Trying to get a better handle on fish care

[BLK]

Hi, I'm new here and trying to get a better handle on fish care and how to hone in on causes of fish illness/death.

I have a newly cycled 30G tank, with well rated accessories (filter, heater, FS light with dimmer,...).
I feed my fish healthy pellets, frozen food (brine shrimp and daphnia) and a little flake food. I have an API test kit, that i use every few days. Started with seeded biofilter and 8 Danios, of which 3 perished: 2 within a couple days after buying, and 1 after 3 weeks which was more unexpected. At about week 4 from having my Danios and good parameters - 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20 Nitrate -, as well as having been told by my LFS that my tank was cycled, I bought 2 Pearl Gouramis. I've had them about 3 weeks now, and from what I can tell, they are seemingly healthy - although the male, Rocket, spends more time hiding out, especially during the few hours when my lights are on medium brightness. I'm going to buy Frogbit soon, which should give the pair a shaded and protective environment at the upper region of the tank.
Last weekend I bought 3 beautiful Celebes Rainbows and added 2 more a couple days later. 2 days after, I did a 25% water change (Nitrates were at 20). In total i spent about hour changing water, rearranging the tank and adding a couple Anubius plants. During this time the rainbows seemed stressed and jetted about in the corner of the tank in "escape" mode. The following day, one of the rainbows died. I was surprised and disappointed, however i starting to question where I went wrong and am guessing that the water change disrupted his/her adaptation process that was still in progress (from LFS to my tank), making it really tough to adapt again after my water change. The stress they felt when i rearranged the tank also probably didn't help matters
Do folks here think these factors could have been the cause? Are there other parameters I should be paying attention to? I've seen references here to dGH, but my LFS downplays this. btw, I did test the pH and noticed it has gone down from 8 to 7.2ish. What causes this and is it normal/safe? Thank you folks for any advice you can offer.

 

[NannaLou]

I’m quite new and can’t answer your questions, but will throw a few comments into the mix. The “hardness” of the water is very important to fish, I now buy RO water to reduce this to make it safe for my Betta.

Do all of the fish you have need the same type of water? https://seriouslyfish.com/ have very good details on water needs, tank sizes, compatibility etc. Always a good place to start and then double check here with the experts

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Welcome and, sadly, you've been learning the hard way.
I suspect your tank may have not been as 'cycled' as you thought and you added fish too soon, hence the deaths.
The word 'cycled' is often heard in fishkeeping and there's an implication that when a tank is 'cycled', all is done and dusted and you can carry on and add fish to your heart's content...and tank's capacity.
The reality is that cycling is a continuous process and when we say 'cycled', we mean that the tank's beneficial bacteria is at a stage where it can manage fish waste. Of course, adding a few fish will be fine at this stage, but too many and the BB can be overwhelmed and you face a possibility of a collapse of your carefully cultivated cycle.

You also need to know that too many lfs staff really haven't a clue as to what they're talking about, so it's always worth getting at least second opinions. Alternatively, you could check the actual knowledge of the staff. Many lfs do have very knowledgeable staff.

The ideal is to set up tank up completely, with plants, before adding fish. Time and time again I find that messing about with decor and planting results in possibly stressful (and sometimes fatal) times for the resident fish. For sure, you can replace plants and do all sorts with the tank, later on...when everything is settled.

Assuming you have a decent test kit, (liquids, not strips), you should try to get into the habit of testing your water on a regular basis. That way, you get a 'feel' for it and can pick things going out of kilter, long before they become a serious problem. You should keep an eye on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, as they have the capacity to change at a moment's notice.
As @NannaLou says, it helps to be aware of your water pH and hardness. This way, you can select fish to match the water, rather than vice versa. If you try to match the water to the fish, it'll rarely end well and you'll have to be constantly changing water with every water change.

@NannaLou 's recommendation of Seriously Fish is also a great one.

 

[Avel1896]

Hey
Fish care starts with the respect of the life conditions fishes require, being : water parameters, temp., school/shoal behavior or on its own (alone) behavior, swimming style, swimming area, feeding preferences, etc etc.
You'll have to test your tap/source water to know to what fish it is suitable.
Fish care goes on by never listening to what LPS/LFS say : they are only sellers, their order is to sell you something.
That means lots of research before any fish purchase.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

By the way...at the risk of being picky, is this going to be a Journal?

 

[Avel1896]

It's up to OP, would be nice

 

[Essjay]

By the way...at the risk of being picky, is this going to be a Journal?

I've moved the thread out of the Journal section as it's not a journal. If a journal is intended later, a new thread can be started in that section.

 

[BLK]

I’m quite new and can’t answer your questions, but will throw a few comments into the mix. The “hardness” of the water is very important to fish, I now buy RO water to reduce this to make it safe for my Betta.

