Water Cycled?
- Thread starter Squid31
- Start date
Good luck!
I'd suggest adding a bit of Prime to deal with the ammonia and nitrite reading that you are dealing with right now, and not change the water... The Prime will detoxify the ammonia and nitrite for 24-48 hours, while it is still present. If you see the levels climbing, you can add more then.
I'd give the Safe Start a full week to settle before doing a water change.
I'd give the Safe Start a full week to settle before doing a water change.
Well I did do a 20% water change as suggested before you. So ill get prime as soon as possible maybe add a bit for safe start, and add that and I will continue to test, and see what happens.eaglesaquarium said:
Thank You!
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Ugh did a long post and somehow closed the window- version 2...
No water change would have been my answer. That fish was likely bum from the store. Why would it die if it was in the water rather than one of the other fish in that water much longer? Sorry about the loss, but by way of every cloud and a silver lining- your bio-load will be a bit less. And since you added bacteria for a 60 gal and lost 20% from the wc (I hope), it means you still have enough for 48 gals. I love it when the emergency chute opens.
The bacteria needs a day or two to settle into the filter media and attach to the substrate and decor. That is why the change before adding was advised.
At your pH .25 ppm or even .5 ppm ammonia is not a threat to the fish short term. So do nothing for now. DO NOT ADD MORE PRIME. It will work against the cycle/bacteria. Dosing what is needed to dechlor is all you should do. You added the bacteria, let them do their thing. Overdosing prime is an emergency bailout tactic not a real solution. It also can make test results wonky. this is pretty much true for any of the good dechlors.
Unless they have been mishandled, the bacteria should go to work pretty fast. You will be able to see this in two ways. The ammonia levels may not be 0 for a bit, but they should not rise much at all. As long as you do not exceed .5 and also do not see the fish showing distress, you have some wiggle room to be patient on this front. Nitrite also should not rise much as there should be bacteria just waiting for a good meal now. However, you need to monitor it carefully. Just like a low level of ammonia, a bit of nitrite for a little time is OK, but here you need to be more careful due to the tank history and how nitrite damages fish. Somewhere between .5 and 1.0 on the nitrite kit would get me nervous enough to add some salt to the water. Higher would tilt me towards a wc. But my hope here is neither action will be needed.
The other thing that is important if you are having a low level ammonia reading for a bit. Try not to startle the fish and feed them a bit every day. We don't want uneaten food in the tank, but fed fish resist ammonia better than starved ones do. Stressed fish and/or more active fish also create more internal ammonia which becomes more problemsome the higher external ammonia levels are. If the tank is in a room where the lights are on and off and people are active, you can even cover it. I am trying to think of every possible way to turn the odds in your favor by trying every trick in the book. In another 36 hours it should be OK to do a water change if needed as the bacteria will be settled by then.
Tomorrow, check your levels and post them here. I will keep an eye on the thread. I guess we are too far apart for you to get the media I have full of bacteria?
Right now everything is in a good place. We need to see the effects of the steps you just took play out. There is never a guarantee. Basically, you are now on the test and react road. Each next step will be dictated by what has come before and where you are at the time.
No water change would have been my answer. That fish was likely bum from the store. Why would it die if it was in the water rather than one of the other fish in that water much longer? Sorry about the loss, but by way of every cloud and a silver lining- your bio-load will be a bit less. And since you added bacteria for a 60 gal and lost 20% from the wc (I hope), it means you still have enough for 48 gals. I love it when the emergency chute opens.
The bacteria needs a day or two to settle into the filter media and attach to the substrate and decor. That is why the change before adding was advised.
At your pH .25 ppm or even .5 ppm ammonia is not a threat to the fish short term. So do nothing for now. DO NOT ADD MORE PRIME. It will work against the cycle/bacteria. Dosing what is needed to dechlor is all you should do. You added the bacteria, let them do their thing. Overdosing prime is an emergency bailout tactic not a real solution. It also can make test results wonky. this is pretty much true for any of the good dechlors.
Unless they have been mishandled, the bacteria should go to work pretty fast. You will be able to see this in two ways. The ammonia levels may not be 0 for a bit, but they should not rise much at all. As long as you do not exceed .5 and also do not see the fish showing distress, you have some wiggle room to be patient on this front. Nitrite also should not rise much as there should be bacteria just waiting for a good meal now. However, you need to monitor it carefully. Just like a low level of ammonia, a bit of nitrite for a little time is OK, but here you need to be more careful due to the tank history and how nitrite damages fish. Somewhere between .5 and 1.0 on the nitrite kit would get me nervous enough to add some salt to the water. Higher would tilt me towards a wc. But my hope here is neither action will be needed.
The other thing that is important if you are having a low level ammonia reading for a bit. Try not to startle the fish and feed them a bit every day. We don't want uneaten food in the tank, but fed fish resist ammonia better than starved ones do. Stressed fish and/or more active fish also create more internal ammonia which becomes more problemsome the higher external ammonia levels are. If the tank is in a room where the lights are on and off and people are active, you can even cover it. I am trying to think of every possible way to turn the odds in your favor by trying every trick in the book. In another 36 hours it should be OK to do a water change if needed as the bacteria will be settled by then.
