Think My Betta Is Dying

[jonnyuk]

i bought my betta about a week ago and introduced into a 3 month old tank. he looked fine for until last night when i thought he was abit sluggish (he still had some food though).

i have come home tonight to find him on the bottom not moving. he is breathing abit heavy, he looks alittle darker than normal.
he has got twisted fins which i noticed a couple of days ago. i posted in the betta section, general consesus was to keep an eye on him. i have had an indian almond leave in since i got him.

1. Water parameters. (ammonia = 0, nitrate =5, nitrite =0, PH 7.5, temp =25, Hardness etc can't test for that), done with nutrafin mini master test kit
2. bottom not moving. he is breathing abit heavy, he looks alittle darker, twisted fins that don't look very healthy now
3. water change, once a week 20%
4. indian almond leave
5. 4 ember tetra's, 4 galaxy rasbora, 6 pygmy corries, loads of cherry shrimp, MTS
6. 40ltr, 16" tall
7. added two corries from the same place i've had all my fish except the rasbora

i would add my tank is really heavily planted, over 70%. i also have a fluval u2 filter.

i feel bad because i can't get out unitl tomorrow now to get anything, have a little one who is in bed and the wife is out.
all i have is table salt, can i use this?

well as i speak he is now bloody swimmning about, still don't think he is 100% though

 

[Bettawhisperer]

NO DO NOT use table salt. Aquarium salt is what you want to use. The twisted fin is from fin rot. Bettas are very prone to it. You may want to do more wc like twice a week. How old is the fish? How long have you had him? Many times the Bettas sold in the LFS are Bettas that the Asian breeds have used for breeding and are old or they don't keep them because there color isn't what they want for showing the fish. In other words all Bettas sold in LFS are Asian rejects. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them for just a pet but be aware that it could be an old fish. Also you say your tank is heavely planted. Is there still enough room for him to get to the top for air. Bettas are Labyrinth breathers which means they breath air from the top. He may not be getting enough air. Hope this helps.

 

[jonnyuk]

i decided to feed the fish again, my betta has now eaten something, not much but a few flakes. he has now retired to the bottom again after 5 mins of activity.

just to add, nothing with the rest of fish at all, well from what you can see.

maybe i'm worrying over nothing

 

[jonnyuk]

thanks for the info Bettawhisperer. to answer your questions, i have had him 1 week, the lfs had him for 1 week prior in quarantine, not sure how old he is, plenty of room on the surface.

when i first got him his fins where perfect, its since he went into my tank that his fins look terrible.

he is still alive this morning but just resting on the bottom, comes up for air now and again but quickly sits back on the bottom in the plants and stays there.

is there a general rule in terms of how long to give him a salt bath (can't add salt to my tank as i have corries) so he will need to go in a bowl or something, also whats the ratio of salt to water etc.

at least i can cling to the hope he will pull through because he has not died yet.

 

[jonnyuk]

well last night my betta went into his own 8ltr tank. he looked allot better after about 5 mins in it, swimming about etc. at this point i put some live food in the tank and he spent the next 20 mins hunting it down and eating the lot. i thought at this point i'd leave him alone without any meds as he was eating.

this morning he is on the bottom again looking very ill, he swims to the surface for air before going back down to the bottom. i've decided to med the tank with Waterlife Protozin on advice of my lfs, i did have salt in my hand but they suggested this. they mentioned other things that could be causing problems, all of which i knew already so from that i thought you know what your talking about.

hope he perks up abit now.

 

[Athena]

Hmm, can't imagine why they recommended Protozin unless they think it's a fungal disease.

If it's fin rot he's got then Myxazin would have been a better option and that is also anti-bacterial.

Melafix is also great at healing fins.

I think it's good you put him in a tank on his own - bettas don't normally fare too well with tankmates, and tetras can be fin-nippers. Your betta probably went downhill due to stress. Hopefully, now he's on his own he will be fine once the fin rot issue has been dealt with.

Also, be sure you're not overfeeding him. You mentioned putting live food in there and he was obviously energetic at that point, hunting down the food - but how much did you put in there? Did he eat it all? Maybe he overdid it! This can cause them to sit on the bottom a bit listless and can even get constipation. A tiny bit of shelled pea, squashed, usually sorts that out.

Regards, Athena

 

[jonnyuk]

hi Athena, i fed him 10 daphina (how ever you spell it), he eat the lot!

i got home tonight and he looked dead, from hs head back wards, the top of him is really dark, lost all his colour.

i have tonight done a 90% water change, put the temp upto 27 and gave him a salt path in a jug. i have also added salt to his tank water. maybe i'll leave the meds since i've done a 90% there won't be much left in there.

i have noticed since his salt bath his gills on the outside are starting to go white. saying that he has been slowly swimming about since putting him back in.

i just can't work him out. he looks about dead one minute then if you feed him he is ok etc

thanks for your help

jonathan

 

[Athena]

Hi - are you able to post any photos? That would help us identify the problem easier.

