TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
The best part about the link I provided is the paper on the infestation. I have only been keeping fish for 23 years because I started late in life. Perhaps the hardest area of this hobby is diseases and infestations. The first problem we face is how to identify them correctly. And when we can do this we are faced with the issue of how to cure a specific illness or infestation.
In some countries the biggest issue is one of availability of medications. In my country, AMerica. the problem is actually the reverse. We can find just about any med we might want. The problem is they are far from being equal. It is much similar to the problem with the cycling bacteria and starter cultures. Because these are possible but not universally available in terms of what is in them. Every product manufacturer in our hobby feels compelled to compete on as many levels as possible. With the bacteria this has led to most products not containing the actual bacteria needed.
But the above does not stop the companies for making a product they claim will work even when they know is is absolutely not what is needed. Just consider the fact that the nitrifying bacteria in tanks do not form spores, yet some companies sell you a bottle of spores to "help cycle a tank."
This leaves us, the hobbyists who care about their fish etc. to fend for themselves. And the result is when somebody posts on a site or social media with a problem, the result is a host of suggestions, many of which may be useless and some of which may do more harm than good.
Here is what I have learned on this topic over the years. There are some problems we can easily diagnose and find a decent med to treat. A perfect example would be Ich. It is pretty easy to ID and there is a ton of science on it as well as how to deal with it. But many of the things with which we must deal re a lot more difficult to diagnose and then to find the proper treatment needed.
Some years back the NEC had arranged to have a hands on seminar on diseases, their diagnosis and treatment. I signed up for it as soon as it was posted. And then it got cancelled due to lack of people signing up for it. I think most of us are intimidated by this entire area of our hobby.
I am an unusual fish keeper as I became one who looks to the scientific literature to find answers to issues of diseases and treatments of and for our fish. And just like medical issues for humans and the treatments for them has evolved over time, so has it for our fishy friends.
About 20 years ago a major seller on Aquabid whose family ran a big import and sale business helped me out by sending me my first Flubendazole. I also discovered Dr. Harrison's site at that time. One of the best things about the site is there are a couple of papers on the diseases and treatments which are a lot easier to understand than a research paper. Even better is the fact that when I had a Q. about a med. and how to use it in a specific case, I could email him and get an answer in return.
One of the more important things I have learned over the years is that I, and most others in the hobby, are not all that great in dealing with a lot of the health issues. We often diagnose wrongly and that can have several outcomes. One is that we end up with a solution that will not help because the diagnosis was wrong. Sometime we diagnose wrong but select a med that will help with the actual problem- an accidental cure. And then there are the cases where we get it right from start to finish.
In the end what this all boils down to is if we can find a properly qualified expert to help us when we are lost in terms of pinning down the cause of the problem and then finding the solution that will work. Sometime this is easy but a lot of the time we end up with misinformation. A lot of this is driven by the fact that we sympathize with our fellow fish keepers when they are facing a health issue. We try to help. Often this is a case of the blind leading the blind.
What we need to do is to find the advice that is accurate. That can be harder to do than we realize. I can say for my part that over the years I have lost fish because I had no clue and that I have also cured some nasty problems. I have gotten some things right and plenty of them wrong as well.
I can say this much. When it came to needed the meds I get from Dr. H., I have always had decent outcomes. Before he will sell folks some of his meds, he may even ask you why you need it. I have a large clown loach (think about 10 inches) which suffered from wasting disease. I had treated it in the 150 gal. tank, But that costs a lot of money to medicate. i could never quite get ahead of the problem. I finally moved the fish into a cycled H tank. so I could treat it more cheaply and monitor it better.
My med. of choice was Flubendazole which I get from Dr. H. The fish was not in good shape and I was worried about losing it after having it for a very long time. I ordered more FLubendazole for Dr. H., he asked why, and I told hime. A short time later I asked him if it was OK to mix that meds. with either Metrodinazole or Praziquantel. he said no, that the Flubendazole was a strong med and needed to be used on its own.
After a 2 week treatment wwith the med. I needed to wait a cople of weeks for the follow-up dosing. But the fish was still ill. So after clearing the Flub. from the water, I did a round of Prazi to be safe. And once that cleared the water I did the second round of of the Flub. This was all done last June/July. Today that fish is in good shape, back in the 150 and doing well. None of this could have happened without the information on wasting and treating it on his site and then his advice along the way.
This is a pretty good site in terms of most of the information one can find. However, like any similar site it also has misinformation. My practice for many years now is to take what I read on forums and social media with a "grain of salt." I need to find independant science before I will confirm any diagnosis or treatment for it.
Here is a decent example. It is a paper reviewing all of the know treatments for Ich at that time (2011):
Picon-Camacho, S.M., Marcos-Lopez, M., Bron, J.E. and Shinn, A.P., 2012. An assessment of the use of drug and non-drug interventions in the treatment of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876, a protozoan parasite of freshwater fish. Parasitology, 139(2), pp.149-190. Big Ich Paper
The most interesting parts are the two tables which review the various treatments that have been tried and how well they worked or failed to do so. One table deals with medications and the other with non-med. treatments. You will be amazed by how extensive these two tables are.
