very powerful piece on pitbulls

[Angry_Platy]

The thing that bothers me with pitbulls is the ability of their jaw to lock when they bear down. This is not trained into the dog, it is the physcal makeup of the dog. If a tame, family-oriented pitbull were to get annoyed at a child or other person, and decided to have a "snap" (yes, other dogs can do this as well), it may not be a snap and the chances of someone being able to pull the dog off are a LOT lower than your average terrier, shepherd etc. Noone can argue that this doesn't happen with pitbulls.

As for the statistics, they really need to look at how many people own pitbulls as compared to labradors and spaniels. It is common sense that if there are more spaniels than pit bulls anywhere, that more spaniels will have been recorded as having bitten. For accurate statistics they need to look at percentage of pitbulls that have attacked compared to other breeds. Simple statistics can make anything look good if people don't realise what they are looking at.

 

[Haiku]

Locking jaws is a myth. Locking jaw myth

There are actually LOTS of pits and pit mixes out there, but of course many bully breed mixes are dubbed pit bulls as well. I see them nearly as commonly as labs and I've definitely seen more pit owners than spaniel owners on the dog boards I visit. Labs and spaniels are especially targets for puppymills and I feel poor breeding and socialization brings the bite statistics up for those breeds, BUT, the same is true for pits. You have to look at the breed in its ideal standard, and pits that fit the standard in temperment are just as wonderful a pet as a lab.

 

[Opcn]

Hey now the real pit was my second choice, and look at them, the shape off the eyes and lower muzzle are the same, same neck same shoulders , same body, only difference is thenose and top of the muzzle and the stiffness of the ears.

We should get rid of dangerous things that hurt you on there own. if your car turned itself on, backed itself out of the driveway and ran down an old lady I would most certainly vote to have it sent to the wrecker.

Agressive beings have one thing in common for certain, there agressiveness. a dog that defends its territory against another dog can easily deside to deffend it against the little girl down the street, it can also easily deside that the little girls yard should be part of its territory too.

 

[mm_simb]

In that case we should be getting rid of a lot of people also. They tend to defend themselves too and kill on their own. Maybe not all of them do it, but what the heck? Might as well go for the whole thing while we're at it. And while we're at it, we can ban everything else that resembles a human .
The fact is, the only pitbulls that would attack a person are those that don't have good owners...not the ones that actually have registered pits. The only thing they are doing by having a ban on these dogs is punishing the responsible owners. Not many people with vicious dogs register their dogs therefore the only way the law would know they had these dogs is by seeing them. They wouldn't be able to go door to door everywhere to see if anyone owns an un-registered dog.
But these days, they just ban everything that they want.

 

[Opcn]

Your forgetting the people who we reem for breeding unregistered pittbulls.

 

[mm_simb]

Breeding unregistered pitbulls is not something a responsible owner would do. Breeding of any dog by someone who doesn't know anything or who wants their dog to have at least one litter is irresponsible eitherway...not just with pits.
I would love to see the government put mandatory licenses on these dogs so it would be harder for convicts and irresponsible owners to have them but the fact is that it's not going to happen. People would rather get rid of the problem than to try to fix it. It would also be great to have these licenses on people who want to breed responsibly...not going to happen though.

 

[Opcn]

I would be okay with mandatory special liscensing for dangerous breeds of dog, perhaps heavy leashes and muzzles in public with mandatory eutenasia for any dog caught outside of the owners controll, including inadequitly fenced yards

 

[mm_simb]

I agree with everything other than the euthanasia. I agree that they should be put to sleep if they attack someone...this should go for any dog though. I've been attacked by small dogs and I wouldn't have minded if they were put to sleep since the owners never put them in eitherway.
I think they should have really strict leash laws on them and have big fines for people that just have them running around loose. That would greatly reduce the number of stray dogs...especially in Texas
I honestly hate walking down the streets in Houston. There are dogs loose in every single block. They would practically attack if people didn't carry sticks. I learned to do that when a chihuahua mauled my leg .

 

[Haiku]

Yes let's be sure and force muzzles onto any big dog, including service dogs, search and rescue dogs, seeing eye dogs, and therapy dogs (many of which are "dangerous" breeds, including pitbulls). Not only that, let's automatically euthanize a member of someone's family even if they show no aggressive behavior if the pup gets out the door, breaks his leash, or someone leaves the gate open by accident and it gets free and romps off a bit.

