To Have Or Not To Have?

[Haych]

Thanks Vicki - very helpful - p.s- is it friday we're meeting then? you said friday OR saturday?

And thanks also ianho - but my issue isn't knowing that a dog should be "bottom of the pack" - and I do tell my children how to behave around dogs - the issue isn't my kids and knowing how to train - it's whether a dog would be good for my kids - but thank you anyway

Hi Haych - is Friday okay for you? Think it would be better for us simply because then Saturday won't be so mental as we might well be travelling back home on Saturday night.
If not, I can always bring a small tank and heater and the bristlies can go in that overnight

I can see that you know how to train and treat dogs, but sometimes, some dogs can show unwanted behaviours no matter what you do and I think in a home with a young child, it's very hard to take the risk and try and correct the behaviour (especially when it's intolerance of/aggression towards your child) whilst the dog is still in the home environment.

I think you can never say 'such and such a breed is bad', and I didn't mean to say that when I mentioned the breeds that have been 'overbred' but there are certain breeds that are more likely to exhibit certain behaviours (such as BCs go mental without stimulation, and some smaller breeds can be very narky towards other dogs etc) and you can minimise the risk of these being a problem if you go for more discriminately bred dogs. If that makes sense .....

Friday is good - but would have to be around 4.30-5pm as I have a double driving lesson at 1.30pm.

And I know you weren't telling me how to train dogs, but alot of people (and no digs meant) have mentioned puppy training and early interaction etc is what I need to do - when it obviously isn't. Like you said - some dogs are just born aggressive and with two young children - I won't stand for it. If it were just me and Kev then I would have persavered, but you can never risk a child.

As mentioned above, popular breeds can be a problem. This is because many unscrupulous breeders are not selective in terms of parentage .... there can even be inbreeding. My grandmother had a cocker spaniel that was born viscious and anti-social. Even as a puppy he bit my brother.

I've seen labrador retrievers before.... they are always cheerful and sociable .... but they have a lot of energy and need a big place --- either that or they need to taken to a park almost every day. Any animal can have mental problems if it does not get love and attention plus an outlet for some of it's built up energy.

Trust me - Simba had plenty of love and plenty of attention, etc. He growled over a dentarask. Food aggression is a massive no-no as kids can have food anytime!

yes - labs are boisterous - but that is not my issue. We have a massive house and half a football field so wearing the dog out was never the issue. We used to lob the ball for him, wear him out, bring him in and he would sleep for hours lol

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and anyone else - please PLEASE stop mentioning puppy training - I know how to train and care for a dog - if you read my posts you will see I tried the interaction, I tried the more walks, and I tried to give them the love they want - what I want to know is - do you think a dog could help my daughter? Would the benefits be MORE than the bad points?

 

[nano_reef_ubergeek]

I think the answer is obvious... yes get a dog, but your daughter should really want a dog and help pick him out. Also, if you pick out a dog as an adult it may be easier to gauge it's temperament than to predict the adult demeanor of a puppy. Mixed breads also tend to have a better more even temperament. So that's something to consider.

 

[VickiandKev]

I don't think I would necessarily agree with that - I think adult dogs are harder to trust (and indeed should not be trusted for a very long time) as you don't know their past, even the smallest mistakes when they were pups has a big impact on adult behaviour.

My OH and I, before taking Ruby on, went to a rescue and picked out a lovely GSD/mastiff cross ***** who was only 18 months - she was a picture of people-friendly, and was not too bad with our pups when we walked them together either. A bit narky but nothing we couldn't work with.
We agreed to take her home on a trial period, but within an hour of getting home, with very little warning, she turned and Kev ended up in A&E. Needless to say, this poor girl went back to the rescue as with my other two dogs, I just couldn't have an aggressive dog. Full stop. Shiloh was only a little pup and I would not risk his life.

Yet we got Ruby and although she showed a few concerning behaviours as a youngster, we know her now and know we can and have corrected any unwanted behaviour. It took two weeks for her to show submission towards us! But now she'll come and sit quietly with her ears back, waiting for fuss.
Whenever Skye has growled at the other pups over food I have not hesitated to get right in, claim the food and put her in her place. I don't think I would be so bold with an adult I had not had from a puppy.

