stang1
A smile costs nothing :)
I didn't realise they were so tiny! 
Think I'm Finally Getting My Hastatus!
- Thread starter Miss Wiggle
- Start date
Bozza
Fish Addict
Great pics. Hope they live happy and full lives. I bet they love their new home!
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
they're absolutely minute, completely dwarfed by my amano shrimp 
all seem to be alive and well this morning so touch wood they'll be ok.
i was very impressed with trimar's shipping, although i had to laugh when the postie turned up with a box roughly 2'x2'x1' for 6 fish less than an " long each.
was a big cardboard box, with a polybox in it, extra thick plastic bags with the fish in and other bags containing water to fill it up all wrapped up in newspaper. would have been sent out the day before although i can't say what time, sent to arrive before 12 the next day
all seem to be alive and well this morning so touch wood they'll be ok.
i was very impressed with trimar's shipping, although i had to laugh when the postie turned up with a box roughly 2'x2'x1' for 6 fish less than an " long each.
was a big cardboard box, with a polybox in it, extra thick plastic bags with the fish in and other bags containing water to fill it up all wrapped up in newspaper. would have been sent out the day before although i can't say what time, sent to arrive before 12 the next day
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
Awwww. They are so tiny and wittle.
I'm jealous. I want my pygmies now.
llj
awwww see i hadn't even thought about babies until then.............
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
sadly i've lost three of them over the weekend 
they must have just not adjusted properly cos they were so small or something. stats are ph 7.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0 (yes really nitrate 0 or at least that's the closest reading i can get on my test kit, and yes the tank is cycled, our tap water has 0 nitrate tank's quite well planted and lightly stocked with low waste producers and juvenile fish, nitrate never gets above 5)
really sad to loose three, i expected to loose maybe one of two. just got a little trio of them left now, if i see anymore around i'll pick up a couple more, they seem fairly happy as a trio for now though.
they must have just not adjusted properly cos they were so small or something. stats are ph 7.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0 (yes really nitrate 0 or at least that's the closest reading i can get on my test kit, and yes the tank is cycled, our tap water has 0 nitrate tank's quite well planted and lightly stocked with low waste producers and juvenile fish, nitrate never gets above 5)
really sad to loose three, i expected to loose maybe one of two. just got a little trio of them left now, if i see anymore around i'll pick up a couple more, they seem fairly happy as a trio for now though.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
I'm sorry. It sucks when new fish fail to thrive.
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
thanks, really sad for the poor little buggers, one was really small and i half expected to loose him but i was surprised by the others, they were absolutely fine when i went to bed and dead in the morning
without sounding obnoxious i don't think i've done anything wrong, they were carefully drip acclimitised, been sensibly fed, no aggressive tankmates or anything. certainly nothing to kill them so suddenly.
been a while since i've lost any fish now.
without sounding obnoxious i don't think i've done anything wrong, they were carefully drip acclimitised, been sensibly fed, no aggressive tankmates or anything. certainly nothing to kill them so suddenly.
been a while since i've lost any fish now.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
I don't doubt you at all.
I have fish shipped often. I usually don't lose any.
But sometimes it is a wash. I don't do anything that different. I love when the shipper blames me for leaking bags and dead fish.
Although I have started using a different acclimation: float the unoppened bag to equalize temps. Open bag and immediately move them into the tank. No drip no long delays in old ammonia contaminated water. Apparently opening the bag changes the ph which raises the ammonia %. I used it twice now. It works great and the fish are much less stressed.
Anyway, the little pygmys can be a little like otos.
I have fish shipped often. I usually don't lose any.
But sometimes it is a wash. I don't do anything that different. I love when the shipper blames me for leaking bags and dead fish.
Although I have started using a different acclimation: float the unoppened bag to equalize temps. Open bag and immediately move them into the tank. No drip no long delays in old ammonia contaminated water. Apparently opening the bag changes the ph which raises the ammonia %. I used it twice now. It works great and the fish are much less stressed.
Anyway, the little pygmys can be a little like otos.
