Tried too many things, now I'm not sure what to do

ftbetta

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So I've had a stable 10G tank for several years, with no major issues lately. We have three corys and three mollys (not great numbers, but we were trying to switch from one to the other... anyhow) The past few months everything had looked absolutely great, doing weekly water changes, clear water, healthy fish. A few weeks ago I noticed that one of the 3 mollys was looking a little raggid on his fins. I put in some stress-zyme in the tank for two weeks and nothing got better. I thought maybe he was getting picked on by the other two more dominant fish and the tank was getting too crowded as the fish were getting bigger and I was going to have to find somewhere to take the mollys. I worried that maybe my water conditionditioner / dechlorinator was getting a bit old (it didn't expire for 9 more months, but I've had it a while) so I bought another bottle of that. The one molly still wasn't looking great, did some research and saw that their lifespan was listed as 2-5 years. We have had this one for over three, and it was full size when we got it, so I kinda settled with he must just be nearing the end of his days. I bought an extra silk plant to make sure he had quiet places to hide and rest, and even a floating betta logs that I would sometimes see him in. He still wasn't acting normal, and I would see him resting on plant leaves or on the bottom, but kept regular tank care and just observed and watched the other fish closely (they all looked just fine), but I thought he was just dying of old age.

About a week ago I noticed that some of his scales started to do the pinecone thing. I looked it up and found that can be a sign of a bacterial infection, but again just thought older dying fish are probably more susceptible to normal bacteria that is always around. (I feel like this is where I should have seen more flags). I anxiously watched and everyone else looked and acted fine, no strange behavior from anyone, everyone was eating (even the sick one), everyone elses scales, gills, fins, all looked fine.

The day before he passed away and was really struggling, I noticed that one of the other mollys, who normally has her fins like out and proud looking, was holding them against her sides and drooping a bit. Now my alarms started going off, and I ordered some pimafix and melafix to add in just so if it was something it didn't spread.

The next day (call this Day 1) the first molly died and I scooped him out of the tank within a few hours. I did a 25% water change, ammonia was zero, but the second molly still didn't look great, and had started resting on the bottom. Despite rush shipping, the med solutions weren't here yet, and I can't run to the store because we are still on covid lockdown. The anti fungal treatment came late in the evening and I put that in right before I went to bed. I read the instructions and it talked about taking the charcoal filter out (my filter has charcoal inside two layers of the filtery material, so I just took the whole cartridge out, but left the filter running for aeration.

Day 2 - the anti-bacterial solution (can't remember which one is pima and which one is mela) came in the morning, and I put it in the tank. I added the second dose of the anti-fungal solution later that afternoon. The water was looking really gross and cloudy, but I figured I stirred up some stuff when I had to get the other fish out. He of course died and like fell deep into the middle of one of the plants, so I had to uproot it shake it upside down - and I have sand for the corys, not gravel, so it stirred things up a bit, the filter would normally c;lear that kind of stuff out, but since I had taken the cartridge out, I just figured it would take a while to all settle back down.

Day 3 - the second molly is dead in the morning. I scoop her out right away, and put in the third doses of each the pima and melafix's. I didn't do a water change because the directions on the bottle say dose for seven days then do a 25% water change, so I was going to wait. The water just looks downright gross and cloudy, there is a light fuzzy film showing up all over everything, its gross. I took the filter cartridge apart and dumped out the charcoal bits, but put the fuzzy filter part back in, hoping to get some of it out. It's been going like that for a few hours, but that's where we are now.

I know the bottle says some clouding of the water in saltwater tanks is normal, but it doesn't say anything about that in freshwater tanks, is that normal? Just now I was checking on all the other fish. Which we have now 1 molly (who was born in our tank about a year ago, so much younger than the other two, I don't want to leave him alone in the tank, so I will have to figure out what to do with him, but that's for another thread) and 3 cory cats. The mini molly looks great, fins out and proud looking, full and healthy, but I just noticed one of the catfish like flipping around rubbing his side down against the sand. Close inspection everything on him looks ok right now, but I know this is NOT a good sign.

