Thinking Of Joining The Salty Side - Some Thoughts....

[SouthernCross]

Hi
 
I have been a freshwater keeper for about a decade and have a big 450 litre planted tank of mid sized American cichlids (ellioti, acaras and the like) and over the last year or so I have been thinking a lot and reading a lot about starting a salty tank. Just wanted some feedback on some thoughts I'm having. Two of my LFS's have really expanded their salty sections and everytime I am in getting things for the fresh tank I can't help but be drawn to their reef displays and its a project I would really like to try.
 
Tank Size
I know, everyone says like fresh the biggest you can fit/afford is best - but given I am new I was thinking maybe around the 300 litre mark might be a better place to start than the 'dream' 500+ tank? I am just thinking learning salinity and mixing water is going to be quite a big learning curve and when it comes to water changes starting that bit smaller (although by no means a nano at all!) might make it easier while I'm learning? Any thoughts on this?
 
Also - the sheer cost of jumping straight to the 'big one' and all the expensive equipment and the live rock required might also bring cost factor into it to. There's also the cost of if I make a mistake (likely in the first couple of years!) and kill my reef! Also - the house I'm currently in I will only be in for another 2 - 3 years and given that it will have to be moved at some point is something I am also thinking about.
 
I have been looking at the AquaReef range online, on youtube etc and it seems to get a pretty good rap from those who have it. Being a salt newbie a 'kit' tank seems the way to go. So considering the 275 cube or the 300? Is their any benefit in either shape? Thoughts on these being good tanks for me to 'learn' on? Fish is a hobby I plan on keeping for life and I want to get it right.
 
Equipment
I know I will be up for probably a lighting upgrade from the stock standard Aquareef and maybe a skimmer upgrade from what I've been reading too. Given I live in Australia where it gets very hot in summer I will probably need a chiller too. As well as test kits for monitoring the usual as well as salinity...
 
RO Kits
This is one thing I don't really understand - I know you need them, but I don't get how they work. Are they portable? do you have to have them plumbed in under your sink? And you need to mix the water before it goes in, what kind of containers/systems do people use to make this process easy? The water mixing is something I am trying to get my head around and is especially one reason why I think dealing with smaller volumes of water initially may be of benefit! Although from what I understand, the water changes aren't as big on salty tanks as fresh? (I do 50% + on my freshie regularly for example). Another thing I don't understand well is refugiums, but those don't seem to be 100% necessary so I will leave that for another day!
 
Stocking - The Funnest Part!
I am in love with saltwater fish, I think they are just so stunning. I've started making a list of fish that I like, trying to look for reef safe fish as I do want to try corals. I have also based my list off things I have seen and liked at my LFS, so I know they would be available to me. From the reading I've done its best to start with soft corals that don't require feeding, get your handle on those before getting more difficult ones and that is what I plan to do.
 
I would love to hear people's thoughts on the list below, whether they think it is a good mix, and how many of these would be a good combination in the 275 - 300 litre range I think I will be starting with (in addition to CUC of course).
 
Oscellaris clowns pair
Yellow tang
Small group of blue green chromis
A coral beauty or flame angel (or both?)
A wrasse, maybe fairy, six line or mystery
Flame Hawkfish
Royal Gramma or Orchid dottyback (I know both wouldn't get along, pros or cons for either)
Fire goby
Banggai Cardinal
Watchman goby
Bicolor or tailspot blenny
 
 
Regal tang/powder blue tang/purple tang
Small group of anthias
Triggerfish, picasso or Niger
(I know these last separated few require a bigger tank and I guess they will be on the 'one day' list when I have a bigger one - how long do these guys take to grow?).
 
Would just be really interested in some feedback about what would be a good stocking list out of those options (I know I can't fit them all) and just my approach in general. I've done a lot of reading and been giving this a lot of thought and I definitely don't want to rush into anything.
 
Looking forward to chatting with you all!

 

[noobgamers]

ok im no pro at this but I will try to help I believe between the 275 cube and the 300 the one that has less depth will be the best the 300 probably as allot of light is blocked by water e.g all red light is gone in the first 12 inches and all blue in 24 so those few inches really help in that don't know much about the stocking but I would say clownfish are really fun fish nice colours easy to keep also I would recommend a shrimp and goby you will probably be able to buy them from one of your local lfs chromis are nice fish but on the duller side of the marine hobby I would cardinals your looking at getting baajis or whatever theyre called but they need groups of 6 and I would look at emperor and pyjama they are both very nice fish and effective in schools. for other fish maybe puffers if you don't plan on getting corals just my two cents.

 

[betta fish]

I would say no to the sixline and orchid dotty back as they can really be a pita once established, if you do add them they should be the last to go in as they will harass any new arrivals constantly however, the Royal Gramma is a more peaceful choice so should be ok as for Triggers never kept them as never had a tank big enough but I think some are not reef safe? the Picasso may be one, I think they nip corals and Invertebrates so I would probably give them a miss too, good luck I wish I had the money and space for a 300! 

