Update- Snail Is Doing Better, Thanks!

[trianglekitty]

I just started a 5 gallon tank for a betta, an apple snail, and two ghost shrimp. The snail is only a temp. resident- he's for a friend's tank when it finishes cycling.

The 5 gallon tank is seeded from my bigger tank, and ammonia and nitrite are both at 0. But the betta is acting stressed- he keeps making loops across the back of the tank. One of the shrimp died within 24 hours (and the betta was not picking at them). The snail is open, but looks "wrong"- he's hanging open, half on his size. He is alive, though.

The tank has a large filter that I had to slow for the betta's benefit. I attached floss to where the water comes out to slow the flow...now I'm worried I slowed it TOO much. Because the filter isn't making a splash, could all of this be from low O2 levels?

I'm adding a bubble stone, but I just wanted opinions if I'm on the right or wrong track here. Could there be something else I'm missing if all the levels check out right? I used a rubberband to attach the floss- could there be chemicals in that that could affect the residents?

 

[nosoup4you]

I just started a 5 gallon tank for a betta, an apple snail, and two ghost shrimp. The snail is only a temp. resident- he's for a friend's tank when it finishes cycling.

The 5 gallon tank is seeded from my bigger tank, and ammonia and nitrite are both at 0. But the betta is acting stressed- he keeps making loops across the back of the tank. One of the shrimp died within 24 hours (and the betta was not picking at them). The snail is open, but looks "wrong"- he's hanging open, half on his size. He is alive, though.

The tank has a large filter that I had to slow for the betta's benefit. I attached floss to where the water comes out to slow the flow...now I'm worried I slowed it TOO much. Because the filter isn't making a splash, could all of this be from low O2 levels?

I'm adding a bubble stone, but I just wanted opinions if I'm on the right or wrong track here. Could there be something else I'm missing if all the levels check out right? I used a rubberband to attach the floss- could there be chemicals in that that could affect the residents?

None of this sounds like low O2. Bettas can breathe air directly from the surface so would not be bothered. The apple snail has what is called a siphon for breathing air from the surface. If the 02 level was low, he'd be at the waterline with his siphon out of the water.

Copper in the tank/water might cause these sorts of symptoms in inverts (shrimp/snail), but would not effect the betta.

How did you seed the tank? My guess would be that seeding did not go well and you are experiencing a cycle...no idea why your test kit would read 0 for ammonia or nitrite but false 0s are not unheard of. What is your nitrate reading? PH? Temp?

Once you've obtained water for these tests, I would go ahead and do a large water change (50-75%), just to be sure.

 

[trianglekitty]

None of this sounds like low O2. Bettas can breathe air directly from the surface so would not be bothered. The apple snail has what is called a siphon for breathing air from the surface. If the 02 level was low, he'd be at the waterline with his siphon out of the water.

Copper in the tank/water might cause these sorts of symptoms in inverts (shrimp/snail), but would not effect the betta.

How did you seed the tank? My guess would be that seeding did not go well and you are experiencing a cycle...no idea why your test kit would read 0 for ammonia or nitrite but false 0s are not unheard of. What is your nitrate reading? PH? Temp?

Once you've obtained water for these tests, I would go ahead and do a large water change (50-75%), just to be sure.
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I used media and gravel from the bigger tank (fully cycled, mature tank) for the smaller one. The nitrate is reading at 0. PH is 7. Temp is 79. The test kit is the API master test, and it shows ammonia in the tap water, so I know the chemicals aren't just expired or anything.

I definately will do a water change though. Is there a way to test for copper?

Sorry, answering my own question- I have a API copper test kit- I would assume that would work.

 

[nosoup4you]

yup, the API copper test will do. Once you've collected your sample, go ahead and do a big water change.

 

[trianglekitty]

yup, the API copper test will do. Once you've collected your sample, go ahead and do a big water change.

The copper tested at 0. I did the water change, but I wonder if I just have really bad luck? The snail didn't look right when I got it home- I thought the shell was too thin, and looked like it hadn't grown right. So maybe I just got a sick snail, and one of the shrimp died from the stress of moving? And maybe the betta is just a little stressed from going from a cup to having space?

I'm just grasping at straws, because with all the water parameters checking out pretty much perfect, I just don't understand what's happening. The snail now looks like it "vomited"...I can't describe it well, but it has a clearish,foamy tissue coming out of its mouth area.

