Treating Ich In A Tank With Scaleless Fish

[m1lky12]

I've just fed my fish and while observing them I noticed that a couple of my Rummynose Tetras had a couple of white spots on them. There's nothing in terms of behavior that worries me as they're all still shoaling and eating whilst colored up and today was the first I saw anything wrong so I'm guessing they'll be in the early stages of the illness. Problem is I have scaleless fish in the tank (Bristlenose Catfish and two Banjo Catfish) which limits the medication I can put in, only other thing I've read is slowly heat the water up to high 20's/low 30's and this speeds up the parasites life cycle?
 
My full stocking is 11 Rummynose Tetra, 2 Keyhole Cichlids, 2 Banjo Catfish and 1 Bristlenose Catfish. It's worth noting the Bristlenose was added yesterday so may have carried in the disease with it.
 
Any help would be much appreciated as I want to treat this and sort it asap as the tanks only been up and running after cycling for a couple of weeks!

 

[Shelster]

I think you need to dose half the required amount, for twice the length of time - I used this treatment:

http/www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/shopping/details/121096352254.html

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

Two words, quarantine tank!
 
Okay.  Address the Ich soon before it outbreaks any more.  Rummy noses can't handle Ich very well once it outbreaks.  If you really want to save your rummy noses, I'd recommend moving the catfish out, and using salt and heat for them.  Seriously, I personally have 20-50% mortality in rummy noses when they are exposed to Ich.
 
Check what your catfishes' tolerance for salt is.  It must be low, but is it zero?  I really think heat and salt is the best way to go because it has never ever failed me yet.  I've even used other meds that did not work, had a few subsequent outbreaks.  Once I started the salt and heat treatment, things went back to normal.
 
If not, wait for someone with experience with scaleless fish to address it.  I have heard some chemicals you can use half-dose for scaleless fish, but don't take my word for it.
 
Crank the heat once whatever meds you decide to use are already dosed.  If you increase the life cycle without any treatment, all you'll be doing is speeding the process for another outbreak to occur.  I cannot stress this enough!  If you increase the life cycle of Ich without treating it, you will be making an outbreak occur even sooner!!
There are studies that show high temperatures alone can kill Ich, but this was 90 degrees F and higher.
 
Keep us posted, hope this helps!

I think you need to dose half the required amount, for twice the length of time - I used this treatment:

http/www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/shopping/details/121096352254.html

This medication says it treats NTD.  Interesting.  Last I've heard there was no known cure for NTD.  I hope these guys aren't full of it.

 

[Shelster]

It treated the ich outbreak I had with my scaleless loaches, as I said I just have dosed for twice the time.

I did have a quarantine tank but was advised on here to treat the whole tank as its present in every tank anyway, so all tank mates need treating...

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

It treated the ich outbreak I had with my scaleless loaches, as I said I just have dosed for twice the time.

I did have a quarantine tank but was advised on here to treat the whole tank as its present in every tank anyway, so all tank mates need treating...

This miss has had experience with scaleless fish and this medication.  Listen to her!
But again if you want to save your rummy noses, I'd separate them for treatment because half dosing will probably work at half speed.  Rummy noses donn't handle Ich well.
 
I mentioned the QT as a place to keep newly obtained fish.  Had he/she quarantined the new catfish, there would have been no need to treat the whole tank.  Indeed, when Ich is visible in a tank, that means it has already completed a full life cycle, which therefore means it is present in the entire tank.  So yes, treat all the fish now, but that can be prevented with a QT.

 

[Shelster]

Good points Neonblue, QT are a must

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

Good points Neonblue, QT are a must

I think like most of us, I learned this the hard way.

 

[Shelster]

Indeed!

One other thing - at the end of the treatment I did a large water change (75%) as they missed their water change in midst of treatment.

Don't forget to remove any carbon in your filter before treatment also.

