Thinking Of Going From Fresh To Marine

[n3ont3tra]

Nah it's easy. Marine is soo much better.
FWIW the 10g high tech planted shrimp tank i had was much more maintenance than my marine is now.

 

[GShorty1981]

I just dont like the idea of having a RO unit fitted (a cheap unit in lfs was £100 and god knows how much to have it plummed in!) and none of my LFS's sell it premixed.

Are you 100% it is need for Inverts? i heard its was only needed in coral set ups and to control Algae

 

[CageUK]

Nah it's easy. Marine is soo much better.
FWIW the 10g high tech planted shrimp tank i had was much more maintenance than my marine is now.

I agree. Though the thought of marine is quite daunting, the reality is much easier. It's almost like looking after a freshwater tank but you mix salt water instead!

The lighting you use depends on what you have in the tank.
If you are only going to have fish and live rock, with fake corals then your existing lighting assuming it's T8 will be fine, the fish are not fussy about lights at all.
If however you decide to buy some soft corals, and no matter what you say now, if you have live rock you will almost certainly be tempted to buy corals, then you will at least need T5 lights along with Actinic (blue) lights as soft corals will struggle under standard T8s.

A protein skimmer is unnecessary in a nano tank providing you can maintain reasonably regular water changes.
If you are going for live rock then you will not need to use your existing filters but can still use them for water flow.

If you decide to have corals at some stage then they are quite dis-tolerant of high nitrates. This is the main reason for not using tap water (unless it is nitrate free). Also high nitrates can very quickly cause algae blooms in salt water. For the same reason, if you are keeping softies you should take the medium out of your filter if you still have it running as this will generate nitrates. I use an external filter with all medium removed in one of my tanks purely for water movement, for driving my UV light (not essential) and for keeping Rowaphos and other similar materials.
You can buy RO water in most LFS at around 2.50-3.50gbp for 25ltrs. You will need a couple of containers for the RO, something to mix the water in and somewhere to do it. A spare heater, pump and air pump for the water mix as well.

Once you have done a couple of mixes you will wonder what all the mystery is about.

The rewards for keeping a marine tank are much more than freshwater (I have both). The marine tank is much more of a complete ecological environment. If you get good live rock you will always see something different appear in your tank. Even after about 9 months of owning my first marine tank I'm still seeing new stuff appearing...it's fascinating.

Re water testing, some of your existing test kits may also be suitable for salt water minimising your outlay there. I would strongly suggest getting a refractometer though instead of a hydrometer as peace of mind/ease of water mixing is easily worth the extra money. I had two hydrometers which I tried to use together but they both gave me different results!!

In general the cost of stock for the tank is higher than freshwater. Fish range from 5gbp to 25-35gbp for the type of fish for your size tank. Soft corals are normally around 15gbp to 40gbp depending of course on what and where you buy. You can buy frags of corals (very small samples) for much cheaper but you will have to wait for them to grow/spread. If you are patient you can save a lot of money this way. Look also on ebay for local fish enthusiasts selling stock from their own tanks and you can get bargains this way.

If you read n3ont3tra's post re: equipment costs but substitue the dollar sign for pounds sterling, the costs seem about right though as a power head you may get away with a Koralia nano which is about 22gbp if you are still going to run your filter as water flow.

A bit of research and patience will reap rewards.

Good luck in your decision.

Cheers

 

[GShorty1981]

I have no plans to keep corals because i really dont like them at all! I think they look weird and freak me out lmao!

I only want 2 Percs or false percs (not bothered which) and thats it,with some rock as decor..i dont want to add any other fish at all.

Is it true you must have RO to keep Turbo Snails and shrimp? I just want some other opinions.

I dont want to spend hundreds i just want a simple 2 fish set up that i look after the same as i do my freshwater tank.

However i would rather pay a bit more on a really good powerhead and lose the internal filter just to keep plug space down and keep the tank as simplistic as possible.

 

[CageUK]

I have no plans to keep corals because i really dont like them at all! I think they look weird and freak me out lmao!

I only want 2 Percs or false percs (not bothered which) and thats it,with some rock as decor..i dont want to add any other fish at all.

Is it true you must have RO to keep Turbo Snails and shrimp? I just want some other opinions.

I dont want to spend hundreds i just want a simple 2 fish set up that i look after the same as i do my freshwater tank.

However i would rather pay a bit more on a really good powerhead and lose the internal filter just to keep plug space down and keep the tank as simplistic as possible.

Fair enough, if you are not going to keep corals then it makes your requirements much simpler. Yes, dump the filter and get a good power head (or two smaller ones to get good overall flow) and keep your existing lighting.

