Water Change And Water Levels Still High?

[Ft fisher]

Hello all!
This morning i did a water test and the test strip indicated that i needed a water change, so i did one! I just re-tested the water to double check everything is fine, and it's saying the water's sill high in Nitrite, Nitrate, and Carbonate Hardness (Kh). It's a planted 64 litre tank, I've had it just over 4 weeks. I have 4 cherry barbs, 4 mollies and 5 guppies, 4 shrimp and 2 freshwater clams. The guppies, shrimp and the clams was added yesterday. Can anybody maybe tell me why this is? Any advice would be a great help. Thanks!

 

[arobinson1984]

Hi,

I'm guessing that if your tank is only 4 weeks old then its unlikely to be fully cycled yet, unless you started with seeded media.

Have a good read of the links in my signature regarding cycling and especially the fish-in cycle one as this is the situation that you find yourself in.

What size water change did you do? In a fish-in cycle you usually find you will need large 60%+ changes to keep ammonia/nitrites down to a suitable level.

First thing, dump the test strips they are highly innaccurate, you need a good LIQUID based test kit such as the API freshwater master kit or saliferts tests. This way you will have more reliable readings and will give you a beter indication to the situation you are in.


Andy

 

[Harlequins]

I agree with Andy on info above...

And has i posted on your other thread,nitrite was probably the cause of your mollie dying.

Have a read of fish in cycle in the beginners section,there's a link under my signature pic.

Good luck

 

[waterdrop]

Sounds like good advice and questions to me too!

Welcome to TFF!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[David12]

ok dont get caught on this cycle thing ok a cycle in a freshwater is not as bad as a saltwater cycle so there is no real way of getting a cycle going in freshwater because in saltwater you need liverock so in freshwater the only way to get a cycle going is by adding fish so your doing fine dont worry if you just did a water change dont worry about the test say there is not alot more you can really do as for a 65 littre tank that is an ok size fish tank for the fish you have just make sure you dont get any big fish. i kept a 300 littre fish tank i dont cycle in freshwater becuase i dont feel as you need to however i do beliven in waiting about 3 days before adding anyfish in what so ever as freshwater fish are really hardy things it take a real lot to make them stress out i hope this helps i know other member might not agree with what im saying but i have kept freshwater fish over 12 years with only loseing one fish in that whole time cheers David

 

[roadmaster]

ok dont get caught on this cycle thing ok a cycle in a freshwater is not as bad as a saltwater cycle so there is no real way of getting a cycle going in freshwater because in saltwater you need liverock so in freshwater the only way to get a cycle going is by adding fish so your doing fine dont worry if you just did a water change dont worry about the test say there is not alot more you can really do as for a 65 littre tank that is an ok size fish tank for the fish you have just make sure you dont get any big fish. i kept a 300 littre fish tank i dont cycle in freshwater becuase i dont feel as you need to however i do beliven in waiting about 3 days before adding anyfish in what so ever as freshwater fish are really hardy things it take a real lot to make them stress out i hope this helps i know other member might not agree with what im saying but i have kept freshwater fish over 12 years with only loseing one fish in that whole time cheers David

There is so much wrong with this post, that I feel it incumbent to state as much.
First, cycling is cycling, matters little whether it's salt or fresh water you still need to allow bacteria to develop to process waste created by the fishes lest levels of toxins such as ammonia and nitrites cause damage to the fishes which can easily cause their death.
To say that there is no way to cycle a tank without adding fish is false.
I can think of four different ways of allowing the tank to mature or (cycle) without adding fish. Sprinkling a pinch of fish food in the tank each day,using raw ammonia easily found at local hardware stores,Placing a prawn (shrimp) in the tank and allowing it to decay, and borrowing some mature filter media and or gravel from a disease free existing aquarium from a friend perhaps will all allow the tank to mature or (cycle) without using live fish.
In very large aquariums ,one might be able to cycle with a few small fish, but for most folks adding too many fish too soon nearly always results in sick or dying fish until the tanks biological filter develops in relation to the numbers of fish present. is why it is important to add fish slowly, one or two at a time to allow the beneficial bacteria to catch up with the load(fish waste).
Water changes perhaps daily with dechlorinator such as PRIME that detoxifys chlorine,chloramines, and ammonia is safest way to ensure the health of your fish.