That's just me though. I know I couldn't get the best from an adult dog I didn't know well as I wouldn't have the confidence in my own ability to protect those around me more than anything. Dogs know when people lack the confidence to lead, and that makes for a very dangerous situation!

I do think a puppy is the best way to go - your daughter can learn to lead the dog, and be confident in helping you discipline it (I'm sure she'd dive right in with a small, unthreatening puppy, and that confidence would carry through to when the dog was fully grown and respected her - but understandably, she would probably be worried about leading an adult dog, as I'm sure you would be worried about allowing her to!).

One thing that's absolutely key though is to let your daughter feed the puppy ... take the food off the puppy, claim the puppy's toys etc etc. I learnt a valuable lesson fairly recently with my oldest girl - never let a dog think anything is it's own. None of Skye's things are her own - not her toys, her bed, her food. Nothing. Everything is mine and Kev's and she's simply allowed to have them when we give her permission. I'm not saying you do this Haych, but I know so many really good dog owners who fail in this one thing - they say 'Oh, well it's understandable that he growls because that's HIS food/toy/bed/crate'. BIG NO! It makes me cringe.

 

[amber26]

How about a rescue puppy you will be doing your good deed by giving a dog a good home or even a young dog they will give you a voucher towards neutring and it won't cost you has much has a breeders dog just a thought we have got a beautiful little terrier she is a joy with the kids very gently anyway good luck maybe you could have aday out with the kids to an animal shelter or try labrador rescues they have pups in a lot

 

[ian]

And thanks also ianho - but my issue isn't knowing that a dog should be "bottom of the pack" - and I do tell my children how to behave around dogs - the issue isn't my kids and knowing how to train - it's whether a dog would be good for my kids - but thank you anyway

Then my honest answer is no. I think personally that your daughter will be to young to appriciate my points up top and you could end up with 2 whirwinds around the house. Saying that i don't know how bad your daughters Autism is so, its totally up to you. I would wait a couple of years, and see how the Autism progresses.

 

[Haych]

Thanks Vicki - you have pinpointed exactly what I was worried about in having an older dog.

And thanks ianho - this is where I worry. But her autism isnt bad - it's on the mild side - but sometimes she can be very incoherant, but she seems to respond to feeding our cats treats, which is why I wonder about a pup.

Thanks for all your help guys - keep all thoughts coming, am still very undecided!

 

[nano_reef_ubergeek]

Part of what is going on is that you seem to be in favor of larger more aggressive breeds. Schnauzers are very protective and loyal, if your daughter has one as a pup and takes care it it, the only danger would be to you (the dog may favor your daughter).

Rescuing a puppy might be a good idea, if you can meet the mom.

 

[Shelby]

I didn't read some of this but I will jump in with my knowledge. If you want a lab find working lines. Someone mentioned showlines not being as stable and they are absolutely correct. Showlines are bred for looks and to prance around a ring. It doesn't matter as long as they move good and look good. Working lines tend to be more stable because they have to be. They are bred to do a job that requires them to be stable. BUT: Working lines also have the issue of having way more drive and ambition.

Schnauzers can be nasty. As can any small dog. People think its cute so they allow their little dogs to get away with bad behaviou. If you are thinking Schnauzers I would suggest a Giant. Beautiful dogs but require lots of grooming.

If you feel the need for a registered dog from a breeder, reasearch research research! There are a lot of breeders out there that are just in it for the money and don't care about the breed or the temperament and believe me, a lot of breeders will blame the buyer for any issues and not themselves and their shady breeding practices.

Obedience classes. A must when bringing home a new puppy. Obedience maintenence is also extremely important. People tend to think ok we passed the class we are done. I know have an obedient dog. This is not the case. It MUST be maintained!

Potty trainig. Use a crate. It will save you tons in carpet shampooing!! Dogs are den animals. They get used to and come to love their crates.

Good luck!!

 

[Haych]

Thanks Shelby - I had both dogs crate trained but they both refused to go in their crate as it was their home

Its looking like a no go atm anyway - we have had long hard talks and we just don't want to risk our relationship - with Simba we nearly split up over him as we both had very different opinions

We'll consider something when we're older - maybe something we can kick into line (I am joking I promise!)