Tomorrow, check your levels and post them here. I will keep an eye on the thread. I guess we are too far apart for you to get the media I have full of bacteria?
Right now everything is in a good place. We need to see the effects of the steps you just took play out. There is never a guarantee. Basically, you are now on the test and react road. Each next step will be dictated by what has come before and where you are at the time.
Thanks for the great post and clarification, TTA.TwoTankAmin said:
I guess I'm just over cautious, lol.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
There is nothing wrong with being safe. Even with things lined up in the right direction, it is not a guarantee. After all, we are dealing with microscopic organisms and other things we really cannot see or measure. We are working with test kits that have their problems at times as well. Basically, what it often boils down to is trying to determine why things are not going as they should and then what will likely be the best way to get them back on track. Sometimes we have to make our best guess.
For squid here the goal is to try and fix things fairly fast before they can get out of hand and cause further issues. There are options, but not all will be feasible. I can set up a new tank and have it fully cycled instantly because I have many cycled tanks and also empty ones and plenty of spare hardware. Another fish keeper will not have those options. This means even in identical situations, we will likely take different actions to handle it. The nice part is we have such options.
If the bacteria added do their job, then things should improve pretty fast. On the other hand, if they do not there is always a fallback. At worst, there is always the massive repeated water change route. It can buy time to find cycled media. But in situations like this the most important thing is not to panic. Keeping a level head and not to jumping at any possible solution offered because one feels desperate to help the fish is important. Once something is put into the water, it is not so simple to get it out.
What I would like to be seeing in squid's next post is that his ammonia levels are not climbing sharply nor is the nitrite. If they go from .25 ppm to .50, I would be willing to watch a day or two as long as the fish show no sign of distress and the pH stays near 7. But if they moved much higher I would start to get nervous because of the direction and because the fish have already been somewhat "weakened". There is less leeway. But the next move should become clearer once the effect of what was done so far can be determined. If the ammonia is low but the nitrite a bit touchy- we can use a bit of salt as a bridge before we jump on big water changes. Odd as it sounds, resisting water changes, if possible, is the ideal. It will get one to cycled the fastest. But that doesn't mean not doing a big water change if the situation actually calls for it.
Trust me when I say pouring some Safe Start in a tank is a lot easier than doing a dozen 50-75% water changes
Especially, when it works well. Right now the main goal is not to have any more fish die, not to have them suffer any permanent damage and then to get the tank cycled as part of that. Lets see what squid reports today and then come up with the next step based on that
For squid here the goal is to try and fix things fairly fast before they can get out of hand and cause further issues. There are options, but not all will be feasible. I can set up a new tank and have it fully cycled instantly because I have many cycled tanks and also empty ones and plenty of spare hardware. Another fish keeper will not have those options. This means even in identical situations, we will likely take different actions to handle it. The nice part is we have such options.
If the bacteria added do their job, then things should improve pretty fast. On the other hand, if they do not there is always a fallback. At worst, there is always the massive repeated water change route. It can buy time to find cycled media. But in situations like this the most important thing is not to panic. Keeping a level head and not to jumping at any possible solution offered because one feels desperate to help the fish is important. Once something is put into the water, it is not so simple to get it out.
What I would like to be seeing in squid's next post is that his ammonia levels are not climbing sharply nor is the nitrite. If they go from .25 ppm to .50, I would be willing to watch a day or two as long as the fish show no sign of distress and the pH stays near 7. But if they moved much higher I would start to get nervous because of the direction and because the fish have already been somewhat "weakened". There is less leeway. But the next move should become clearer once the effect of what was done so far can be determined. If the ammonia is low but the nitrite a bit touchy- we can use a bit of salt as a bridge before we jump on big water changes. Odd as it sounds, resisting water changes, if possible, is the ideal. It will get one to cycled the fastest. But that doesn't mean not doing a big water change if the situation actually calls for it.
Trust me when I say pouring some Safe Start in a tank is a lot easier than doing a dozen 50-75% water changes
Especially, when it works well. Right now the main goal is not to have any more fish die, not to have them suffer any permanent damage and then to get the tank cycled as part of that. Lets see what squid reports today and then come up with the next step based on that
I'd sit tight for another day.
Thanks! I was planning on doing that being I test my water with a kit I don't know how accurate it is. With my fish seeming pretty healthy ill test again tomorrow and see what happens. Ill post the results on this post again also.eaglesaquarium said:
Today the readings are about the same. pH 7, Ammonia .5ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 2ppm. The tank is very clear now so im assuming the safe start settled. The fish still look healthy so everything seems good as of now.
If the ammonia isn't getting higher that's a good sign.
Just tested, the fish are doing good and i've seen my shark actually eat other than scavenge for the first time today. The ammonia was in between .25-.50ppms, the nitrites have climb to .25 from 0 though, and the nitrates seem to be up a bit at 2.5ppms. So what does it mean now that the nitrites have appeared?
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