 

[Assaye]

Hello all!
This morning i did a water test and the test strip indicated that i needed a water change, so i did one! I just re-tested the water to double check everything is fine, and it's saying the water's sill high in Nitrite, Nitrate, and Carbonate Hardness (Kh). It's a planted 64 litre tank, I've had it just over 4 weeks. I have 4 cherry barbs, 4 mollies and 5 guppies, 4 shrimp and 2 freshwater clams. The guppies, shrimp and the clams was added yesterday. Can anybody maybe tell me why this is? Any advice would be a great help. Thanks!

arobinson1984 has given you the best advice - you need to read up on how to cycle the tank and ideally get yourself some decent (non-strip) test kits. The important links are in their signature at the bottom of their posts.

How much water did you change? Water changes are basic maths - a 50% water change will only halve the chemicals in the tank, etc. If you want to drop chemicals such as nitrites and ammonia to safe levels (i.e. zero) you often need to do 75% (or more) water changes and sometimes multiple water changes a day. Don't worry about the hardness too much at this stage. It shouldn't be leaping all over the place anyway. Have you tested for ammonia? Ammonia and nitrites are the big killers in newly set up tanks and it's only by successfully cycling the tank that you can eliminate them efficiently.

I'm worried about your clams - what advice were you given when you bought them and do you know what species they are? Please read the info here and here about them, especially the posts by nmonks.

 

[stuuk1]

ok dont get caught on this cycle thing ok a cycle in a freshwater is not as bad as a saltwater cycle so there is no real way of getting a cycle going in freshwater because in saltwater you need liverock so in freshwater the only way to get a cycle going is by adding fish so your doing fine dont worry if you just did a water change dont worry about the test say there is not alot more you can really do as for a 65 littre tank that is an ok size fish tank for the fish you have just make sure you dont get any big fish. i kept a 300 littre fish tank i dont cycle in freshwater becuase i dont feel as you need to however i do beliven in waiting about 3 days before adding anyfish in what so ever as freshwater fish are really hardy things it take a real lot to make them stress out i hope this helps i know other member might not agree with what im saying but i have kept freshwater fish over 12 years with only loseing one fish in that whole time cheers David

What a ridiculous post! Whatever you do 'Ft fisher', do not follow the info stated in the above post! Your fresh water tank DOES need cycling, and as also said before, get a liquid test kit. The dip tests are terrible.

David12 may have had just 1 fish die in the whole 12 years he's kept fish. But I bet the fish that lived, werent very well.

 

[Ft fisher]

Thanks all for the advice, firstly i shall be dumping the test strips! I'll get the water tested with a liquid kit. I guess taking a sample to my local pet shop to get tested would be okay too, till i can afford a liquid test kit? All fish seem okay at the minute, but i'll still get the water double checked. Then should I do the water change depending on what the results of the more accurate water test is? Thanks again for all the comments guys, helped alot!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree with the others, this is a classic case of a Fish-In Cycling Situation with Ft.Fisher not having had access to nitrogen cycle knowledge and information in the past.

Ft.fisher it sounds like you're on the right track to beginning to get up to speed. The Nitrogen Cycle article and the Fish-In cycling article in our Beginners Resouce Center will contain the most fundamental information underlying what everyone's saying to you and it can take anyone several readings of these to have them begin to sink in, so don't worry about reading them more than once.

For any tank in a fish-in cycling situation, a good liquid-reagent based test kit is essential. While it can help to try and get some numbers from a test at the local shop, there are just lots of problems with trying to depend on that. First of all, it really takes -daily-, even -twice daily- testing and writing down of the results so you can see them in a string of multi-day information before you can really understand what's going on in your tank, especially if you're a beginner. Secondly, there are all sorts of things that can go wrong with shop testing. The employee might not actually know how to perform the test correcty. They might not do it carefully. They might not want to share the real numbers with you because that could mean they would not get a fish sale. All sorts of weird things like that are possibilities -- not saying they would happen, just that we've seen all these in our cases over the years.

In a fish-in cycling situation where you don't yet have good testing going, you have no choice but to assume things -might- be worse than you think. This is why significantly large daily water changes (with good technique) are called for. It can really take 75% (or maybe 60% or 50%) daily water changes to keep things safe until you can get a good kit and really find out. Without further information its pretty urgent that this be done.