 

[SouthernCross]

ok im no pro at this but I will try to help I believe between the 275 cube and the 300 the one that has less depth will be the best the 300 probably as allot of light is blocked by water e.g all red light is gone in the first 12 inches and all blue in 24 so those few inches really help in that don't know much about the stocking but I would say clownfish are really fun fish nice colours easy to keep also I would recommend a shrimp and goby you will probably be able to buy them from one of your local lfs chromis are nice fish but on the duller side of the marine hobby I would cardinals your looking at getting baajis or whatever theyre called but they need groups of 6 and I would look at emperor and pyjama they are both very nice fish and effective in schools. for other fish maybe puffers if you don't plan on getting corals just my two cents.

 
Cheers for the reply! I have just looked up the specs:
 
275 - Aquarium size 70 x 70 x 77cm high
300 - Aquarium size 102 x 52 x 73cm high
 
You are right about the depths, seems the 300 is shallower. I didn't think that would make as much of a difference, so thank you for the tip. I did read banggai cardinals could be kept singly? On checking just now aren't banggai's and emperors the same fish?
 
I do plan on having corals so definitely no to puffers, despite how cute they are.
 
 

I would say no to the sixline and orchid dotty back as they can really be a pita once established, if you do add them they should be the last to go in as they will harass any new arrivals constantly however, the Royal Gramma is a more peaceful choice so should be ok as for Triggers never kept them as never had a tank big enough but I think some are not reef safe? the Picasso may be one, I think they nip corals and Invertebrates so I would probably give them a miss too, good luck I wish I had the money and space for a 300! 

 
That's good, I'm not fussy on what kind of wrasse, I just want a pretty one, so more than happy to rule certain ones out for whatever reason There are lots of pretty fairy wrasses out there.
 
Yep, good to know about the orchid dottyback - I lumped it and the royal gramma together as I just wanted that brilliant splash of purple in there somewhere. Sounds like the gramma will be better behaved for me.
 
I don't think even a 300 is big enough for a trigger so I think he might have to be held over for a few years.
 
I feel like there is just so much to be learned in saltwater! I sit down and look up one thing and it leads to the next to the next to the next and before I know it I've spent six hours reading

 

[Donya]

The reason for the "bigger is better" recommendation is that a lot of people want to start with something like 50L, which is tiny in the marine world. 300L is a great starting size.
 ​

This is one thing I don't really understand - I know you need them, but I don't get how they work. Are they portable? do you have to have them plumbed in under your sink?
 

 
It's easiest to have it semi-permanent (might have to be removed for changing media depending on where it goes). However, I've got one with a sink attachment where I just hook it up to the tap to make RO and then take it off afterwards. 
 
 

And you need to mix the water before it goes in, what kind of containers/systems do people use to make this process easy?
 

 
Buckets/bins. I mix using the 5gal buckets salt is sold in, but obviously if you can mix and store a larger volume it will be easier. 
 
 

The water mixing is something I am trying to get my head around and is especially one reason why I think dealing with smaller volumes of water initially may be of benefit! Although from what I understand, the water changes aren't as big on salty tanks as fresh? (I do 50% + on my freshie regularly for example).
 

 
Larger tanks like the one you're planning often only have a 10% change. Smaller tanks where fitting a good skimmer can need 20-25%. A good skimmer will do a lot of the cleaning work for you.

 

[Man of fish]

I have 2 large brute trash cans for my water. I fill a 20 gallon with RO water and use this to have extra RO water and for my auto top off, and then I fill my 30 gallon one with RO water and mix the salt in there.

 

[noobgamers]

 

ok im no pro at this but I will try to help I believe between the 275 cube and the 300 the one that has less depth will be the best the 300 probably as allot of light is blocked by water e.g all red light is gone in the first 12 inches and all blue in 24 so those few inches really help in that don't know much about the stocking but I would say clownfish are really fun fish nice colours easy to keep also I would recommend a shrimp and goby you will probably be able to buy them from one of your local lfs chromis are nice fish but on the duller side of the marine hobby I would cardinals your looking at getting baajis or whatever theyre called but they need groups of 6 and I would look at emperor and pyjama they are both very nice fish and effective in schools. for other fish maybe puffers if you don't plan on getting corals just my two cents.

 
Cheers for the reply! I have just looked up the specs:
 
275 - Aquarium size 70 x 70 x 77cm high
300 - Aquarium size 102 x 52 x 73cm high
 
You are right about the depths, seems the 300 is shallower. I didn't think that would make as much of a difference, so thank you for the tip. I did read banggai cardinals could be kept singly? On checking just now aren't banggai's and emperors the same fish?
 
I do plan on having corals so definitely no to puffers, despite how cute they are.
 
 

I would say no to the sixline and orchid dotty back as they can really be a pita once established, if you do add them they should be the last to go in as they will harass any new arrivals constantly however, the Royal Gramma is a more peaceful choice so should be ok as for Triggers never kept them as never had a tank big enough but I think some are not reef safe? the Picasso may be one, I think they nip corals and Invertebrates so I would probably give them a miss too, good luck I wish I had the money and space for a 300! 

