Trouble In My Tank

[Ehudd]

Hi i am new here
Anyways i have a 55gal.
I have 2 major problem.
1. i have 5 blue cromis and 2 clowns, u prob think thats a low number of fish for a 1 year old tank. Well every single time i have added a new fish, it has died within 48 hours of purchase. All dying to white spot! The last fish of mine to die was a Junvi Moorish Idol, yes yes heard it all they r hard to keep, it actually came from my friends tank, he had kept it for 4 months. Well he died to white spot so i decided not to add ne more fish for around 2 months. Well then i added a Scopas Tang, he was alright for 2 days, then 1 day he got it in the morning, i come home from work and its all gone. It repeated like this for around 1 week untill it actually just got over whelmed and died. I really dont know what i am doing wrong here! 1 year and still cannot add a single fish because of white spot!! none of my other fish get it, just new ones.
2. I also have a high nitrate and high phos problem. Both of which dont seem to affect anything cept for my calcium! which is really annoying. My coral and fish seem to be thriving. I have used many products and still nothing. I have added small power heads in between LR and where ever there may be a dead spot. Still no results. I have been doing 30% water changed weekly for the past month, still nothing.

This afternoon i am down grading into a standard 3 foot, not keeping any fish just my corals and Inverts. I have found smaller tanks to be alot more successful for me.
Just for basic Info my tank is turning over around 20 times an hour. I have 1 Compact Fluro and 2 two foot Double Fluro's. 20 KG LR, Substrate is not very thick (which may be a bad thing?).
Please help me out here, its driving me nuts! Oh and for inverts I have 2 red line cleaner shrimp and 2 coral banded. I have had both pairs of shrimp for 2 years now.

 

[ikon]

1) are you acclimating the new fish you introduce to your tank properly? you didnt mention anything about that, and not acclimating a fish from one tank parameter to the next could explain the ick and eventual death.

 

[barker_23]

Hi,

By what you have mentioned i would say that your tank is too small. The scopas tang requires a min tank size of 70 gallons, and the moorish idol a 125 gallon tank.

I would go with the smaller tank and stick with the fish you have.

Hope this helps

Rich

 

[tmreynolds]

When you say high nitrate, how high?

Try and post your full tank levels, ie sg, ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, alkalinity, temp etc.

Have you tried rowaphos for phosphates? I've used it from day 1 and have never even had trace phosphates. Never heard a bad word against it

 

[Ehudd]

I do consider what you are saying.
I use the drip method for the water in my tank to ajust with the one in the bag, this taking around half an hour.
Also, i know these fish grow to big for the tank... I have a 140gal. They were just in there to grow untill big enough to go in with the other large fish. Also being Junvi, at such a small size i dont think the water volume would have effected them, seeing they were both around the 2" mark. If my fish was full grown in that tank i would totally agree with the stress therefore getting white spot. But at a small size i dont think that would be the case, thank u ne ways.
Some products i do not get where i live

Please do not think because i am new here i do not know basics been keeping fish for 5 years now, just cant get my head around this problem, none of my other tanks suffer but this one.

When you say high nitrate, how high?

Try and post your full tank levels, ie sg, ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, alkalinity, temp etc.

Have you tried rowaphos for phosphates? I've used it from day 1 and have never even had trace phosphates. Never heard a bad word against it

sorry did not read this. Well out of these my Nitrates and Phosphates are high. Nitrate around 80ppm Phosphate 10ppm, its gone down

 

[RoyalGrammaPrincessHannah]

First of all, you should have a quarantine tank. But also are you checking on the fish well before you bring them home? It may be the lfs, not you with the problem. Fish who are stressed [changing homes]are more susceptible to a parasites, unlike your other fish who may just be healthy enough to fight it off. When you get a new fish, add Paraguard or some kind of ich treatment. Or better yet, just treat the tank right now with ich treatment for the recommended amount of time before buying any more fish.

