Veiltails

[LauraFrog]

I've done it again... my second veiltail. There are a few nice bettas at the LFS at the moment. One VT that looks like Valhalla, probably full sibling. Difficult, but I didn't buy him, I don't need two the same. A few nice CT's that I would have bought if I had the room. And an orange marbled VT, looks pretty much the same as Netty's Strudel. I couldn't resist, the LFS is holding him for me (paid).

I heard that VT's are completely out at the moment because all the pet shop VT's are inbred, poor quality, sick etc. Well these aren't and they're really nicely marked as well. A lot of you have seen Valhalla... when I get to pick up the new guy (probably today) I'll put up some photos of him as well.

So why is there no demand for VT's even good quality ones? I think they're quite nice personally. And what happens when you cross VT with DeT/SD/HM/OHM? Or VTxCT? Is it a mixture of the two in the fry, like half one half the other, or do you get something that's displaying kind of half and half? I'd like to try it... my LFS only ever has VT and CT, males and females so if I can get my hands on DeT/SD/HM/OHM I will buy it.

 

[azulfire24]

well no one realy bothers to breed the vts cause lack of a better word is they are mostly pet fish. what i mean is there are sooooo many vts they are breed in huge quanties by oversea breeders for pet shops. the fancier types bring more money so a small breeder wont bother with a ''pet quality fish'' that, in many cases cant be sold due to a huge over availbity. most pet shops wont pay anythig for vt cause they can only sell them for so much. now as far as personality they are great fish too but a fancier type can be just as nice and bring a larger dollar ant for a breeder. pluss when u breed vt to anything else say ct or hm or sd u almost always get a vt, its the dominant tale type, so you would be making less valulble fish that you might have a hard time selling...

 

[LauraFrog]

If you don't want a rant on fish genetics, stop reading here.

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Okay. I get genetics (full marks on genetics test last term).
So. Veiltail is dominant. Full pure breeding veiltail = VV
I take it that crowntail is dominant - vv.

So F1 veiltail x crowntail - all fry = Vv which means they all look like veiltails but carry crowntail gene.

F1 vtct x pure crowntail... hmmm *can't do punnet square on comp*

F2 - 50% vv 50% Vv.

Damn.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was hoping there might have been codominance there. (VC or vc) So it's either VT or CT, no chance that you can get a VT with rays extended below the tail?

What about DeT/SD/HM/OHM? And btw DT? Are they dominant or recessive?

 

[liz2]

tee hee well done on the vt. He sounds like my Seb who looks just like Strudel. You said about not getting 2 the same, I had 2 cts and they were almost identical. They looked so cute each side of a dividing tank like looking at their own reflections.....photos photos photos

 

[dusky]

Same old story really isnt it everyone wants something bigger, better, fancier and the lowlier things get forgotton and unwanted. If everyone started saying how wonderful vt's are and that ct's are out of fashion and that vt's are the 'in' thing at moment their popularity would grow again and ct's would be 'out'. But because it starts off that something isn't so good alot of people follow suite to stay with the current trend. Well i think that vt's are lovely and i've got three gorgeous ones each with totaly different characters ...Long live the VT's. Start a trend don't be a follower for ever .

vids below but not very good. Please note before someone jumps in and starts going off on one that they were only in the jar for a few mins and then went back to their luxury mansion,, they'd just popped out to the shed for a piccie.!!! (got up to find the blue one which was the quiestest has built a huuuuge bubble nest this morning)

 

[Deefus]

I think VT's are lovely too.. my Alfie's a VT, and he's just bootiful
I think if I was to get another, I'd go for another VT too

 

[ibbledibble]

If you don't want a rant on fish genetics, stop reading here.

____________________________________________________________________________


Okay. I get genetics (full marks on genetics test last term).
So. Veiltail is dominant. Full pure breeding veiltail = VV
I take it that crowntail is not dominant - vv.

So F1 veiltail x crowntail - all fry = Vv which means they all look like veiltails but carry crowntail gene.

F1 vtct x pure crowntail... hmmm *can't do punnet square on comp*

F2 - 50% vv 50% Vv.