Do all of the fish you have need the same type of water? https://seriouslyfish.com/ have very good details on water needs, tank sizes, compatibility etc. Always a good place to start and then double check here with the experts

Thanks for the suggestions! I will look into these things more. Hope all is well with your betta.

 

[NannaLou]

Very sadly, as someone who knew nothing of cycling or water conditions/parameters and started off with only the advice from the lfs I lost two beautiful fish before finding this forum. Off on the most amazing learning curve, supported by the fantastic members of this site and I now have a very healthy and from his behaviour happy Betta. (well not happy because I was advised of a suitable feeding regime- and he doesn’t get fed every time he ‘dances’ at the front of the tank)

 

[Byron]

Water parameters--which are GH, KH, pH and temperature--need to be known before you acquire fish, so have a look at your municipal water authority's website, or call them, for the GH and pH especially, and KH also helps. Temperature obviously you control, but the fish in the tank must have a reasonably similar requirement for this too.

You may have pending issues from the selection of fish. Some fish are active (danios, depending which species) and some the opposite, and the two do not go well together. What species are the danios?

 

[BLK]

Water parameters--which are GH, KH, pH and temperature--need to be known before you acquire fish, so have a look at your municipal water authority's website, or call them, for the GH and pH especially, and KH also helps. Temperature obviously you control, but the fish in the tank must have a reasonably similar requirement for this too.

You may have pending issues from the selection of fish. Some fish are active (danios, depending which species) and some the opposite, and the two do not go well together. What species are the danios?

Thank you everyone. Great and helpful information here.
Lesson one: Unfortunately, I did not check my water hardness before acquiring fish. Focused instead on behavior compatibility but as of yesterday have discovered the fish in my tank require/prefer different water hardnesses. Thanks Essjay for your earlier post regarding this I have a couple more questions at the bottom.

I'm copying this info from my Nearly New... post to here. Probably a better place to continue the conversation.

My info:

30 Gallons
2 Anubius plants and 1 small water sprite
Tank has gone through an initial cycle - I seeded it and added my fish of interest 4 weeks later when tank read cycled
Sea Chem Tidal 55 Filter
78-79 dgrees

I used API liquid tests for the following

pH: 8.2
GH: 12, 200ppm
KH: 7, 120 ppm
Ammonia - canary yellow - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 20 when i look through test tube.
Last Water changes - 8/30 25% water change
Livestock:
2 Zebra Danios
3 Zebra Glolight Danios
2 Pearl Gouramis
4 Celebes Rainbow.

~Can I "create" a happy GH medium to avoid rehoming any of my current fish by adding a set amount (TBdiscovered upon more research) of RO to my water changes?
~If not, at this point I'm drawn to fish that prefer softer water (gouramis, danios, tetras,... they also seem to be available in a higher abundance), but is matching my water to my fish worth the effort? I noticed Bruce discouraged this.
~If so, any suggestions of how to proceed much appreciated. We drink RO and usually have an ample supply.

Some fish are active (danios, depending which species) and some the opposite, and the two do not go well together. What species are the danios?

Hi Bryon, I believe all my danios are zebras (they have stripes). But 3 of them are reddish and 2 more brownish. My Pearl gouramis venture peacefully throughout the tank paying little attention to them, even though they are of a more mellow disposition.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

...but is matching my water to my fish worth the effort? I noticed Bruce discouraged this.

I did, the reasons being...
With modern chemistry and a plethora of different medicines, tonics, conditioners and reagents, we can do wonders with the water we get out of our taps.
Generally, much of this can be described as 'Bucket Chemistry', where really precise measurements are not needed. This is largely facilitated by the volume of our tanks.

However, if you chemically alter the characteristics of your water, then you are committing yourself to repeating that exercise with every water change.
If you add unaltered water to your tank, sooner or later, you're going to have to play Chemist once more to re-adjust it.
If you alter the water you're about to add with a water change, playing Chemist in the bucket, then you're talking about a smaller volume to play with and some care would be needed.

Some aquarists love this aspect of the hobby and spend as much time tinkering with the water chemistry as they do maintaining their tanks, all of which takes time away from simply sitting and watching. I remember some keepers of the Discus and they would spend ages getting the water just right and they soon learned that they needed to do it in quantity. As a consequence, they had complicated sumps and all sorts of strange (to me) paraphernalia.

Personally, whilst I know it's possible and that I could do it, I just can't be bothered.
You makes your choice...

 

[Avel1896]

Focused instead on behavior compatibility

Betta - aka Siamese fighting fish - is a solitary fish that thrive well only if alone.
Being a territorial fish you may encounter fights with pearl gouramis that are also territorial.

pH: 8.2

Very bad : your live stock is made of soft acidic water fishes.

GH: 12, 200ppm
KH: 7, 120 ppm

Bad and not good for reasons touched above.

Nitrates - 20

Too high. Has to be below 5.

You need RO water or distilled water to soften pH GH KH.