 

[tmreynolds]

I do consider what you are saying.
I use the drip method for the water in my tank to ajust with the one in the bag, this taking around half an hour.
Also, i know these fish grow to big for the tank... I have a 140gal. They were just in there to grow untill big enough to go in with the other large fish. Also being Junvi, at such a small size i dont think the water volume would have effected them, seeing they were both around the 2" mark. If my fish was full grown in that tank i would totally agree with the stress therefore getting white spot. But at a small size i dont think that would be the case, thank u ne ways.
Some products i do not get where i live

Please do not think because i am new here i do not know basics been keeping fish for 5 years now, just cant get my head around this problem, none of my other tanks suffer but this one.

When you say high nitrate, how high?

Try and post your full tank levels, ie sg, ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, alkalinity, temp etc.

Have you tried rowaphos for phosphates? I've used it from day 1 and have never even had trace phosphates. Never heard a bad word against it

sorry did not read this. Well out of these my Nitrates and Phosphates are high. Nitrate around 80ppm Phosphate 10ppm, its gone down

Both these figures are high.

You really need to look at getting a phosphate binder, rowaphos I'd recommend.

Your nitrates are very high too.

a)
If your ammonia is 0 and nitrites too (please specify) then you may be struggling with the final part of the nitrogen cycle which converts nitrates to nitrogen (correct me if I'm wrong). Your LR amount seems on the low side for 55 gallons (you need neraer 30kg's for 55gallons). The kind of bacteria used for getting nitrates down lives deep in the LR, and you also need movement at the water surface, I believe, to enable gaseous exchange.

b.)
Or, If you doing 30% water changes and your nitrates are not going down and your ammonia and nitrite are 0, your nitrate test kit may be giving a faulty reading. Maybe have it verified at your LFS?

c)
Are you using RO/DI water for your water changes? I'd test the fresh water going in for nitrates too.

d)
You have a high bio-load or some filter media/detritus build up somewhere which is housing the nitrates.

These things spring to mind initially.

 

[Navarre]

Your nutrient readings are high. How much liverock do you have in the system? Also is there any mechanical filtration? Because your nutrients are so high i am trying to find outif you are feeding to high or whether there is mechanical filtration dumping high nutrients into the system. Or perhaps the water you use is not RO and is placing hi nutrients into the system.

I think there are a number of cators concerning your fish rather than 1 specific reason...

Moorish idols as you know are very poor on survival so if anything is slightly wrong withthe system then they are the most delicate.. hi nutrients alone could bring on stress and anonslaught of whitespot.

Tangs are well known whitespot magnet as they are easily stressed. The very fact that the tang is in a new tank among very active fish which might intimidate it along with high nutrients will only weaken it and again bring on an attack of whitespot.

You other fish wont show signs of whitespot because they are now completely adjusted totheir tanks environments and thus theyhave muchlower stress levels.
I would be more concerned with reducing the nutrient levels and gettingthe water backto A1 quality. We are after all water mangers... If the water is in good condition the fish usually take care of themselves.

As you have got a whitespot problem then i urge you to invest in a UV filter or anozone unit.. or even both. Feed with a garlic suppliment every day and this will help reduce whitespot outbreaks significantly

 

[SkiFletch]

Nav, ya beat me to it . Great advice there. Last thing I would urge you to do though is to have your testing verified by your LFS. Its possible that either your testing methods or your testkit itself are less than accurate. Remember, even the "best" testkits out there are not the ideal way to test for what we're testing for. There is a lot of opportunity for error so always get a second oppinion

 

[Ehudd]

First of all, you should have a quarantine tank. But also are you checking on the fish well before you bring them home? It may be the lfs, not you with the problem. Fish who are stressed [changing homes]are more susceptible to a parasites, unlike your other fish who may just be healthy enough to fight it off. When you get a new fish, add Paraguard or some kind of ich treatment. Or better yet, just treat the tank right now with ich treatment for the recommended amount of time before buying any more fish.

Everytime i buy a fish i make them feed it to look if it is swimming good and feeding good. Quarantine is a good idea, althought i dont see the point when it is obviously my tank, its just like him coming from a tank to the LFS to mine. They quaratine for 1 month because they r all imported.

