Upgrading My Shrimp Tank

[Mamashack]

Funny you should ask that, Dandyman!! Just had my first real scare!
Had left the cooling fans off all day as the temp had gone down to 19.5 this morning and the shrimp were a bit sluggish. When I got in from work this evening the temp was 22 so on the fans went again. I must have turned away for only a few seconds and when i turned back there was a shrimp on top of the lid squirming about - it must just have jumped out as I turned. Managed to get it back in quickly and it swam away so hopefully no real damage done - fingers crossed!
Then I got to thinking livestock generally only tries to escape when something's not right - so I tested the water and yikes! Nitrates were 25!!! I'd only done a 33% w/c yesterday to get the TDS down from 290 to 250 and the nitrates were only 10 before the w/c. So where is all that nitrate coming from? Had to do a rapid 95% water change since my tap water is 5 ppm nitrates today. The shrimp have perked up considerably since the water change so maybe their sluggishness was due to nitrates and not the temperature.
Have removed all but the moss balls, cholla log and a single guava leaf that I'd only put in on Weds. Have received some banana leaves and alder cones today and was planning to put those in tonight but I'm reluctant now to add anything that might break down and cause another rapid rise in nitrates!
Whoever said that cherry shrimp were easy to care for?? I have to say it's been quite stressful at times!
I'm now going to go and lie down with the back of my hand to my forehead and sigh a lot! lol

 

[Mamashack]

Temperature 19.3 again this morning altho it soon warmed up with the light on. Think I'll have to turn the fans off overnight and see what impact that has.
Have also place plastic mesh over the gaps in the lid just in case there are any more Houdinis in there!

 

[TallTree01]

Should it be so low? Are these not tropical shrimps?

 

[Mamashack]

It should be 21 ish according to the breeder. So yes it was a quite low, courtesy of the cooler nights! Will try without the fans on tonight and maybe today depending on what the temperature is when I set off for work this afternoon.

 

[Mamashack]

Well after a night's sleep I decided to try the alder cones and banana leaves and added them this morning.
They floated for a while but had sunk by the time I got home from work this evening and have turned the water the colour of weak tea.
Have to admit I panicked a bit when there was not a sign of a single shrimp when I got in tonight. Moved the guava leaf and about 8 of them were under the leaf and to be honest they all looked stoned! Hardly moving at all maybe a little grazing but nothing much.
Are they just well and truly chilled by these new things or could it be a sign of something more sinister?
The nitrates this evening are still at 5 ppm, I checked the pH too as these things are supposed to slowly reduce the pH, but the tannins spoiled the colour of the test tho it could still have been between 7.4 and 7.8
The temperature was up to 23.6 when I got home so the fans are back on <note to self - must remember to turn them off at bedtime!>

 

[Mamashack]

Got up this morning to a tank at 23.8⁰C having turned both fans off when it was at 22.2⁰ last night. Might have to keep one of the fans on overnight and see how that goes.
I could hardly see the shrimp this morning as it looked almost like black-water! Removed the 2 banana leaves and put them in with the betta et al in the 30L tank.
The shrimp don't seem to be as active as they were before and I'm hoping it's because they are well-chilled, man!
Should I have scalded the cones before adding them? I did boil the banana leaves for 5 mins as advised on the packet which might explain the tannin release I guess.
Perhaps I should have left well alone. Just trying to make it a good place for them to live. <sigh!>

 

[Zikofski]

okay am i missing sometbing why are you adding leafs to tan the water? and i personally dont think the nitrate u had would have caused thenshrimp to jump out itnprobably got stsrtledmby you banging or tapping on something or even walkivg by, everytime
i walk past my tank or stand up my fish all jump and yea one haa tried to jump out when the lid to my tank fell down. im still not convinced either with the temprerures these shrimp are kept in is correct based on one breeder if these are anything like the normal red cherrys then i have breed them in temps of 26c and can be kept up to 28acording to some soghts i look at so 23c
shouldnt be a problem for you altho dropping to 19 may be a problem cheerys are very active shrimp and i mean very active. im keeping my tank at 23 when i get my shrimp my tds will rise with the ferts i add but maybe nearer 100-200 ph will be 6.5 i think injected co2 enviroment creates your increase in nitrates could just be a unoticed shell maybe or could have come from the leaf you put in maybe the newer leafs where cleaner or not breaking down so muxh also how oftern are you feeding and does the rise in nitrate coinside with that?
oh and forgot to mention i dont use flake for my fish i use sinking pellets but crushing them up as my small fish cant handle them my amanos seem to like them tho
and just to mention i have almost finished my video for my new tank that i showed you in pm been working on that before making the journal, ive been waiting on approval from an artist to use her music which i was approved over the weekend so hope i can finish it and get it uploaded this week

 

[Mamashack]

I didn't add stuff specifically to increase the tannins, but was trying to give them something to graze on when they are not actively being fed by me - have been tempted to feed daily tho I know it's not necessary. Fancy Shrimp recommend feeding only once a week and letting them graze on leaves etc the rest of the time. I'd read that banana leaves, guava leaves and alder cones were good so I thought I'd try them. I think the mistake I made was boiling the banana leaves as per the packet instructions and that made them leach all the tannins and maybe stunned the shrimp. The tank that the banana leaves went into hasn't changed at all so it must have been the boiling that did it. Have done a 50 % water change and at least I can see them now. 
 