One concern I do have is back when I set the tank up with sand, I noticed that there were some darker blackish or greenish spots that formed in the lower layers, and I would only notice them when I stirred things up like aqua scaping. I believe I was told in here that it was just a harmless anerobic bacteria and not to worry about it unless it was too unslightly for me. (doesn't bother me, looks natural as far as I'm concerned) but I don't ever like stir up the sand real deep to the bottom like I did in the beginning. I vacuum the top layer as necessary, but honestly I feed them appropriately, and there isn't much of anything that ever really collects on the bottom at all. I only vacuum that maybe one a year more for the parts of plants and decorations that have flaked odd. Just water changes keeps everything looking fresh, so I never thought to worry about it. So is it possible that I have some nasty bacteria thing going on under all the sand?

Help please, I have no idea what to do next, I really don't want to lose my whole tank to whatever the heck is going on.

Thanks for anyone who took the time to read this all, I am really quite attached to my cory's :'-(
 
Hi, I'm sorry you're going through all this. I'm far from an expert in disease either, so I'll just try to help you get the fish through the next day or so while we find someone like @Byron who knows a lot about a lot of stuff.


Firstly, do a large water change. 75-80% of the total water volume. Melafix and primafix are not good for cories, and it's very possibly the meds that your cory is reacting to. We want to remove as much of the medication from the water as we can. I also suspect that your nitrogen cycle may have crashed as a result of the meds/filter media removal, so a large water change is urgent to make sure your ammonia and nitrites are at zero. Wipe down the sides of the glass, and vacuum the sand as well as you can, without stirring it up, not at this point. Just remove as much of the surface debris as you can.


Once you've done the water change, then please come back and answer a few questions so we can try to pinpoint what might have caused the initial problem, and what steps to take next. Do you have a water testing kit or dip strips to test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate?
 
I'm sorry, I know it's a lot of questions, but we can't be there to see the tank and the fish, or test the water, so really need to rely on whatever details you can provide in order to try to help. I know some of these you've covered in your opening post, but it's useful to have all the info together like this too so nothing important gets missed.

In addition to these, I'd also like to ask what you did with the filter media while it was out of the filter. Did it dry out completely before you returned it to the filter?

I can't say whether something nasty is lurking in the sand, but if anaerobic pockets is the concern, something would have had to stir the sand for those pockets to then affect the fish, and I believe it would cause a sudden death - not a slow decline followed by what sounds like dropsy. I may be wrong about that though, and it also doesn't mean that something else couldn't be lurking. Hence not to disturb the sand too much while you do the large clean and water change, to be on the safe side until someone more knowledgeable can chime in on the sand thing.
Photos of the tank, sand and fish would be useful if possible.
Tank size:
pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:
kH:
gH:
tank temp:

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants:

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

Exposure to chemicals:

Digital photo (include if possible):
 
About a week ago I noticed that some of his scales started to do the pinecone thing. I looked it up and found that can be a sign of a bacterial infection

This is what am a little concerned about, pineconing is one symptom of dropsy, I am a little wary in saying it is dropsy as I am no fish Doctor / vet at all whatsoever.

There is very little one can do when dropsy occurs in the tank, quarantine and salt treatments seems to be the most common method of treatment but alas most fail and the fish tend to pass away.

A little more information on dropsy, scroll down until you see dropsy -


And also as mentioned already, the fact you took out some filter media from your filter may have caused a small crash or mini cycle does not help, can’t confirm this really until you say whether you took out all the filter media or just some of it.

Chances are it’s likely to be a mini cycle as BB is found all over the tank surfaces and plants etc so the BB will spread fairly quickly.

Keep a close eye on water parameters, soon as you see any nitrite or ammonia, do a water change, at least 50%.

If you can answer Adorabelle’s questions, this will help us have a better picture of what is happening.

Sorry for the losses of your mollies :(
 
I agree on everything above. Great info! Do you know what your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings are? These are important and could be the issue. Take a sample of aquarium water to your fish store to be tested if you don’t have a test kit. Do the the large water change. See if any improvement in fish. You May very well have some cycling issues. If possible, buy a API Freshwater Test Kit. It is essential in keeping a healthy tank. Let us know the results. The Dropsy may indicate that you have a bacterial infection going on. We’ll deal with meds for that after we see how fish act after the water change.
 
By the way, your profile doesn’t indicate where you are from. Are you in the U.S.? This will help determine what meds are available to you.
 
Dropsy is not an illness itself but a symptom of an underlying disease. Treating dropsy depends on being able to find out what the underlying disease is.
Dropsy occurs when the underlying disease causes kidney failure and the fish cannot remove water from its body so it swells up.


Melafix and Pimafix are very mild medications, just cajeput oil (melafix) and bay oil (pimafix); many people don't regard those as medications at all.
 