I would still encourage you to go for RO water though. Not strictly necessary for fish and the kind of inverts you are looking at but MUCH preferred. It is not expensive. I used to buy my RO at my local World of water at 2.50gbp per 25ltrs (or 3.50gbp at maidenhead aquatics). For your size tank a 10% water change would take around 10ltrs so this would be sufficient for two water changes plus some plain RO for topping up. I now get my RO from a friend who has recently bought an RO unit.
In my own personal opinion it is not worth taking a chance on all the stuff they throw in the water supply for salt water livestock.

At the end of the day though, that is entirely up to you. People do use tap water and most of the time they get away with it, but it can bite you on the bum if you are unlucky!

Good luck

Cheers

 

[Crazy fishes]

People certainly have had success using dechlorinated tapwater for fish only marine aquarium. However not as much or as long lived success as is seen when RO water is used. For any type of invertebrate, be it snail, shrimp or coral, RO water is really the 'Gold standard' and tapwater is not suitable. The nitrate, phosphate and other impurities are too high to realistically keep under check. The possible exception would be if you had a refugium/sump that could suck up that excess nutrient, but I believe you want to keep it cheap and simple. I could give a number of ways in which you could do a marine aquarium but the cost would rise steeply and the complexity would follow. I think if you get you own RO unit and a water butt then you can mass produce your 'sea water' and it is the cheapest and most successful way of giving the pair of Clowns a happy and long life.

Hope this helps

Regards

 

[GShorty1981]

This thread is so helpful guys.

Ok i just been browsing and found a site that sells liverock for pretty good prices do i definitly need 10 kg? its £99 on this site i have found or £49 for 5kg.

Could you give me a link to a suggested powerhead that i can use? i really only want to use one and i assume my filters outlet would not be anywhere near powerful enough (fluval 2+)....i'm seriously on a budget right now and dont want to spend more than £150 overall on the enitre set up.

How much do Percs cost in english LFS's the ones i have visited dont tend to price there tanks up.

ALso how much do Occerlaras cost in comparison?

What price am i looking at for the Coral sand? does it need to be all coral sand or can it be mixed with cheaper normal sand?

Can i keep my 3d black polysterine background i am using on the tank or shall i go back to the rubbish old plain blue stick ons? (basically will the salt water have a reaction with the polysterine)

I'm working it out like this..

LiveRock £100
Fish £20? (obviosuly after a cycle)
Coral sand ?
Power head?

 

[CageUK]

This thread is so helpful guys.

Ok i just been browsing and found a site that sells liverock for pretty good prices do i definitly need 10 kg? its £99 on this site i have found or £49 for 5kg.

Could you give me a link to a suggested powerhead that i can use? i really only want to use one and i assume my filters outlet would not be anywhere near powerful enough (fluval 2+)....i'm seriously on a budget right now and dont want to spend more than £150 overall on the enitre set up.

How much do Percs cost in english LFS's the ones i have visited dont tend to price there tanks up.

ALso how much do Occerlaras cost in comparison?

What price am i looking at for the Coral sand? does it need to be all coral sand or can it be mixed with cheaper normal sand?

Can i keep my 3d black polysterine background i am using on the tank or shall i go back to the rubbish old plain blue stick ons? (basically will the salt water have a reaction with the polysterine)

I'm working it out like this..

LiveRock £100
Fish £20? (obviosuly after a cycle)
Coral sand ?
Power head?

Weeeell, 10kg would be optimal. However if you are only having a pair of clowns and some snails and a shrimpster then you would probably get away with 5kg. Anymore fish than that though would really need more.

I've seen percs between 14 and 20gbp each or sometimes a deal for a pair. Don't know about the comparative prics of the Ocs. I once picked up a clown for 7 quid...lucky day I guess.

Have a look here for sand prices, but don't use bog standard sand (builders or play sand) as it can contain silicates which can give you all sorts of problems.
http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...ands-c-398.html

I couldn't say about the polystyrene. Haven't a clue as to wether it would react to the salt water but gut feeling says it would be ok. Would need to be thoroughly cleaned though.

Same site for powerhead prices.

http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...r-c-27_342.html

Prices will all depend where you buy them of course and can vary greatly...I would just say research to get the best deal.

Cheers

 

[GShorty1981]

Cheers fella,the Polysterine back is one of those 3d tropical tank backgrounds that companys like juwel make,it is all sealed..would prob have a little algae on it i suppose.

Talking about Power heads i just did a little search and found this dodgy looking site

http/www.everythingbutwater.co.uk/hydor-...pump-4159-p.asp

Is this the kind of power head i need? what does it attach to? does it just power itself from the mains? or does it attach to something? i have never used one before.

How big would a 5kg piece of rock be in my tank? would it be big enough to be a centerpiece or would it be tiny? i cant think how big it would be
Also i have a few pieces of white inert rock in my tank anyway..if i put them in there to..would that also become live?