You know, kids hurt/kill far more people than dogs do (by shooting, stabbing, etc etc), FAR more, but we don't lock them up, tie them up in public, or throw them in jail when they are caught out without adult supervision. They get the appropriate measures taken if and when they do something bad to hurt someone else, and the same should be true with dogs and their owners. Period. If a dog is out running the streets, the owner should be taken to task the same way parents would be if they were neglecting their kids.

My dogs ARE my kids, and I love them dearly, and I love dogs as a whole dearly. I have more respect for them than I do for a great many people. I can hardly stomach seeing them talked about as if their lives were so casually disposable.

 

[gaya]

My best friend has huge dogs and they are such barkers! Anyone would be afraid of them if they didn't know them personally. These dogs have never harmed a hair on anyones head but my girlfriend also has a huge fence in her yard. The first thing she did when she bought her new house was to spend five grand on her fence for the dogs. That seems like a simple enough resolution for dog owners. The idea of banning a breed would not work because of the black market. Where there is demand there is supply and its not like our law enforcement would have the bucks to spend on dog control. I think there should be licensing for dogs though. Not everyone should be allowed to have/own a large dog.

 

[splashluff]

thats an awesome link!! I also saw that several months ago, and its sooo nice to see some truth finally opening peoples eyes.

Opcn, you've obviously never met a well-socialized American Pit Bull Terrier. They're some of the all-around sweetest, loyalist, kindest natured, most non-snappy breeds. People who breed purebred, registered, working APBT's breed for a wonderfully sweet, reliable, and tolerant temperament towards people above ALL. It is NOT the dogs that are the problem, its people. People kill each other 10000% more than dogs kill people. The ratio of # of dogs to # of bites per year is not even close. That said, millions of people abuse, neglect, beat, starve, and train their dogs to BE vicious!! If YOU were kept in a small yard or cage your entire life and forced to attack other people in order to eat and live, wouldn't YOU do it?? Dogs are not born evil or bad, they're raised that way. Just like when dogs are raised in a good environment, they grow up to be wonderful dogs. The solution to these problems is NOT to ban breeds or discriminate against them... we need to educate kids as they are the future dog owners, educate people, enforce strict cruelty/dog fighting laws, enforce licensing laws, restrict dog breeding and offer MORE pulic awareness and oportunities to learn how to train and raise dogs. Animal abuse is a misdemeanor... the most severe fine is $1000 for brutally murdering/torturing a dog. The number of bites dogs inflict on people per year cannot even begin to hold a candle to the unforgivable cruelties that millions of sick people put dogs through all the time! And the number of bites cannot even compare to the wonderful companionship, love, and aid millions of dogs bring to their families, law enforcement, disabled people, etc.

Wanting to ban/euthanize ALL dogs that can POTENTIALLY harm a person is disgustingly destructive and cruel. I do think you need to better educate yourself about dogs and animals in general. And, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to listen to any of the opinions some one has on APBT's who can't even spell their name right and knows nothing about them except what some of the media spews out!! Don't you remember, 10 years ago the "vicious" breed that was always in the news attacking children was Doberman Pinschers? And before that, German Shepherds? This is a TREND, NOT started by the dogs themselves, but by sick PEOPLE who think raising and breeding vicious dogs makes them cool and is a status symbol. Have you ever noticed that 90% of dogs sitting in shelters are Pit Bulls? That is NOT because they bite people (shelters REFUSE to adopt out dogs that bite), NOT because of anything they've done... it's because it is currently trendy and common, especially in inner-cities, to breed Pitties. These millions of Pit Bulls in shelters do not come from seasoned reputable breeders who temperment and health test the registered parents, show the dogs, and raise the puppies in a good environment. They come from amateur, neglectful, backyard breeders. If it weren't for these irrensponsible PEOPLE ruining the breed, Pit Bulls would be (as they were years ago) a healthy and well-rounded breed of dog.

 

[Opcn]

if the leash breaks then its not adequit, and inadequit leashes lead to dead people, besides anyone whos not a complete idoit who should be euthenised themselves should be able to inspect a leash and know if its going to hold there dog, webbing is incredibly sturdy stuff. If its enough a part of your family that you want to protecxt it than you should take the steps to protect it, Gayas yard story is a fantastic example of a good dog owner, even though she feels her dogs could never hurt anyone she is doing what society asks,she should be given a medal, well no she shouldn't, everyone should follow her example though.