I realise I have been a bit obsessive about the temperature and stuff, but I am trying to match the conditions they were raised in which are:
temperature 21⁰C - have managed to keep it around 22
nitrates ≤ 10 ppm
TDS ≈ 250 ppm - topping up with lower TDS replacement water when it gets to about 270
It is proving difficult to go more than a few days between water changes sticking with these parameters. (altho the nitrates seem to be settling and I'm wondering if maybe it was the substrate leaching ammonia or something that was being converted to NO3 and now it's spent - only time will tell)
I maybe need to relax the levels a bit and see how it goes. 
 
I have been informed recently that the white pearls aren't actually cherries altho for all intents and purposes they are very similar and have similar needs. They are still Neocaridinas, but palmata rather than davidi.
I have also been told that my lovely little feeding dish is possibly too deep and can cause O2 deprivation <sigh!>
Anyways, onwards and upwards! lol
 
Looking forward to seeing your video, Zik!.

 

[Mamashack]

Not sure if I'm allowed to say this on here, but have found a similar forum to this (with the same programme and all) dedicated to shrimp- keeping and other inverts, but mainly shrimp. I think it's fairly new based on the membership number, but so far I've found them very helpful and willing to share just like on here.
If anyone's interested it's this one:
http/www.shrimpspot.com/
I think most of the membership is from the US or Canada, but the information translates even if the sales and giveaways aren't really possible for UK members.  
 
Am trying to source ready made R. O water since the nitrates continue to rise to 20 ppm in less that a week. My tap water is running at 5 ppm at the moment so that doesn't allow much leeway for keeping it at 10 ppm or less. 
Does anyone know of a reasonable supplier of R.O water in the UK? Haven't the room for my own unit so I'd have to get it pre-filtered.

 

[fm1978]

Thanks again for the link. It is a friendly place for shrimp lovers!
 
Have you tried cooled-down boiled water yet, Mama? Granted it'll be difficult to get large volumes but it could help reduce some of the bad stuff for the time being until you source RO. Did you ever consider one of those Nitrax sponges and getting the tabs out to put in your filter to reduce Nitrates?
 
http/www.amazon.co.uk/Juwel-0557-Nitrate-removal-sponge/dp/B0018LUXH0
 
Could be cheaper and less hassle in the long run...
 
Turns out some of my Fire Reds may have had some sort of parasite type thing called Vorticella - sounds like an after dinner drink to me, so I'll need to go do some research and see if there's a treatment available over this side of the water. 

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks, fm I have actually managed to track some R.O water to a plant centre about 10 miles from here. It's £2.50 per 25L tho you have to supply your own water carriers, but that's easy to sort. I'll check out that link you've posted and see what I think.
How many tabs do you get in the sponge and how long do they last in general? They certainly would be less hassle than collecting R.O water but if it has to be done then I'll do it.
Would boiling tap water reduce the amount of nitrates? Would have thought that the resulting evaporation would make it go up rather than down, but am by no means sure of that.
 
Hope you manage to find something that will treat your shrimp - have never heard of Vorticella - it sounds too close to Valpolicella for comfort! lol

 

[fm1978]

I know! It got me rather excited as I quite like a wee drink!
 
Ah, you're right, I'm wrong. It might help with some bad stuff, but, you're right it has the opposite affect on Nitrates! Sorry about that, my mistake
 
I find the tabs from the sponge alright. There were about 5 in the one I had and I only put a small bit from 1 of them. Not sure of the longevity, still seems to be working with the same bit for the 3 ish weeks I've had it in there. I'll do another test tonight and see if there's any rises in Nitrates and report back. 

 

[Mamashack]

Cheers fm!
Sounds like a reasonable solution - will deffo look into that then!

 

[Zikofski]

hey mama seems to have been along time for me without a ful tank shot, give us kind people a new picture for us to drool and gorge our eyes on

 

[Mamashack]

By special request a new full tank shot especially for Zik and a few others I couldn't resist taking!

 
 
Nom Nom Nom

 
 
Marvel admiring her reflection

 
 
My moss-ball has a bump! Is it pregnant? lol