 
That's good, I'm not fussy on what kind of wrasse, I just want a pretty one, so more than happy to rule certain ones out for whatever reason

There are lots of pretty fairy wrasses out there.
 
Yep, good to know about the orchid dottyback - I lumped it and the royal gramma together as I just wanted that brilliant splash of purple in there somewhere. Sounds like the gramma will be better behaved for me.

 
I don't think even a 300 is big enough for a trigger so I think he might have to be held over for a few years.
 
I feel like there is just so much to be learned in saltwater! I sit down and look up one thing and it leads to the next to the next to the next and before I know it I've spent six hours reading

 

i am only a noob have never kept a marine tank just know bits baout them so maybe they can be kept singly

 

[Man of fish]

bangaiis can be kept singly. usually people do trios, or pairs, but be warned I've heard many stories of males killing each other

 

[SouthernCross]

Has anyone got any thoughts on how much of that stocking list I'd be able to have in a 300?

 

[Man of fish]

Oscellaris clowns pair- good
Yellow tang- little small tank for him but should be ok
Small group of blue green chromis- is personally not do these so I don't overstock it but it's personal preference as to what you'd rather have in the tank.
A coral beauty or flame angel (or both?)- pick one
A wrasse, maybe fairy, six line or mystery- ok
Flame Hawkfish- be cautious with these guys
Royal Gramma or Orchid dottyback (I know both wouldn't get along, pros or cons for either)- I'd go with the gramma. more peaceful
Fire goby- good
Banggai Cardinal- do 2-3
Watchman goby- I'd get a pistol shrimp with him
Bicolor or tailspot blenny- I have a bicolor and he's good.

 

[SouthernCross]

Oscellaris clowns pair- good
Yellow tang- little small tank for him but should be ok
Small group of blue green chromis- is personally not do these so I don't overstock it but it's personal preference as to what you'd rather have in the tank.
A coral beauty or flame angel (or both?)- pick one
A wrasse, maybe fairy, six line or mystery- ok
Flame Hawkfish- be cautious with these guys
Royal Gramma or Orchid dottyback (I know both wouldn't get along, pros or cons for either)- I'd go with the gramma. more peaceful
Fire goby- good
Banggai Cardinal- do 2-3
Watchman goby- I'd get a pistol shrimp with him
Bicolor or tailspot blenny- I have a bicolor and he's good.

 
Why do you need to be cautious with the hawkfish?
How does the goby and the pistol shrimp go together? Do they have one of those strange host relationships?
 
So otherwise generally I've picked a pretty good stocking list would you say?

 

[ech0o]

My advice is DO IT AND NEVER LOOK BACK!!!

 
Oscellaris clowns pair- excellent beginner fish
Yellow tang- little small tank for him but should be ok, once it gets big just trade him for a smaller one again!!!
Small group of blue green chromis- they are neat fish and really dont take much bioload, watch that dottyback though!
A coral beauty or flame angel (or both?)- both are cool angels!
A wrasse, maybe fairy, six line or mystery- six line will bully some of the more timid fish when they get older, fairy and mystery are really peaceful, and pygmy would be an option too
Flame Hawkfish- great fish, everyone say be careful, you are not running a reef tank, nor did you mention any small shrimp species, flame hawks are great little fish, just like little aqua puppies!!
Royal Gramma or Orchid dottyback (I know both wouldn't get along, pros or cons for either)- I'd go with the gramma. more peaceful and waaaaay more vivid coloration!  dotty backs are RUDE!!
Fire goby- good but very very timid, known to jump to their death
Banggai Cardinal- you need a school
Watchman goby-  i dont like digging and sand sifting gobies because i keep so much coral, they usually cover corals in sand.
Bicolor or tailspot blenny- AMAZING FISH, my favorite, the bicolor blenny!!!

 

[ech0o]

a reasonable replacement for the watchman goby would be a scooter blenny or dragonette, they say not more than 1 blenny per tank, but those kinds occupy 2 clearly different locations in the tank.   The dragons hang out on the bottom 1/3rd of the tank while the the bicolor tends to inhabit the middle/top of the rockwork, often perching and looking down on the tank from high rocks.

 

[SouthernCross]

I was going to go for reef with some easy beginner corals.... Why is this s problem with hawkish? I have read they are awesome little fish with loads of personality, hence why I was keen on one.

Obviously I will have to have some shrimp as part of my CUC - are these the ones that will clash with hawkish?

CUC is another thing I don't know a hell of a lot about... Just that most people have at least one or a few of those red me white shrimps with long feelers and lots of snails and sometimes crabs...

Otherwise I'm pretty pleased, sounds like I haven't chosen any disaster fish at any rate...

Could I have all of those in a 300 litre or is that too overstocked?

 

[SouthernCross]

Anyone?