From the sound of it I still think he's got a bacterial and/or fungal disease caused from being in that first over-crowded tank. But pics would help a lot.

Athena

 

[jonnyuk]

last night i added more Protozin to teh tank, i thought i've started the meds so might as well carry on. as you can see from the pics he just sits on the thermometer, occasionally going for a small swim. hope these pics shed some light on the matter.

cheers
Jonathan

 

[Athena]

Hello again! Thanks for posting the pics. Well, the first thing I noticed were his gills looking rather patchy and, unless I'm imagining it, there are a few white spots on the gills (noticed in 2nd pic down). Has he lost a few scales on the gills?

Hmmm, not sure but could be gill flukes. Have you seen him rubbing or flicking against tank objects (possibly not now but in the onset)? Any mucous/slime on his gills?

His fins don't look as bad as I'd imagined - he's not clamping them tight, anyway.

What colour was his body when you first got him? He does look rather grey. Fish can lose their colour when they are feeling stressed.

Ok, so when you've finished the course of Protozin that you're doing, I'd do a good water change and light gravel vac and leave it a day or so to monitor him - if there is still no improvement then you could try treating for gill flukes (e.g Sterazin).

When you moved him into his own tank did you put the almond leaf in with him, too? Strange isn't it...they say that using Indian Almond Leaves helps keep them healthy! I've never used them so have no experience of how well they work or not.

Are there other plants in his tank? Shady places for him to rest?

Also, how noisy is the filter in there? Is the water output quite strong, gushing water out quickly causing lots of turbulance/noise?

In the meantime, re feeding him, some people recommend no feeding at all until symptoms of flukes disappear.

Athena

 

[jonnyuk]

hi Athena, thanks for the reply, your advice is worth its weight in gold.

I have noticed one scale missing from his body but not from his gills, his general colour has gone. he is a post of when i first got him,the change is huge. i can't see any slime/muscous from his gills, his breathing is very laboured. the funny thing is he will all of a sudden decide to go for a swim, granted 30 seconds then go back and rest. my wife keeps telling me to put him out pain but i think he will pull through (well hope anyway).

here is a pic of him and his tank.

[url="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/340916-finally-got-my-betta"/url]

the one thing i have learned now is they should not have sharp edges in the tank, my tank was full of them!

he had an almond leave in the original from when i first put him in. i put a new almond leave in his current tank, i thought they kept them healthy as well, guess not.

i have no plants in his tank yet, getting some silk tonight but there is a large piece of bog wood on the very fine gravel with plenty of places to hide in (well arches etc).

The filter is hang on filter so the water is like a very gentle water fall, there is no current as such in the tank.

 

[FishyWishie]

When my Betta got twisted fins and mild fin rot I moved him to his own 25L tank dosed the tank with Aquarium Salts and treated the water with Melafix and within 4/5 days he was back to his usual self. I can't recommend Aquarium salts enough tbh.

 

[Athena]

Hiya! Oh gosh, I just had a look at the link to the photos of when you first got him...looks like a completely different betta!! Wow, I see what you mean now - he was a real beauty. Now I can understand how poorly he looks. Dramatic change eh?

Well, you never know, he might just get his glorious colours and finnage back one day.

Fishywishie is right in that Melafix is a great healer and gentle on them (providing you don't overdose - in fact I always give slightly under the recommended dose).

I'm trying to fathom out what could cause a healthy, beautiful fish like that to go downhill so quickly. If none of the other fish in the community tank are sick (where he was before), we can only assume that your betta got stressed and a bit depressed in there, possibly not liking having other tankmates, or maybe he was being fin-nipped a bit at night? Whatever reason, it was enough to lower his immune system and become a target for disease.

And, of course, now that he's poorly he will still be feeling depressed and, as with us when we are "down", he's feeling quite listless and moping about a lot. Ha! I should've been a fish psychologist LOL

Regards - Athena

 

[FishyWishie]

Don't underestimate what Aquarium salts can do either there fairly cheap and very effective.

 

[jonnyuk]

hi Athena, i'm gutted how ill he has got, as you say he was stunning. i'll finish my current med, although this will be another 5 days, then its says don't use any other meds for a week, that will be near on two weeks before i can use melafix. would you suggest i stop my current med, give it a few days. do a 100% water change and start on the Melafix?

i watched him like a hawk and did not see any fin nipping, if anything the other fish ran a mile when they saw him. like you say though could of been happening at night?

i was going to start another thread in the betta section about fish just not liking a new home for what ever reason, to much plant live, to much space etc, suppose they are just like us, some times you settle in a new place, other times you won't.

just noticed fishywishie, your buying my filter . thanks for your input to.

thanks
Jonathan