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
hmmm not sure how opening the bag would increase the pH (this will be my research project for today i think) however it is quite right that ammonia is more toxic in higher pH water.
they were in transit less than 24hrs and very well packaged, 3 fish to a bag and the bags held maybe 2 us gallons of water. i wouldn't expect 3 fish about 1cm long to produce enough ammonia to foul up the water seriously in that time.
who knows though, due to their size i did expect some sensitivity at acclimitisation.
think i'm gonna e-mail trimar to see what they say.
they were in transit less than 24hrs and very well packaged, 3 fish to a bag and the bags held maybe 2 us gallons of water. i wouldn't expect 3 fish about 1cm long to produce enough ammonia to foul up the water seriously in that time.
who knows though, due to their size i did expect some sensitivity at acclimitisation.
think i'm gonna e-mail trimar to see what they say.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
Here is a copy and paste of the article on acclimating:
Here is the portion of the order acknowledgment from CorysRUs regarding acclimating new fish:
"For those who have ordered livestock please read the following:
We do not feed any of our fish we are shipping the day before or day of shipping. This helps to ensure that they will not have an issue and pollute their shipping water. We also use conditioned water and we add Ship Right which is a complete water conditioner and fish calmer for long distance shipping of tropical fish. Also guards against fish diseases, while the calming additive reduces stress and fighting among fish. Fish arrive in the highest quality and best overall health.
All of our fish are fed live blackworms daily in the AM and then one of the following in the PM: frozen tubifex, frozen dapnhia, frozen spirulina enhanced brine shrimp, freeze dried shrimp powder, freeze dried salmon roe, freeze dried earthworms, high quality flake food pre-moistened in water, Hikari Tropical Sinking Wafers which are specifically developed for Corydoras catfish and other bottom feeders after extensive research into their nutritional requirements and eating habits, and most often we use Boyd's Vita Diet 1.0mm crumble which is the only fish food fortified with Vita-chem. For pygmy corydoras we also feed Hikari Micro Wafers. We go to great lengths being diverse in our feedings not only to benefit the fish but also their future owners.
We have a lot of people write us and tell us their new arrivals will not eat. Don't fret, they can survive up to 7 days without eating. Remember, they are having to get accustomed to new surroundings, new water chemistry, new feeding schedule and all that stresses them out. Eventually they will usually come around and decide they have to eat what they are fed or go hungry.
When you receive the box open it as soon as possible in a dim lit room. The fish have been in a enclosed dark area for all the time they have been traveling sudden light causes unneeded stress. Allow the bags to float for 10 to 20 minutes to allow temperatures to slowly equalize (longer if necessary). Open the fish bags only when you are ready to immediately put them into your aquarium. DO NOT put any water from your aquariums into the bags or vice-versa! Avoid netting as much as possible. Gently pour off most of the water from the bag through a net. Then release the fish from the bag directly into the aquarium. Another good method uses a plastic container with sieve holes in the bottom (a smooth plastic spaghetti strainer with small holes works great). Gently scoop or release the fish into the container, drain the water and place the fish immediately into the aquarium. Large specimens can often be simply hand placed into the aquarium. If these methods are not applicable, place a large net over the top of a clean container with enough water to cover approximately a third of the bottom of the net. Open the bag and carefully pour some of the fish into the net and immediately place them directly into the aquarium. Try to avoid a net full of fish as they will ball up in the net, and the ones underneath can be damaged from compression and friction. Remember that water from the bag may react with the water from the aquarium, and could be very harmful. Never mix bag and aquarium water! That evening feed a very small meal and over the next few days slowly up the feed.
Sometimes during shipping, fish lie at the bottom of the bag and appear dead. "Playing opossum" is a common animal stress behavior. Carbon dioxide also acts to tranquilize the fish. Even if the fish look like they are mostly dead, put them into an aquarium as outlined above. Leave the aquarium lights off to further reduce stress, and leave them alone. You will be amazed how clean water and stress reduction help !