I can say thay when it comes to the things that Dr. Harrison covers and the meds he offers, I do trust what he says. Of course, all of the above is just this fish keeprs opinion. Each of you will have to find your own best answers for whatever comes up in your tanks or tanks. I can also state that the very last place I look to for good information on this subject is social media. If I am sick, I consult a doctor not a social influencer.
edited for typos
(I have earned a black belt in the ancient art of Tai Po)
In some countries the biggest issue is one of availability of medications. In my country, AMerica. the problem is actually the reverse. We can find just about any med we might want. The problem is they are far from being equal. It is much similar to the problem with the cycling bacteria and starter cultures. Because these are possible but not universally available in terms of what is in them. Every product manufacturer in our hobby feels compelled to compete on as many levels as possible. With the bacteria this has led to most products not containing the actual bacteria needed.
But the above does not stop the companies for making a product they claim will work even when they know is is absolutely not what is needed. Just consider the fact that the nitrifying bacteria in tanks do not form spores, yet some companies sell you a bottle of spores to "help cycle a tank."
This leaves us, the hobbyists who care about their fish etc. to fend for themselves. And the result is when somebody posts on a site or social media with a problem, the result is a host of suggestions, many of which may be useless and some of which may do more harm than good.
Here is what I have learned on this topic over the years. There are some problems we can easily diagnose and find a decent med to treat. A perfect example would be Ich. It is pretty easy to ID and there is a ton of science on it as well as how to deal with it. But many of the things with which we must deal re a lot more difficult to diagnose and then to find the proper treatment needed.
Some years back the NEC had arranged to have a hands on seminar on diseases, their diagnosis and treatment. I signed up for it as soon as it was posted. And then it got cancelled due to lack of people signing up for it. I think most of us are intimidated by this entire area of our hobby.
I am an unusual fish keeper as I became one who looks to the scientific literature to find answers to issues of diseases and treatments of and for our fish. And just like medical issues for humans and the treatments for them has evolved over time, so has it for our fishy friends.
About 20 years ago a major seller on Aquabid whose family ran a big import and sale business helped me out by sending me my first Flubendazole. I also discovered Dr. Harrison's site at that time. One of the best things about the site is there are a couple of papers on the diseases and treatments which are a lot easier to understand than a research paper. Even better is the fact that when I had a Q. about a med. and how to use it in a specific case, I could email him and get an answer in return.
One of the more important things I have learned over the years is that I, and most others in the hobby, are not all that great in dealing with a lot of the health issues. We often diagnose wrongly and that can have several outcomes. One is that we end up with a solution that will not help because the diagnosis was wrong. Sometime we diagnose wrong but select a med that will help with the actual problem- an accidental cure. And then there are the cases where we get it right from start to finish.
In the end what this all boils down to is if we can find a properly qualified expert to help us when we are lost in terms of pinning down the cause of the problem and then finding the solution that will work. Sometime this is easy but a lot of the time we end up with misinformation. A lot of this is driven by the fact that we sympathize with our fellow fish keepers when they are facing a health issue. We try to help. Often this is a case of the blind leading the blind.
What we need to do is to find the advice that is accurate. That can be harder to do than we realize. I can say for my part that over the years I have lost fish because I had no clue and that I have also cured some nasty problems. I have gotten some things right and plenty of them wrong as well.
I can say this much. When it came to needed the meds I get from Dr. H., I have always had decent outcomes. Before he will sell folks some of his meds, he may even ask you why you need it. I have a large clown loach (think about 10 inches) which suffered from wasting disease. I had treated it in the 150 gal. tank, But that costs a lot of money to medicate. i could never quite get ahead of the problem. I finally moved the fish into a cycled H tank. so I could treat it more cheaply and monitor it better.
My med. of choice was Flubendazole which I get from Dr. H. The fish was not in good shape and I was worried about losing it after having it for a very long time. I ordered more FLubendazole for Dr. H., he asked why, and I told hime. A short time later I asked him if it was OK to mix that meds. with either Metrodinazole or Praziquantel. he said no, that the Flubendazole was a strong med and needed to be used on its own.
After a 2 week treatment wwith the med. I needed to wait a cople of weeks for the follow-up dosing. But the fish was still ill. So after clearing the Flub. from the water, I did a round of Prazi to be safe. And once that cleared the water I did the second round of of the Flub. This was all done last June/July. Today that fish is in good shape, back in the 150 and doing well. None of this could have happened without the information on wasting and treating it on his site and then his advice along the way.
This is a pretty good site in terms of most of the information one can find. However, like any similar site it also has misinformation. My practice for many years now is to take what I read on forums and social media with a "grain of salt." I need to find independant science before I will confirm any diagnosis or treatment for it.
Here is a decent example. It is a paper reviewing all of the know treatments for Ich at that time (2011):
Picon-Camacho, S.M., Marcos-Lopez, M., Bron, J.E. and Shinn, A.P., 2012. An assessment of the use of drug and non-drug interventions in the treatment of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876, a protozoan parasite of freshwater fish. Parasitology, 139(2), pp.149-190. Big Ich Paper
The most interesting parts are the two tables which review the various treatments that have been tried and how well they worked or failed to do so. One table deals with medications and the other with non-med. treatments. You will be amazed by how extensive these two tables are.
I can say thay when it comes to the things that Dr. Harrison covers and the meds he offers, I do trust what he says. Of course, all of the above is just this fish keeprs opinion. Each of you will have to find your own best answers for whatever comes up in your tanks or tanks. I can also state that the very last place I look to for good information on this subject is social media. If I am sick, I consult a doctor not a social influencer.
edited for typos
(I have earned a black belt in the ancient art of Tai Po)
Last edited:
