Valerie and Lyle are making love faces

Nice SRC, I'll add cultures and hatcheries to that list of things you need, and lastly time. I spend at least 3 hours a day doing water changes alone before any feeding and other care. I don't work outside my home and I don't have school so this is what I do.
 
I don't think there are "homeless" vt's out there, most pet stores will buy VTs. Because honestly, 95% of people would have no clue what you were talking about if you went in and asked if they wanted to buy some halfmoons, crowntails, etc. I know my lfs wouldn't. And if they did, they probably wouldn't want to pay the price you wanted for them. Unless you sell your bettas on aquabid or go to auctions then you aren't going to make any money anyway. I remember when I was thinking about breeding my CTs, I asked every lfs in the area beforehand... 1 out of 5 knew what I was talking about and they all offered me VT price.

I think irresponsible people killing VTs because they don't know how to care for their fish is what happens, not the VTs not getting homes. If you think a person is going to take better care of a halfmoon then a VT because they paid more for it or because it's a "purebred", your wrong. We aren't talking about dogs here, the "mutt" fish aren't going to loose homes because 95% of people don't know the difference between a "mutt" betta and a "purebred" betta. If you ask me... there is no reason to breed any at all, purebred or not. I find dying deltas and plakats in cups at petco all the time, so doesn't mean the nice ones get homes either. And by breeding nice, "purebred" (if you can even call it that) bettas doesn't help because all you do is weaken the gene pool by inbreeding sibling pairs. So if you think about it, they really aren't "pure" at all.

Someone might have already said that... I didn't read this whole thread. And why is it all about the money to some people? If this girl wants to breed for experience and to gain knowledge about her fish and doesn't care about loosing money, then why bash her for it? We all blow hundreds on our decorative tanks every year. Heck, half of us don't even breed our fish so we aren't making any money off of them. As long as she gets homes for her VTs and has everything she needs then what's the problem? You all jumped her and assumed she didn't even read or plan ahead. :no: :rolleyes:
 
Didn't know that... haven't been on the betta part of the forum much. But still, kinda rude. If you tell her no in a rude way she'll do it anyway just to prove to you all that she can do it, so... eh.
 
Maybe before you jump on those trying to give her advice..you should actually read the whole thread..and mull over the valid points.

This is not about money....persay. Except for the fact of if she doesn't HAVE the money it will take to do this (and if she didn't know how much it will cost in the long run)..and then goes ahead and does it and find out she doesn't have the funds/time/space...then she will have fish that have no way to be taken care of. What will happen then?

You are wrong about LFS being willing to just "take" VT's...unless you give them to them..and unless they are out and aren't getting anymore anytime soon...they only have so much room for a certain amount of fish in each store.

If they just received a shipment from their supplier (who they have contracts with) and they are full up with the same type fish you are peddling, they are NOT going to take yours. If they are due a shipment from their supplier and won't have room ..they aren't going to take them. They get those fish for penny's on the dollar...you aren't going to beat a mass producer's bulk prices (unless you jsut give them to them for free). A higher quality, more "exotic" looking betta will peek their interest alot more then a VT. Because if the local people have not seen them...they will want them..and the LFS can charge more for them.

Supply = Demand = Profit = main line to a LFS.

So there she will be with 200+ fish.

LFS people know exactly what you are talking about when you say Crown Tail and Delta, and Halfmoon....they run a FISH STORE for christ sake lol. If your LFS doesn't know what type fish they are selling and what they can get...you need to shop elsewhere...because that is no different then Walmart.


And most "purebred" betta's that end up at LFS..are the ones that aren't of the best "quality" anyways..those are usually sold on AB.
 
I agree 100% with Sorrell and SRC.

I also think it's a shame when good advice is shunned because it isn't what people want to hear. :/
 
Very good points from SRC on how much it costs :)

I don't want to get into an arguement but is it possible for you to go and see a Breeder's set up and fish room before you start? I don't think that people can really get their heads round how much time and space is needed for betta fry than if you compare it to breeding guppies etc. My kitchen looks like Dexter's Laboratory most of the time and my husband is always complaining that I'm "playing with my fishes AGAIN" :crazy:

It might help you get everything right for your bettas if you are adamant on breeding them. Just a thought -_-
 
When someone asks for advice, the best any person can do is give their own advice and opinions. The recipient is the one who decides whats going to happen. There is no sense arguing and making new grudges.
 