Like other animals, fish produce carbon dioxide as they breathe. When carbon dioxide is dissolved in water, an acid is formed, lowering the pH of the water just like in a carbonated beverage. Fish also produce ammonia, which can be very damaging. Ammonia is present in water as NH3 or as NH4+, or as a combination of these forms. The toxic form of ammonia is NH3. The proportion of NH3 versus NH4+ is dependent on pH. The lower the pH, the lower the amount of NH3, and the greater the proportion of the less damaging NH4+. In the wild, freshwater fish naturally experience wide changes in pH.
One of the reasons fish are able to be shipped long distances in closed bags is because the pH in the shipping water drops, making the ammonia non-toxic. The carbon dioxide acts as a tranquilizer. The moment the bag is opened, and exposed to the outside air, carbon dioxide escapes, the pH of the water immediately begins to rise, and ammonia becomes deadly. Fish tissue damage will then occur very quickly. NEVER add water from a shipping bag into your aquarium, as you do not want all that harmful ammonia in your aquarium. NEVER add water from your aquarium into the shipping bag. Acclimate the temperature by floating the bag in the aquarium water, and then immediately open the bag and release the fish into the aquarium, minimizing the introduction of the bag water.
It is very normal for new arrivals not to have any color for up to 48 hours and to be scared or lethargic. Within 48-72 hours they should be colored up, however, they can still be a bit nervous of their new surroundings."
The science of it is highlighed. This is the bit that CorysRUs emails with the reciept (or whatever I got it with) for a purchase. It was an eyeopener.
I didn't mean to say yours were ammonia burned. I didn't know if you had picked them up.
ICEEGRL used this to acclimate the fish I shipped her and apparently they spawned and laid viable eggs the day she got them. She had fry 4 days later. (First spawn too. I'm a proud gramma.)
My pandas are already spawning from Bryan. The fish had color immediately and showed none of the usual stress.
Here is the portion of the order acknowledgment from CorysRUs regarding acclimating new fish:
"For those who have ordered livestock please read the following:
We do not feed any of our fish we are shipping the day before or day of shipping. This helps to ensure that they will not have an issue and pollute their shipping water. We also use conditioned water and we add Ship Right which is a complete water conditioner and fish calmer for long distance shipping of tropical fish. Also guards against fish diseases, while the calming additive reduces stress and fighting among fish. Fish arrive in the highest quality and best overall health.
All of our fish are fed live blackworms daily in the AM and then one of the following in the PM: frozen tubifex, frozen dapnhia, frozen spirulina enhanced brine shrimp, freeze dried shrimp powder, freeze dried salmon roe, freeze dried earthworms, high quality flake food pre-moistened in water, Hikari Tropical Sinking Wafers which are specifically developed for Corydoras catfish and other bottom feeders after extensive research into their nutritional requirements and eating habits, and most often we use Boyd's Vita Diet 1.0mm crumble which is the only fish food fortified with Vita-chem. For pygmy corydoras we also feed Hikari Micro Wafers. We go to great lengths being diverse in our feedings not only to benefit the fish but also their future owners.
We have a lot of people write us and tell us their new arrivals will not eat. Don't fret, they can survive up to 7 days without eating. Remember, they are having to get accustomed to new surroundings, new water chemistry, new feeding schedule and all that stresses them out. Eventually they will usually come around and decide they have to eat what they are fed or go hungry.
When you receive the box open it as soon as possible in a dim lit room. The fish have been in a enclosed dark area for all the time they have been traveling sudden light causes unneeded stress. Allow the bags to float for 10 to 20 minutes to allow temperatures to slowly equalize (longer if necessary). Open the fish bags only when you are ready to immediately put them into your aquarium. DO NOT put any water from your aquariums into the bags or vice-versa! Avoid netting as much as possible. Gently pour off most of the water from the bag through a net. Then release the fish from the bag directly into the aquarium. Another good method uses a plastic container with sieve holes in the bottom (a smooth plastic spaghetti strainer with small holes works great). Gently scoop or release the fish into the container, drain the water and place the fish immediately into the aquarium. Large specimens can often be simply hand placed into the aquarium. If these methods are not applicable, place a large net over the top of a clean container with enough water to cover approximately a third of the bottom of the net. Open the bag and carefully pour some of the fish into the net and immediately place them directly into the aquarium. Try to avoid a net full of fish as they will ball up in the net, and the ones underneath can be damaged from compression and friction. Remember that water from the bag may react with the water from the aquarium, and could be very harmful. Never mix bag and aquarium water! That evening feed a very small meal and over the next few days slowly up the feed.