Damn.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was hoping there might have been codominance there. (VC or vc) So it's either VT or CT, no chance that you can get a VT with rays extended below the tail?

What about DeT/SD/HM/OHM? And btw DT? Are they dominant or recessive?

i'm fairly sure you are right with this info, breeding VT's to CT's will usually produce a mix of VT's with CT genotype, & combtails, which are a mix between a crowntail and a non crowntail type. you get the tail shape of the non CT parent, with slight extensions to the end of the fins

sometimes, breeders use VT's to lengthen a tail, whereas if PK's are used, the tail gets shortened, it seems common for the majority of the fry to take on more charecteristics of the mother than the father, but i'm not sure why this is.

for some reason VT seems to be the most dominant overall, not sure how the others would rank after this.

hope that helps, it was a little bit rambling!

 

[Night61]

my baby is a vail tail too there is nothing wrong with him. he is a lovely little fish who really keeps me company during the week. he has so much personality i really love the little guy. i look foward to getting more vail tails. i wanna rescue as many as i can safely store and give them a safe and happy life. ^.^

 

[LauraFrog]

I personally think that when you go too far with a fish's breeding you seriously interfere with its quality of life. I have kept crowntails (Password is 180 spread, long rays, DDR) and Valhalla (veiltail) has very long fins even for a VT. I've seen videos of DT, OHM and all the other strains with huge amounts of fin. None of them have any appreciable difficulty in swimming or behaving like bettas. I think though that when people do to them what they do with fancy guppies and goldfish, I will just vote with my feet and keep bettas that can enjoy their lives without being burdened by fins they can barely carry. Personally I won't keep fancy goldfish or guppies because I can't stand to see my fish suffer. When you see an old guppy with an L-bend in its spine from holding up its tail all its life, it's clear that it has suffered.

Plumy VT's? Sounds interesting - I'm inclined to make the cross just to see what happens! lol

 

[LauraFrog]

Here he is - introducing Heatstroke! Crap photos, he's in a curved glass container. 1 gal jar... sucks I know but he's going into a divided 5 gal (filtered) as soon as I get it, prob Saturday.

 

[Million]

Okay. I get genetics (full marks on genetics test last term).
So. Veiltail is dominant. Full pure breeding veiltail = VV
I take it that crowntail is dominant - vv.

So F1 veiltail x crowntail - all fry = Vv which means they all look like veiltails but carry crowntail gene.

F1 vtct x pure crowntail... hmmm *can't do punnet square on comp*

F2 - 50% vv 50% Vv.

Damn.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was hoping there might have been codominance there. (VC or vc) So it's either VT or CT, no chance that you can get a VT with rays extended below the tail?

What about DeT/SD/HM/OHM? And btw DT? Are they dominant or recessive?

I wouldn't have thought that the inheritance of such a major component of the body would be a matter of simple dominant/recessive mendelian inheritance, I think there are a large number of genes involved, and probably elements of codominance too. I've never bred Bettas, and don't know them that well, but this is just my reckoning.

 

[LauraFrog]

I think there has to be some codominance in there somewhere - how else do you get things like the halfsun turning up? I wish there was a website that discussed it all in detail but I can't find one. I don't have the time or space to randomly breed bettas just to see what happens - if I end up with a few hundred fry I don't have the time to feed it and see what it turns into. Surely somebody has already done it?

 

[liz2]

He is beautiful and he does look like strudel and seb. I love bettas so much I go into a shop an I dont think that is a vt, ct, dt etc. I think OMG you are beautiful and I buy him....that called dedication to the bettas....

 

[LauraFrog]

I think about the tailtype as in 'this is x - what should the fins look like?' I always do it to make sure they're healthy. But I wouldn't decide to buy or not buy a betta based on its tail type, unless it was a spectacular example of a particular sort of finnage.

 

[Million]

I think about the tailtype as in 'this is x - what should the fins look like?' I always do it to make sure they're healthy. But I wouldn't decide to buy or not buy a betta based on its tail type, unless it was a spectacular example of a particular sort of finnage.

That's a good way of doing it I think

Where in Queensland you from Laura? I used to live in Brisbane