I agree with the main point here: don't breed unless you are prepared & have done the research. We don't mind giving advice on breeding, just don't ask us something that if you were actually interested in breeding bettas, you would know by looking around and reading, even just a little bit. If you don't have the incentive to research many possible resources, and then ask some questions to verify what you don't understand. That's the responsible breeder's responsibility, and that is what the members of this forum are trying to communicate to those who don't want to do anything except have a little fun "breeding" bettas. Don't be mad for someone telling you something you don't want to hear, especially if you are talking to the public, and it seems like the members here aren't enjoying telling people this, especially not when they over react. Take the knowledge and advice from these people who have been there and done that, not just toss it off because it wasn't what your mind had dreamily constructed about having lots of beautiful bettas. People don't line up to buy VTs, so they aren't in demand in the world where people actually care and take on preserving and promoting the fishes overall conservation and development of a better betta. In reality, nothing about the current betta splendens, even the vieltails, are generated by nature, they are man's development. So, in a way, you are playing your own god with your own bettas and decisions you make regarding reproduction and survival of anything to come out of your betta. So, don't take on the idea and activity of reproducing the betta splendens lightly. If you are going to do it, do it in a way you are helping the species, not contributing to the problem of too many bettas unwanted. Alot of the number of fish you see go through your Petsmart and big chains buy from a wholesaler, where they purchase crates of fish even, most dying before they even hit pet store shelves, or in the new home of someone who thought they would like to try a betta as the walk past the displays at stores. They aren't that expensive to them or the store, and there is such a large quantity of them avaliable, you never hit the bottom of the barrell. It is a never ending cycle of death, and the VT is the main victim of this cruelty. Sorrell doesn't want you, or anyone else contributing to this problem. People are so worried about what someone says to them because it's not peachy keen, that instead of listening and being objective and considering another opinion they haven't thought of, they just forge ahead and say they want to try it, and they can find homes for the fish, that I'm sorry to say, you won't be able to sell. You must have alot of friends to think you could possibly find homes for up to several hundred bettas, or to think you could sell them to the LFS for more than a dollar or two.

If you want to get into breeding, than that's great. We encourage it, but only when handled by responsible people who have put in an effort to atleast find out all positives and negatives for them, and the fishs' lives that they are creating. You should be able to get you a decent pair to atleast start with, or to even attempt to see if it is a feasible hobby for you to pursue from another breeder in the States. Alot of IBC breeders have extra stock they don't sell because they are show quality, or are the lower quality stock they don't wish to breed into lines of fish worth hundreds of dollars. Some may have a price that is not bad for a pair, sometimes getting quality for $10 and up for a pair, or for free minus your shipping cost(unless you find a local breeder or IBC show to attend). These fish are still from a gene pool where you can know what to expect what you are getting, and you should be able to sell some of these fish, probably not for alot, around $5-$10 dollars, but a VT wouldn't bring you that in a million years(unless you have a excentric betta lover or an idiot). Others that don't sell you can give away, or even help other breeders like yourself starting out who don't want to invest alot of money to start off with in a breeding pair. You might have to wait longer than you want to get started the right way, but consider what you are doing, atleast for the sake of the fishies who didn't have a soul before you created their lives. They deserve good homes too, but atleast know you can provide for them if you do are going to do it, and not have to kill some of them because you couldn't find enough homes.

If you are interested, contact some of the members of IBC to find out if something is avaliable to you that wouldn't contribute to the betta in the cup plague that spreads throughout the United States of the chain fish stores. Also, if your LFS doesn't know those things about bettas, they are fish people, like was stated before, or atleast uneducated ones. Independantly owned LFS most of the time know about the newer tail types and desire them, but mostly only will trade you credit to their store. This is still a betta in a cup, that will most likely die on the shelf or as someones new impluse buy. You can contribute to charites, if you can locate one in your area, and is willing to do a fundraiser like that. Personally, I have never heard of people buying them from overseas to sell as a fundraiser. Who is buying them there? More impulse buys, or I guess it's just $5 bucks, even though I don't want the fish, I'll give it to my son; or it's just a fish, if I lose it, oh well, I didn't waste that much money.

Please, if you are a person who is sensitive to people talking to you who aren't your parents telling you things that you want to hear, then don't ask for a person's opinion, because that is what every statement on the forum is, just an opinion, or another side of the story. You should also learn to take constructive criticism in a positive manner, not biting back, or being rude to others who have taken time to try and help you, or atleast, the fish.
 
Sorrell said:
I apologize if the truth sounds negative to you, but that's your interpretation not mine. -_-

The betta forum has really turned to crap in the last month or so and I'm not the only one who feels this way. We are so caught up in being "the friendliest forum around" that instead of being a place where people can receive good advice they come here to be coddled while they make poor choices and kill their fish. Personally, I would rather all of you hate me and be giving good advice then the alternative.

I'm not going to sit and and tell people to breed their fish when they are completely unprepared with poor stock. It's just not going to happen so don't hold your breath.

This section is seriously turning into a joke. I spend more time going around and correctly ludacris information then anything else and that's absolutely ridiculous.
Well said. That's why I don't spend much time here anymore.

Anybody can do anything they want, there are endless possibilities. But I just hope all of you who decide, "yes, it's not a great thing to breed veils, but I'm going to do it anyway because that's what I want to do" take time to look at all the repercussions. If you do, and decide to breed them anyway, I hope you feel guilty every time you walk by rotting veils in cups at Wal*Mart, and realize that you are contributing to that.

Every person has a choice to live responsibly and with integrity, every moment of every day you can make that choice. Hope you will all make decisions you can live with.

Steph, keep fighting the good fight if you want to, and don't let anyone tell you to stop. Same goes for the rest of my peeps - you know who you are. ;)

For the rest of you - it's been fun. Really. No, I mean that...Oh wait. No, it actually hasn't been fun for some time. I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over, tired of trying to convince people I know what I'm talking about. And when you get right down to it, people will do what people will do. I've been letting this board get me too riled up. You guys want to make poor decisions that will result in you being stuck with hundreds of unsellable fish? Go for it. I no longer feel the need to tell you not to. It ain't going to affect me.

I need a break from this forum. I"ll see you all later.
 

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