Sometimes during shipping, fish lie at the bottom of the bag and appear dead. "Playing opossum" is a common animal stress behavior. Carbon dioxide also acts to tranquilize the fish. Even if the fish look like they are mostly dead, put them into an aquarium as outlined above. Leave the aquarium lights off to further reduce stress, and leave them alone. You will be amazed how clean water and stress reduction help !
Like other animals, fish produce carbon dioxide as they breathe. When carbon dioxide is dissolved in water, an acid is formed, lowering the pH of the water just like in a carbonated beverage. Fish also produce ammonia, which can be very damaging. Ammonia is present in water as NH3 or as NH4+, or as a combination of these forms. The toxic form of ammonia is NH3. The proportion of NH3 versus NH4+ is dependent on pH. The lower the pH, the lower the amount of NH3, and the greater the proportion of the less damaging NH4+. In the wild, freshwater fish naturally experience wide changes in pH.
One of the reasons fish are able to be shipped long distances in closed bags is because the pH in the shipping water drops, making the ammonia non-toxic. The carbon dioxide acts as a tranquilizer. The moment the bag is opened, and exposed to the outside air, carbon dioxide escapes, the pH of the water immediately begins to rise, and ammonia becomes deadly. Fish tissue damage will then occur very quickly. NEVER add water from a shipping bag into your aquarium, as you do not want all that harmful ammonia in your aquarium. NEVER add water from your aquarium into the shipping bag. Acclimate the temperature by floating the bag in the aquarium water, and then immediately open the bag and release the fish into the aquarium, minimizing the introduction of the bag water.
It is very normal for new arrivals not to have any color for up to 48 hours and to be scared or lethargic. Within 48-72 hours they should be colored up, however, they can still be a bit nervous of their new surroundings."
The science of it is highlighed. This is the bit that CorysRUs emails with the reciept (or whatever I got it with) for a purchase. It was an eyeopener.
I didn't mean to say yours were ammonia burned. I didn't know if you had picked them up.
ICEEGRL used this to acclimate the fish I shipped her and apparently they spawned and laid viable eggs the day she got them. She had fry 4 days later. (First spawn too. I'm a proud gramma.)
My pandas are already spawning from Bryan. The fish had color immediately and showed none of the usual stress.
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
hmmm interesting that, it certainly challenges the accepted way of acclimitising fish, i'm gonna post this on the main forum see what some more scientific bods than me think about it.
i've heard the theory that pH swings don't damage fish but I have to disagree with it, Ian's tank the pH runs at 5.7 and our tap water is 7.2 because of his substrate. first few times we didn't water changes the pH rocketed up and we lost fish. now when we do water changes we add water slowly almost like a drip acclimitisation (not quite as slow but the same theory at least) and haven't lost a fish since. just my personal experience.
i've heard the theory that pH swings don't damage fish but I have to disagree with it, Ian's tank the pH runs at 5.7 and our tap water is 7.2 because of his substrate. first few times we didn't water changes the pH rocketed up and we lost fish. now when we do water changes we add water slowly almost like a drip acclimitisation (not quite as slow but the same theory at least) and haven't lost a fish since. just my personal experience.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
I think if memory serves, as I have not reread it, Bryan says that most fish experience ph swings in the wild. That's not the same as going from 5.7 to 7.2. I imagine that Cory ph changes during the spring runoffs when they start spawning.
I certainly acclimated my dwarf pets slowly over days when I took them from coral and shell conditioned water to my tap water ph.
Yeah be glad to hear what they say.
Of course, whatever they say, I now am sold buy my own experiential evidence.
I certainly acclimated my dwarf pets slowly over days when I took them from coral and shell conditioned water to my tap water ph.
Yeah be glad to hear what they say.
Of course, whatever they say, I now am sold buy my own experiential evidence.
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