I do consider what you are saying.
I use the drip method for the water in my tank to ajust with the one in the bag, this taking around half an hour.
Also, i know these fish grow to big for the tank... I have a 140gal. They were just in there to grow untill big enough to go in with the other large fish. Also being Junvi, at such a small size i dont think the water volume would have effected them, seeing they were both around the 2" mark. If my fish was full grown in that tank i would totally agree with the stress therefore getting white spot. But at a small size i dont think that would be the case, thank u ne ways.
Some products i do not get where i live

Please do not think because i am new here i do not know basics been keeping fish for 5 years now, just cant get my head around this problem, none of my other tanks suffer but this one.

When you say high nitrate, how high?

Try and post your full tank levels, ie sg, ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, alkalinity, temp etc.

Have you tried rowaphos for phosphates? I've used it from day 1 and have never even had trace phosphates. Never heard a bad word against it

sorry did not read this. Well out of these my Nitrates and Phosphates are high. Nitrate around 80ppm Phosphate 10ppm, its gone down

Both these figures are high.

You really need to look at getting a phosphate binder, rowaphos I'd recommend.

Your nitrates are very high too.

a)
If your ammonia is 0 and nitrites too (please specify) then you may be struggling with the final part of the nitrogen cycle which converts nitrates to nitrogen (correct me if I'm wrong). Your LR amount seems on the low side for 55 gallons (you need neraer 30kg's for 55gallons). The kind of bacteria used for getting nitrates down lives deep in the LR, and you also need movement at the water surface, I believe, to enable gaseous exchange.

b.)
Or, If you doing 30% water changes and your nitrates are not going down and your ammonia and nitrite are 0, your nitrate test kit may be giving a faulty reading. Maybe have it verified at your LFS?

c)
Are you using RO/DI water for your water changes? I'd test the fresh water going in for nitrates too.

d)
You have a high bio-load or some filter media/detritus build up somewhere which is housing the nitrates.

These things spring to mind initially.

My amminia and nitrite are one nill. my water changes come from the ocean. apparently these guys put a pump way out deep or something, a method that i wont be doing anymore because i tested there water and it was shocking. All my test come from the LFS and my test were reading the same.

Your nutrient readings are high. How much liverock do you have in the system? Also is there any mechanical filtration? Because your nutrients are so high i am trying to find outif you are feeding to high or whether there is mechanical filtration dumping high nutrients into the system. Or perhaps the water you use is not RO and is placing hi nutrients into the system.

I think there are a number of cators concerning your fish rather than 1 specific reason...

Moorish idols as you know are very poor on survival so if anything is slightly wrong withthe system then they are the most delicate.. hi nutrients alone could bring on stress and anonslaught of whitespot.

Tangs are well known whitespot magnet as they are easily stressed. The very fact that the tang is in a new tank among very active fish which might intimidate it along with high nutrients will only weaken it and again bring on an attack of whitespot.

You other fish wont show signs of whitespot because they are now completely adjusted totheir tanks environments and thus theyhave muchlower stress levels.
I would be more concerned with reducing the nutrient levels and gettingthe water backto A1 quality. We are after all water mangers... If the water is in good condition the fish usually take care of themselves.

As you have got a whitespot problem then i urge you to invest in a UV filter or anozone unit.. or even both. Feed with a garlic suppliment every day and this will help reduce whitespot outbreaks significantly

It was just not an idol and a tang. I have had numerous angels, gobies man i even lost a damsel to it lol. I am not to keen on the UV filter, what about free swimming bacteria? Phytoplankton and so forth. I add procducts to increase the amount of this. But if thats what it took maybe i should look into it. Does Spectrum have Garlic in it? cause that is their initiall diet, with frozen brine.

 

[meso81]

Also Be carefull On where you purchase your fish. Ive been in my local petsmart and wanted to vomit when looking into there tanks, The small time family owned places do well for me, or even saltwaterfish.com has giving me some awesome fish.

 

[tmreynolds]

First of all, you should have a quarantine tank. But also are you checking on the fish well before you bring them home? It may be the lfs, not you with the problem. Fish who are stressed [changing homes]are more susceptible to a parasites, unlike your other fish who may just be healthy enough to fight it off. When you get a new fish, add Paraguard or some kind of ich treatment. Or better yet, just treat the tank right now with ich treatment for the recommended amount of time before buying any more fish.

