anaerobic bacteria are VERY slow growing

 

[Planted-Pete™]

Stolen from "pimp my filter" on youtube:

WHAT IS A FULL CYCLE? *If someone tells you the aquarium nitrogen cycle ends with the production of nitrate that is incorrect - please read on* A full cycle is completed by bacteria - the aerobic part of biological filtration which processes ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate followed by an anaerobic part which processes nitrate into soluble nitrogen which bubbles off to the atmosphere. Therefore it requires a suitable amount of excellent quality filter media to be able to provide the environment for both aerobic AND anaerobic bacteria - that is what Biohome ultimate does perfectly but even with such good media there are limitations and we recommend the following amounts for different stocking scenarios: (1 US gallon = 3.8 litres) (1kg = 2.2 lbs) Average community tropical aquarium = 1kg per 100 litres Average coldwater aquarium = 1kg - 1.5kg per 100 litres Predator aquarium = 1.5kg - 2kg per 100 litres Large cichlid aquarium = 1.5kg - 2kg per 100 litres Malawi / Tanganyikan aquarium = 1.5kg - 2kg per 100 litres Marine aquarium = 1.5kg - 2kg per 100 litres Average mixed fish pond = 1kg per 200 litres Average koi pond = 1kg per 150 litres Avoid using any products which claim to remove, detoxify or bind ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as they will have a noticeable starving effect on the bacteria which will manifest as an inability to achieve a full cycle due to a low population of bacteria on a starvation diet. Let Nature do the work and as long as you have a suitable sized, well set up filter there is no reason why a full cycle won't be achieved. You may be disagreeing with the above figures but remember that the recommendations are for a FULL CYCLE not half a job - achieving 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite is quite easy since aerobic bacteria grows freely on any surface but the anaerobic bacteria responsible for COMPLETING the cycle needs more a specialized habitat. Size a filter properly, set it up sensibly and you will have perfect water - it's that simple....and your filter won't be the dreaded 'Nitrate factory'.

 

[Planted-Pete™]

I am not affiliated in any way with pondguru or his pimp my filter series, but it's the best info I have to give and I THANK HIM!!!!

 

[FishGuest5123]

@Planted-Pete you are highjacking the OP’s post. Please start your own post to discuss this topic. If you want to join our forum and share new ideas, they are welcome as long as there are scientific resources that you can provide us to back your opinions. The fish world is gaining new and insightful information daily. I do want other new members to know there are other methods to cycling tanks which we are happy to share with you. In our index you can locate information on The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle and other methods in which to achieve a cycled tank including fishless cycling, fish in cycling, and silent cycle. Everyone is encouraged to choose the method you feel most comfortable in using. We are here to help with any questions.

 

[Essjay]

@birdman99

If you ammonia and /or nitrite are above zero, you need to do water changes to get them down to zero. Prime should not be used as an additive but to treat the new water at every water change. The detoxification lasts for around 24 hours. If water changes are done every day, Prime will keep the fish safe until the next day's water change.

As Colin_T says, it could be leaching from the substrate. Some plant substrates leach for up to 6 months.



@Planted-Pete™

The fishless cycling method on here does state that the nitrogen cycle involves the conversion of nitrate to nitrogen gas but also contains this statement

While nature has ways to turn the nitrate into harmless nitrogen gas, they are not practical in most fresh water tanks. So the fish keeper must take steps to remove nitrate.

It is not common for 'nitrate eating' bacteria to grow in aquariums. Standard practice is to remove nitrate with water changes. The media you suggest is not practical for a lot of fishkeepers. For example, I have a 180 litre tank, and there is no way I could fit 1.8 kg in my internal filter.

I do need to point out that many fishkeepers regard Biohome's nitrate removing claims as hype; that it is just another media for growing the micro-organisms to remove ammonia and nitrite. They consider that growing nitrate removing micro-organisms in a filter as unlikely because there is too much oxygen for them to grow. However, these micro-organisms do grow in the low oxygen environment of the substrate.

 

[Planted-Pete™]

@birdman99

If you ammonia and /or nitrite are above zero, you need to do water changes to get them down to zero. Prime should not be used as an additive but to treat the new water at every water change. The detoxification lasts for around 24 hours. If water changes are done every day, Prime will keep the fish safe until the next day's water change.

As Colin_T says, it could be leaching from the substrate. Some plant substrates leach for up to 6 months.



@Planted-Pete™

The fishless cycling method on here does state that the nitrogen cycle involves the conversion of nitrate to nitrogen gas but also contains this statement

It is not common for 'nitrate eating' bacteria to grow in aquariums. Standard practice is to remove nitrate with water changes. The media you suggest is not practical for a lot of fishkeepers. For example, I have a 180 litre tank, and there is no way I could fit 1.8 kg in my internal filter.

I do need to point out that many fishkeepers regard Biohome's nitrate removing claims as hype; that it is just another media for growing the micro-organisms to remove ammonia and nitrite. They consider that growing nitrate removing micro-organisms in a filter as unlikely because there is too much oxygen for them to grow. However, these micro-organisms do grow in the low oxygen environment of the substrate.

Only reason it's not practical is #1 substrate is expensive #2 until recently ALL media was designed to harbor aerobic bacteria ONLY. And everyone saying it's hype hasn't used it, or didn't use ENOUGH...

 

[Slaphppy7]

Only reason it's not practical is #1 substrate is expensive #2 until recently ALL media was designed to harbor aerobic bacteria ONLY. And everyone saying it's hype hasn't used it, or didn't use ENOUGH...

I paid around $6 US for 50 pounds of pool filter sand for my substrate; that's not expensive, by any measure.

 

[Planted-Pete™]

Seems like everyone just wants to argue. Have a nice day guys. I'm out, you got nothing to lose by trying and everything to gain. I hoped this would be a cool place to share ideas and spread knowledge Guess I was wrong.
Climate deniers
Mask and covid deniers
And now nitrogen deniers.
Thanks but no thanks I'm with the scientists...

 

[Slaphppy7]

Stating facts is not arguing.