Ammonia and nitrite(NO2) can each, individually, be highly damaging and stressful to fish. Ammonia, even in tiny amounts, causes permanent gill damage that can lead to shortened fish lives or death. Nitrite is actually a bit worse, acting indirectly to suffocate the fish and give rapid symptoms of brain and nerve damage that is permanent. Other concerns about water parameters or water changes are rendered rather unimportant when we are dealing with quantities of ammonia and nitrite potentially being present.

So, "insurance" water changes with good technique(using conditioner to remove chlorine/chloramines and rough temperature matching via your hand) and acquiring a good test kit are definately the right direction for you to be heading!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[David12]

ok you guys read to much on what you read on the internet to much so you go oh that must be right so you go on freshwater froums like this and soon as you see something that is quick you try and be a hero and say oh no dont listen to this guy i have looked after tangs and some of the hardest saltwater fish there is to look after to tell me that i am a lier stop reading all this stuff off the internet and go and start look at the right facts instead of everything you seee on the internet just becuase ammonia nirates nitrites show up on silly little test which are there to make money off you guys there only apply to saltwater fish freshwater fish can haddle stuff freshwater fish are the most easy fish there is to look after oh and by the way i have kept fish tanks that are over 900 littres

 

[toshapetriji]

Is 900 littres

bigger than 900 litres?

I would go with Waterdrop's advice if I were you. Worked well for me.

 

[roadmaster]

Is 900 littres

bigger than 900 litres?

I would go with Waterdrop's advice if I were you. Worked well for me.

+one for Waterdrop,s advice.Assuming one want's to give fishes best chance of survival. Many of those who post here,volunteer their time and knowledge in an effort to help others avoid the mistakes often made and to help people be successful with the hobby.
Others,,, who post ,,Who knows.
One need only look through any published book on proper care of aquarium Fishes to quickly decide where to place their trust. Books are edited for content and accuracy before being published and sound advice offered here,, and on other forums,,, will fall closely in line with that found in afore mentioned books.
Some who post here I suspect,, have been keeping fish for a very long time and suggestions and opinions reflect as much.
For others .. Pfffft!

 

[Assaye]

ok you guys read to much on what you read on the internet to much so you go oh that must be right so you go on freshwater froums like this and soon as you see something that is quick you try and be a hero and say oh no dont listen to this guy i have looked after tangs and some of the hardest saltwater fish there is to look after to tell me that i am a lier stop reading all this stuff off the internet and go and start look at the right facts instead of everything you seee on the internet just becuase ammonia nirates nitrites show up on silly little test which are there to make money off you guys there only apply to saltwater fish freshwater fish can haddle stuff freshwater fish are the most easy fish there is to look after oh and by the way i have kept fish tanks that are over 900 littres

Your point is simply "I know what I'm doing because I've kept fish for a long time and my fish are fine". You don't have any science to back you up - have your done autopsies on fish? Studied their psychology? Are you a fish sociologist? Do you know something the rest of the fishkeeping world doesn't about ammonia toxicity?

Yes, we've got a lot of our information online. From people just as experienced (if not more so) than you. You're not special, you don't know something we don't. By the sound of things, you've just assumed that because you've not left a trail of corpses behind you that you can ignore the scientific evidence. No, that just makes you lucky.

Freshwater fish DO suffer ammonia and nitrite poisoning. Freshwater fish DO benefit from being kept in tank with a cycled filter. Freshwater fish do die, regularly, from being placed into un-cycled tanks with owners who don't know about basic water testing and water changes. These are facts, and just because you are one lucky person who never worried about that and still managed to keep your fish alive, doesn't mean you're qualified to disagree with the facts.

I've seen horses and dogs kept "alive" while covered in wee and poo and having not been allowed out of kennels or stables for months. I've seen some pretty screwed up stuff. Many, many animals can "survive" when they need to. Just because you can't see ammonia in the water, floating around and causing damage, doesn't mean it isn't there. It's just the same as the dogs that have to be rescued by the RSPCA because they are forced to live in their own waste. You try making up an ammonia solution in your bath and lying in it while ammonia fumes are pumped into the room for days, if not weeks, and then tell me ammonia does no damage to fauna.

You've stated that we should look at the right facts. You've even implied that it is a "fact" that freshwater fish are not harmed by ammonia and nitrite. I'd like to see your evidence.

 

[Ryefish]

I didn't read Daves' posts because he needs to buy a full stop key, but i am wondering what the reading of NitrAtes and KH actually were?