But thanks everyone - your opinions and advice has been very useful to us

 

[Shelby]

Thanks Shelby - I had both dogs crate trained but they both refused to go in their crate as it was their home

Its looking like a no go atm anyway - we have had long hard talks and we just don't want to risk our relationship - with Simba we nearly split up over him as we both had very different opinions

We'll consider something when we're older - maybe something we can kick into line (I am joking I promise!)

But thanks everyone - your opinions and advice has been very useful to us

I have a one GSD that turned 2 this past August. When he's done playing he goes and lays down in his crate for me to put him away. If I want him to go in there he just looks at me like I'm retarded. Grab a treat and he runs in there so fast he almost comes out the back..lol I think it's his way of teaching me stupid human tricks. Look what I can make mom do...

Crates should never be used as a punishment. Try feeding in the crate and they are usually pretty happy with it. It's a very nice tool when used correctly to keep your dogs safe and out of harms way.

When you do decide to get a dog, please keep in mind that NO dog should be left unattended with ANY child EVER. All dogs have teeth and all are capable of biting and doing damage. Even those cute little fluffy dogs that don't look big enough to kill a flea on their tails! Occasionally we take in dogs with behaviour issues for other people and I've had a Dachshund bite me hard enough to cause tendon damage so that I couldn't use my hand for over a week.

oh.. and btw.. GSD's are very nice dogs

 

[Floyds mum]

Have you thought of getting a greyhound or whippet? They are probably the most layed back breed you'll find, there is a rescue called the retired greyhound trust that takes greyhounds that have passed their racing career and they rehome them, they do all the tests (cat/children etc). Thats where i got my boy from and if anything he is petrified of kids lol he pulls away from them and he has never been agressive well only to cats but thats a given lol. Some CAN be homed with cats.

Obv. you know about training and all that so wont start on that

My parents got a whippet lurcher (3/4 whippet and 1/4 bedlington terrier) as a 7wk old puppy, after 25yrs of not having a puppy, and yes he's done puppy like things, like peeing indoors, but he's nearly 2 now and although he's quite exuberent and bouncy he takes no time in calming down. Lurchers could be a good idea cos they are generally either a greyhound or whippet crossed with a working breed, so they have the advantage of being calm and layed back like the greyhound/whippet but the stamina and endurance of the "working" breed.
He is poorly atm dicky tummy, he's cuddled up close to my mum lol.

 

[Floyds mum]

And thanks also ianho - but my issue isn't knowing that a dog should be "bottom of the pack" - and I do tell my children how to behave around dogs - the issue isn't my kids and knowing how to train - it's whether a dog would be good for my kids - but thank you anyway

Then my honest answer is no. I think personally that your daughter will be to young to appriciate my points up top and you could end up with 2 whirwinds around the house. Saying that i don't know how bad your daughters Autism is so, its totally up to you. I would wait a couple of years, and see how the Autism progresses.

In a way i agree but i also disagree, there are autism dogs now that help children with autism, Id say imo get it diagnosed and/or talk to someone about having a dog with your daughter for their advice.
As someone who has always been around dogs all my life, yes ive probably been nipped and i have been taught how to be around sdogs i wouldnt say rule out having a dog completely just because you have had a few that have gone for your kids, but if it causes you and kev to fight then on that basis mb wait a few years as ianho said, but i dont think your daughter is too young to have a dog in the house, obv. its your decision sit down and have a serious talk with kev air your feelings and thoughts out between each other. When my parents got their puppy we had recently lost our whippet and they sat and talked about getting another dog, but be honest with him cos there is no point in keeping things back and risking the possibility of splitting up esp over a dog cos they are supposed to e part of the family
Let us know how things go.

 

[Assaye]

I'm no dog expert but have you considered getting a retired guide dog? It will be an older dog but chances are it will be perfectly socialised and behaved, which would save you a lot of hassle. Can't comment on whether an older dog (that you could trust) or a puppy would be better for your little one, but at least with an older dog that can be trusted (and not all older dogs can be), you wouldn't have to worry about poo/pee on the floor, barking, growling, barging or any of the other things that might upset/scare rather than help your daughter.

I've found animals to be great for kids. My brother is a little autistic and he has a wonderful relationhip with our cat. It's just lovely and the cat helps calm him down.

We adopted my grandmother's retired guide dog and he was impecable.

 

[Haych]

now I never thought of that - thank you - will deffo be something to look into / think about