Everytime i buy a fish i make them feed it to look if it is swimming good and feeding good. Quarantine is a good idea, althought i dont see the point when it is obviously my tank, its just like him coming from a tank to the LFS to mine. They quaratine for 1 month because they r all imported.

I do consider what you are saying.
I use the drip method for the water in my tank to ajust with the one in the bag, this taking around half an hour.
Also, i know these fish grow to big for the tank... I have a 140gal. They were just in there to grow untill big enough to go in with the other large fish. Also being Junvi, at such a small size i dont think the water volume would have effected them, seeing they were both around the 2" mark. If my fish was full grown in that tank i would totally agree with the stress therefore getting white spot. But at a small size i dont think that would be the case, thank u ne ways.
Some products i do not get where i live

Please do not think because i am new here i do not know basics been keeping fish for 5 years now, just cant get my head around this problem, none of my other tanks suffer but this one.

When you say high nitrate, how high?

Try and post your full tank levels, ie sg, ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, alkalinity, temp etc.

Have you tried rowaphos for phosphates? I've used it from day 1 and have never even had trace phosphates. Never heard a bad word against it

sorry did not read this. Well out of these my Nitrates and Phosphates are high. Nitrate around 80ppm Phosphate 10ppm, its gone down

Both these figures are high.

You really need to look at getting a phosphate binder, rowaphos I'd recommend.

Your nitrates are very high too.

a)
If your ammonia is 0 and nitrites too (please specify) then you may be struggling with the final part of the nitrogen cycle which converts nitrates to nitrogen (correct me if I'm wrong). Your LR amount seems on the low side for 55 gallons (you need neraer 30kg's for 55gallons). The kind of bacteria used for getting nitrates down lives deep in the LR, and you also need movement at the water surface, I believe, to enable gaseous exchange.

b.)
Or, If you doing 30% water changes and your nitrates are not going down and your ammonia and nitrite are 0, your nitrate test kit may be giving a faulty reading. Maybe have it verified at your LFS?

c)
Are you using RO/DI water for your water changes? I'd test the fresh water going in for nitrates too.

d)
You have a high bio-load or some filter media/detritus build up somewhere which is housing the nitrates.

These things spring to mind initially.

My amminia and nitrite are one nill. my water changes come from the ocean. apparently these guys put a pump way out deep or something, a method that i wont be doing anymore because i tested there water and it was shocking. All my test come from the LFS and my test were reading the same.

Your nutrient readings are high. How much liverock do you have in the system? Also is there any mechanical filtration? Because your nutrients are so high i am trying to find outif you are feeding to high or whether there is mechanical filtration dumping high nutrients into the system. Or perhaps the water you use is not RO and is placing hi nutrients into the system.

I think there are a number of cators concerning your fish rather than 1 specific reason...

Moorish idols as you know are very poor on survival so if anything is slightly wrong withthe system then they are the most delicate.. hi nutrients alone could bring on stress and anonslaught of whitespot.

Tangs are well known whitespot magnet as they are easily stressed. The very fact that the tang is in a new tank among very active fish which might intimidate it along with high nutrients will only weaken it and again bring on an attack of whitespot.

You other fish wont show signs of whitespot because they are now completely adjusted totheir tanks environments and thus theyhave muchlower stress levels.
I would be more concerned with reducing the nutrient levels and gettingthe water backto A1 quality. We are after all water mangers... If the water is in good condition the fish usually take care of themselves.

As you have got a whitespot problem then i urge you to invest in a UV filter or anozone unit.. or even both. Feed with a garlic suppliment every day and this will help reduce whitespot outbreaks significantly

It was just not an idol and a tang. I have had numerous angels, gobies man i even lost a damsel to it lol. I am not to keen on the UV filter, what about free swimming bacteria? Phytoplankton and so forth. I add procducts to increase the amount of this. But if thats what it took maybe i should look into it. Does Spectrum have Garlic in it? cause that is their initiall diet, with frozen brine.

one nill?

Is that 1 for ammonia and nil for nitrite?

Have you tested the water you do changes with for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate before it goes in?

What else are you adding to the water?