Dropsy is not an illness itself but a symptom of an underlying disease. Treating dropsy depends on being able to find out what the underlying disease is.
Dropsy occurs when the underlying disease causes kidney failure and the fish cannot remove water from its body so it swells up.


Melafix and Pimafix are very mild medications, just cajeput oil (melafix) and bay oil (pimafix); many people don't regard those as medications at all.
I agree, it is not a disease in itself. If there are no physical signs and water conditions are good, the cause of dropsy Is usually bacterial. We need the water parameters to help determine. :)
 
Hi, I'm sorry you're going through all this. I'm far from an expert in disease either, so I'll just try to help you get the fish through the next day or so while we find someone like @Byron who knows a lot about a lot of stuff.


Firstly, do a large water change. 75-80% of the total water volume. Melafix and primafix are not good for cories, and it's very possibly the meds that your cory is reacting to. We want to remove as much of the medication from the water as we can. I also suspect that your nitrogen cycle may have crashed as a result of the meds/filter media removal, so a large water change is urgent to make sure your ammonia and nitrites are at zero. Wipe down the sides of the glass, and vacuum the sand as well as you can, without stirring it up, not at this point. Just remove as much of the surface debris as you can.


Once you've done the water change, then please come back and answer a few questions so we can try to pinpoint what might have caused the initial problem, and what steps to take next. Do you have a water testing kit or dip strips to test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate?


I have ammonia strips, but not the ones with nitrates and ph and such because i ran out since the pandemic and havent gotten more. I'll do the water change here in a bit
 
By the way, your profile doesn’t indicate where you are from. Are you in the U.S.? This will help determine what meds are available to you.
edit to remove emoji that showed up.. ?

Yes I am in the midwest, Franklin county ohio, so we are a covid "hotspot" and still have a lot of restrictions on where we can go and what we can do. Plus my family has high risk conditions so we have to be extra cautious about going out at all and making this more complicated as I can order things from amazon, but it is still 2 day shipping....
 
And also as mentioned already, the fact you took out some filter media from your filter may have caused a small crash or mini cycle does not help, can’t confirm this really until you say whether you took out all the filter media or just some of it.


This is the brand of filter I have
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084QK8XXQ/?tag=ff0d01-20

There are two layers of a like, poly fiberfil type material, and then there are charcoal bits sealed in between the two layers. What I did was on the back of it (the side where the water goes into the filter, so that nothing would be flowing into the tank at all) I cut a small hole in one of the layers of the what fiberfill layers, and emptied out all the charcoal bits, then put the fiberfil layers back in to just remove the physical bits in the water.

Putting it back in has helped some with the water clarity.

The filter cartridge partially dried around the edges, but the middle section of it was still very wet. I did rinse the filter in tap water though (whoops! but I was desperate to help clear things up) and then put a few more drops of dechlorinator in the tank. wasn't thinking about the nitrogen cycle at all!!)
 
edit to remove emoji that showed up.. ?

Yes I am in the midwest, Franklin county ohio, so we are a covid "hotspot" and still have a lot of restrictions on where we can go and what we can do. Plus my family has high risk conditions so we have to be extra cautious about going out at all and making this more complicated as I can order things from amazon, but it is still 2 day shipping....
I have a different outlook on the use of meds. I keep a fish first aid kit. At the top of my list is Seachem Kanaplex and API Furan 2. Kanaplex is an antibiotic and Furan-2 fights bacterial infections. You can order these from Amazon and they keep for a couple of years. I also keep API General Cure and Methylene Blue, Epsom salt, and aquarium salt in my kit. I have others but these are the basics. I’m always prepared if a fish gets sick. Note: I always try water changes and check parameters before deciding if I should pull out the emergency kit. In most cases a big water change and possibly aquarium salt will do the trick. Meds are my last line of defense but I’m ready if they are needed.
 
I can order some more test strips (that have the other stuff besides ammonia on them, because I do have ammonia only strips) I will test that in just a bit and post results. But when I did the last big water change ammonia was at 0 before the change.

For the other test strips should I get the regular 5-1 strips?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHOAIY/?tag=ff0d01-20

or do I need the 9-1 strip
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TF1WKXZ/?tag=ff0d01-20

Or are there other ones on amazon I should look at? I say amazon because leaving our house at the moment isn't really an option, and so their shipping is faster than most other places (and free for us)
 

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