Splashluff, people do kill each other more than dogs kill people, but angry people kill more than crazy people, does that mean we should let the criminally insane run free? perhaps APBT's are loyal, the fact is nost of the people mauled and scared FOR LIFE aren't mauled by there own dogs but by someone elses, and that most of those other owners plead for there dogs and say that they never show any agression, most owners turn a blind eye to there own dogs, and that blind eye kills people, I'm a very strong advocate of strict prison sentences and measures that could be taken to lower crime rates, this is just one aspect of my crusade against ppeoplesstupidity and ignorance hurting people who may or may not share those traits, if your stupidty and ignorance kill you then I don;t care, but when they endanger society I have a major problem with it. I think valueing a dogs freedom over peoples safety is criminal, and I think anyone who thinks that the random public doesn't need to be protected from danger in any form is an absolute idiot.

 

[Bloo]

For those of you who enjoy statistics to report facts - here is an interesting US government report. Make of it what you want to.
Ps: go down to page 3 onwards for the report about canine related injuries and fatalaties.

 

[mm_simb]

I'm sure the public should be protected from danger but then again mostly everything is dangerous these days. They cannot ban a whole breed just because a few dogs don't act the standard way. They are dogs! Not humans. They don't think the same way we do. We cannot possibly want them to think logically when confronting someone. A well socialized dog (any dog) is going to be a sweet and loving dog. A dog that hasn't been socialized is not. That's the point. Not the breed. And nobody else tell me that these dogs were bred to be aggressive toward humans because they were not. They were bred to be aggressive toward other dogs but with good socialization they can be with other dogs. I know my friend's pit is the nicest dog I've ever met. The worst thing he can ever do to me is lick me. He puts up with an annoying 2 year old pulling on his tail and bothering him. He puts up with my boyfriend's lab jumping all over him although he sure looks like he's annoyed. And he's a real pit. Not like the "pits" that are sometimes shown on TV because they mauled someone. The media just picks on these dogs because they are easy to pick on.
Euthanasia on a dog that runs away or gets away from the leash is unfair and a stupid suggestion. Sometimes they don't even kill people that kill other people, why should they do it to dogs? After all, we are supposed to be more civilized than dogs, aren't we? If they euthanized every dog that ran loose even if they just ran away there would be thousands of lawsuits because I know I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't do anything if I knew someone killed my dog just because it ran away. God help the poor person that dare put a hand on my dog to put it to sleep.
And of course people aren't mauled by their own dogs. A dog that does that is really in the low count. It's going to do it to someone they don't even know.
Opcn, I understand you love getting the last word but you are never going to change people's minds by insulting . I also understand that nobody can really come into an understanding with you unless they have the same opinions and I pity the person that thinks that these dogs are so cruel and that they should all die. I really do...

 

[pica_nuttalli]

er, as a fan of raspberries, i found the first article interesting as well.

My great aunt owned several "pit bulls" (that i can remember) before she died. They were all acquired from the local humane society. Mmy great aunt lived in a semi-rural area near a rough part of town. She was paranoid that people would try to invade her property, thus she made a point to own big, scary looking dogs. My dad was afraid of a dog hurting her, so he made a point of carefully selecting big friendly dogs.

I can only remember three of the "pit bulls" clearly. Two were adult females, but on reflection I think the second one was only a pit bull mix. Both were kept indoors a large portion of the time. The first girl, Prissy, had her ears lopped off--indicating that she had been intended as a fighter originally. She was a very active dog when younger and could easily knock my brother and I (aged between 5 and 11) down when we tried to play with her. She never growled at us that i can remember, but at some point Prissy started being an outside dog whenever we came over. The second girl, Molly, was much larger and stronger than Prissy. Molly was always quiet and had obviously been abused by a man because she would always retreat from my dad immediately. My dad always told us to be very gentle with Molly so that we wouldn't scare her. Molly was very devoted to my great aunt and followed her everywhere. Molly also made a special point to always stand between my great aunt and any strangers.

The one male "pit bull" my great aunt owned (Bubba) was too hyperactive to be in the house. Bubba lived in the backyard with a Blue Merle Collie while Molly lived inside. While he would bark at any car in the driveway, he never growled at anyone. The only time Bubba was aggressive was if a strange dog walked by the fence. Then Bubba would snarl, snap and just generally threaten to attack the other dog.

I guess my points are that (1) pit bulls are well known, in my area at least, as dogs that can be extremely violent, (2) pit bulls can come from wildly varied pasts but have generally docile temperaments, and (3) a pit bull's attitude towards people and dogs is dependent on whether or not they are in the same "pack".

while i don't think that all large breed dogs should be euthanized, i do support using licenses to regulate who owns them (preferably one involving a randomized test of proper training and legislation, much like that for a driver's license). i do, however, support local initiatives to control stray dog populations via euthanization of unspayed/un-neutered after a wait period of a month or so. if you can't care enough about your dog to fix it, fence it or find it, then you can't complain if you lose it.