 

[nosoup4you]

yup, the API copper test will do. Once you've collected your sample, go ahead and do a big water change.

The copper tested at 0. I did the water change, but I wonder if I just have really bad luck? The snail didn't look right when I got it home- I thought the shell was too thin, and looked like it hadn't grown right. So maybe I just got a sick snail, and one of the shrimp died from the stress of moving? And maybe the betta is just a little stressed from going from a cup to having space?

I'm just grasping at straws, because with all the water parameters checking out pretty much perfect, I just don't understand what's happening. The snail now looks like it "vomited"...I can't describe it well, but it has a clearish,foamy tissue coming out of its mouth area.

It could just be bad luck, could be some sort of untestable contaminant, such as air freshener, that has gotten into the water. Keep an eye on the snail. A dead snail will foul the water almost quicker than anything. Take it out of the tank, touch its operculum (the "trapdoor"), if it does not suck back in, I'd get rid of it. Also, dead snails have a very distinct odor. You should have no real problems telling the difference.

 

[trianglekitty]

[/quote]

It could just be bad luck, could be some sort of untestable contaminant, such as air freshener, that has gotten into the water. Keep an eye on the snail. A dead snail will foul the water almost quicker than anything. Take it out of the tank, touch its operculum (the "trapdoor"), if it does not suck back in, I'd get rid of it. Also, dead snails have a very distinct odor. You should have no real problems telling the difference.
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Yeah, I've been doing that every few hours, and it does suck itself in, but that foamy tissue actually get trapped outside the operculum.

I still wonder if it could be the rubber band holding the floss to the filter. It's just a standard household rubber band. I never use chemicals in the house (I have a cat with serious asthma). I know others have used rubber bands for that purpose, but maybe it has some kind of coating on it? I'll see if I can get some clips at the pet store to replace it

 

[nosoup4you]

I still wonder if it could be the rubber band holding the floss to the filter. It's just a standard household rubber band. I never use chemicals in the house (I have a cat with serious asthma). I know others have used rubber bands for that purpose, but maybe it has some kind of coating on it? I'll see if I can get some clips at the pet store to replace it

I've used an old pair of pantyhose or thin stocking for this purpose. The pet shop might also sell filter bags, little mesh bags used for holding filter media.

 

[MBOU]

If its any help, i've given up trying to keep applesnails alive in the shop. There is just something wrong in the water that i cant correct on a large scale.

But i know its something to do with the tap water. My guess is still trace ammounts of heavy metals in the water (not necessarily copper) that wouldnt test on kits but is still there...

I would either change you dechlorinstor to one specificially for shrimps/inverts like JBLs Biotopol C.

Or change to using RO water, even if for a short while to see if it makes a difference.

Also test for KH and GH and maybe also calcium, a decent LFS can do this for you most of the time!

 

[trianglekitty]

If its any help, i've given up trying to keep applesnails alive in the shop. There is just something wrong in the water that i cant correct on a large scale.

But i know its something to do with the tap water. My guess is still trace ammounts of heavy metals in the water (not necessarily copper) that wouldnt test on kits but is still there...

I would either change you dechlorinstor to one specificially for shrimps/inverts like JBLs Biotopol C.

Or change to using RO water, even if for a short while to see if it makes a difference.

Also test for KH and GH and maybe also calcium, a decent LFS can do this for you most of the time!

That's interesting. The shop kept the snails in the back because the main water supply to the tanks had too much copper and it was killing them. So they had a seperate set up (which also meant I didn't get to pick my snail and see it moving). I wonder if our area just has bad water?

I'll look into the dechlorinator- I'd really like to be able to keep shrimp. The other ghost shrimp does look fine at this point, but the betta is still acting very stressed and hasn't stopped moving- that's the one thing that doesn't fit with it being some kind of mineral problem. I would expect the betta to be okay, since this is the same water that goes in the big tank and all the fish there are fine. He's eating, just constantly flying in a big loop across the tank.

Thank you both for trying to help solve this mystery!

 

[trianglekitty]

The snail actually looks much better today- he's moving about, and was hovering near where I dropped a sinking disc for him. The remaining shrimp is also still going. The betta hasn't improved though...still flying all around, though he did settle down and sleep in his "house" last night.

Sooo...maybe the water change was what did the trick? And maybe I've just got an abnormally active betta?

Thanks again for your help!