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

We also forgot to mention, in case you already don't know, the nature of the life cycle of Ich suggests you keep the medication in for at least three days after you can see no visible spots.  This ensures all the lifestages of Ich have been killed.  Also, Ich can be in the gills of your fish, unseen.  So three days minimum.  I usually do about four when my temperature is 82-86 F.

 

[m1lky12]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! Unfortunately I don't have room for a QT tank, I know they are a time, effort and life saver in some cases for fish but I just don't have the room or funds to set one up right now 

 
So because of this I can't separate my catfish from the others half dosing/doubling the time frame of meds is going to be my best option i think along with increasing the temperature, unless there is another proven method when it comes to scaleless fish.
 
Unfortunately the only treatments I have are Sterazin and  Myxazin which aren't suitable and like a 5th of a bottle of white spot treatment which isn't enough so a trip to my LFS is going to have to happen tomorrow.
 
And I'll take your advice about the extra 3 days and water change, I'll keep this thread updated hopefully with good news!

 

[Shelster]

Good luck - some others may chime in with some words of wisdom too, hope it all works out

 

[m1lky12]

Right I've been to my LFS this morning and picked up King British White Spot Control, was literally the only option they had so didn't have much choice. Throughout this morning I've been raising the temperature slowly each hour, though my heater is set at 30 my tank is only reading 26ish due to having a semi open topped tank. I've half dosed the tank due to the catfish (though the guy at the LFS said Britlenoses and Banjos should be fine fully dosed as they are bony plated rather than 'soft' like loaches, if anyone could confirm that for me?) 
 
This morning I noticed a couple more Rummynoses had white spots, but I know the symptoms will get worse before they get better. I've also noticed a couple of times since adding the treatment one or two of them seem to freeze for a split second and sort of tilt to the side before they swim off, does anyone know anything about this? 
 
My plan is to half dose every 48 hours (as per the instructions), before each dose I plan to do a quick substrate vac and then replace the water and later on today when the temperature has risen add in an air stone in. Sound good?

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

I'm not sure how your meds work and what the dosage is, but keep in mind, taking water out probably means you're taking meds out as well.  I'm not sure how all this plays in with your dosaging.  There may be tricky math to do.  Good call with extra aeration.
 
As for rummy noses, I've seen that exactly "tilting" behavior in rummy noses being treated for Ich.  I always thought it had something to do with salt, but it seems like it might just Ich causing it!  How are the colors of their noses though?  That is a sure indication of their stress levels.
Rummy noses with a few spots = normal red color
Rummy noses with a minor outbreak = getting paler
Rummy noses with a major outbreak/multiple outbreaks = pale pink to almost white
Those are the observations of when my rummy noses had Ich.  They also stopped schooling when things got bad.

 

[m1lky12]

Yeah that did cross my mind, but my thoughts were it's not going to be anymore than a 10-15% WC, if that. And all this is going on while the tank is due it's WC as well so I don't want the water quality to drop especially with the Rummys intolerance to poor conditions, it's a tough one because I don't want to loose the effects of the meds.
 
And at the moment all 11 Rummys have got good red colour in there noses so not too stressed at the moment! Like I said in terms of behavior, apart from the odd tilting motion they are fine, shoaling together and eating well.
 
One other thing I was recommended both by my LFS and through online research is to either put a clove of garlic in the tank, or mix it in with food prior to feeding, what's the best way of going about this? 
 
Once again thanks for the quick reply and advice, very much appreciated.

 

[fluttermoth]

 I've half dosed the tank due to the catfish (though the guy at the LFS said Britlenoses and Banjos should be fine fully dosed as they are bony plated rather than 'soft' like loaches, if anyone could confirm that for me?) 

i was just scrolling down to say that, in this case, your LFS guy is quite right.
 
The risk with treating scaleless fish, is that they soak up some of it through their skin, and end up overdosing. Although BNs and banjos don't have scales, they do have 'scutes', which are like thick armour (corydoras are the same) and means they won't soak up any extra medication.
 
You can use a normal dosage for them. 
 
I'm not sure about the garlic, I've never done it.