I read my coral sand will become live to eventually so will that also help so 10 kg of rock is not needed? i dont mind doing a loooonggg cycle

I take it my old submersable air pump will not be needed anymore? (like a bubble bar type thing).

This is turning out pretty good right now...

Liverock £50
Coral Sand £20
Power Head £20
Fish £20

 

[CageUK]

The Koralia Nano is the one I mentioned earlier. I find it is a good power head but I also have two other hidden powerheads in the same tank to give plenty of water movement. The attachment is a magnetic base with a matching 'outer' part a little like the magnetic cleaners and attaches to the glass. I've found this to be very secure. It needs a mains supply and has a cable running from it. You may find you need two of them strategically placed though. You want to try to aim for around 20x water turnover. This allows plenty of water flow to feed the bacteria throughout the nooks and crannys of the live rock...If you are very lightly stocked you MAY get away with one, well placed.
You have to think of the guys in their natural environment. They have immense movement of sea water every second of the day and we are trying to mimic that as closely as possible.

It's difficult to say how big 5kgs of LR would be, I don't know what the density is, but looking at the 7kgs I got for my 15gal tank I would guess it would be around 7 inches cubed as a ballpark. It wouldn't be a huge centrepiece but it wouldn't be tiny!

The inert rock would be fine as long as it is truly inert. Wether it will be much use as a future live rock depends on it's density. Live rock is very porous and has a huge surface area for bacteria to develop. In exactly the same way as the filter noodles or equivalent in FW setups.
Any static object in your marine aquarium will eventually become live to an extent dependent on above ie if it has a surface area, and if it has good water flow over it it can develop bacteria. Sand will become live but that is taken into account when calculating live rock requirements so it's not a substitute for the extra live rock, it is as well as it!

As said previously though, for the sort of stocking you are looking at, 5kgs should be sufficient but be prepared to add to it if you decide to stock heavier!

Wether you use your air pump is a personal choice. You can use it for decoration if you wish (after cleaning of course) but it is not necessary. I do use a hidden airstone though because it can help to raise and stabilise your PH.

Cheers

 

[GShorty1981]

Wicked! ok one last question how much coral sand shall i use weight wise?

Other than that i think you have answered everything i need your a legend

 

[CageUK]

Glad I can be of help

Working out the sand is a toughie. It depends on how deep you want the sand bed, how you lay out the rock etc. I would guess around 10lb but this is just a guess. It should give you enough to decide how deep the bed is to be. I'm not sure how deep you have your FW beds, I tend to go with a 3+ depth but only around an inch or so in my marines. You don't need to plant stuff in it and it just gathers detritus if it is too deep.

What you should also do is lay something on the glass floor of the tank to support the rock. I used some plastic mesh, but anything that acts as a barrier to protect the glass is fine. Put the rock in first, then lay the sand around it. Some of your critters like to bury in the sand and there is a possibility they can undermine the rock if they are just laid on top of the sand causing a rock slide and possible damage to the glass...potentially catastrophic! Worst case scenario but worth considering.

Cheers

 

[GShorty1981]

This is working out pretty good

I can sell my current fish stock/Inverts/Plants etc for around £30 to mates..

So it works out like this..

Coral Sand £7
Live Rock £50
Power Head £25
Salt £10
Hydrometer £12

=£104

-£30 for current stock sales (no rush) = £74!!!!!

Then i'll get the fish when its ready

It also leaves me some spare money to play with other stuff such as maybe more rock rubble or another power head.

 

[GShorty1981]

Just been to the LFS and bought..

5kg of ocean rock,live sand,coral sand,hydrometer and salt so will start my cycle as soon as i got rid of my trops..

Question? Do i need to dechlorynate the original tap water i put in the tank for the first time? obviously i wont put the live sand in with straight tap water..

I'm going to use RO for every water change thereafter.

Do i need to do a water change while there is no fish in there?

 

[CageUK]

Hi Glen, sounds like you are motoring on.

Is the rock wet? has it started curing? if so how do you plan to keep it going while you move your other guys?

Re: the tap water. It really depends why the tap water is going in. If it's just to clean the tank then no. If you are starting your cycle with it then for the sake of a small amount of de-chlorinator then it's not worth chancing it, it may screw up your cycling otherwise. If the water is just to get the mix and will be standing around for a few days then you'll probably be ok but again for the amount in question, why not do it anyway.

Good decision re: the RO.

There is no point in doing a water change until your tank has cycled it would just slow the process down. The end of the cycling process will see your ammonia and nitrite disappear but you'll have a large amount of nitrate. The recommendation is a 40% change to bring the level down but obviously it will depend on the level you have. If you have little die-off and only a small amount of nitrate then water change accordingly. Then you can add your cuc to take care of the inevitable diatoms and algae blooms. Then after a few days/week the fish can be added, these will ensure the tank stays cycled.

Hope you post some piccies once you are up and running!

Cheers