The Whole "balanced" Thing...

[Mikaila31]

The only thing with shrimp is that there wouldn't be a lot of floor space for them and it would be planted so you wouldn't really see them would you not?

nope you don't. I have lots of plants, and lots of shrimp in all my tanks. You don't see the shrimp much, but they breed and the more there are the more you will see. For me I think about 1/3 of the population is visible if you look for them.

The more plants you have the harder it is to see anything. Anyone who has tried to count a large school of tetra in a heavily planted tank knows that.

 

[hensonc4098]

It wouldn't be very heavily planted, but the bottom would be covered leaving swimming space at the top for whatever so you would be able to see fish, but unlikely shrimp...

 

[mr130gallon]

I have a 5gal paludarium(a waters edge tank) that holds ~1gal of water. Currently just cherry shrimp and snails, but sometimes endler fry live in there for a month at a time. A little native toad lives on the land side. It hasn't been setup for very long only since late summer. So far though it seems to be very balanced and self sufficient. No running filter/ water movement. There is a filter, its just never on. No water changes, I top it off using water from a nearby aquarium a few times a week. Prun plants back as they need it. Its not a complete, forever sustainable tank. Its got a couple pounds of black dirt, but no nutrients are going into it. I am removing nutrients when I cut plants back. Eventually it will "crash" in a sense. As nutrients get less and less. At some point I will need to replace the black dirt to maintain it. So far its been doing great.

ive wanted to do a paladarium for a few weeks now, do you feed the animals? or does the toad just eat the shrimp babies?

 

[dave_oddballs]

its a good idea,and i think they look pretty cool, the really small ones, but not one bit suitable for any fish at all, that would be complete cruelty. your only option for live stock is shrimps and snails, and that could still look very good.
shrimps will climb on anything, you don't necessarily need a lot of floor space.

with the paludarium, if you leave a couple of trimmings in the tank to decompose it would release nutrients back into the soil, this is how it would happen in nature, your shrimp and toad must eat things, and therefore excrete things, thus also releasing nutrients back into the tank/soil. it can work

 

[loraxchick]

it does work. diana walstad uses these systems (not in vases tho if im remembering correctly) she has written all sorts of things on the subject-a great book called "ecology of the planted aquarium" (again if memory serves).
i had one of her systems in a 6 gal. worked BRILLIANTLY until a mega ice-storm hit our area knocking out the lights and power for 5 days. algae everywhere after the power came back on, so had to abandon the method. was completely self-sufficient (minus feeding the fish) for 9 months. just an occasional top-off was all that was needed.
do a search for her stuff. very interesting/informative reading.
cheers

 

[hensonc4098]

D'ya know, the more I think about it, the more I think it would look cool with cherry shrimp in it After me dissing the idea! I could maybe use a small piece ofwood coming up with a wee bit of moss on it for them to climb on I guess, and if they breed then I could always put some of them in one of my other tanks

Hmmm...

Also, sorry if words seem to join together - my space button is quite dodgy and I keep not noticing until I've posted!

 

[dave_oddballs]

my space bar is doing that, must be contagious!!
glad your coming round to the idea of shrimp, a lot of people dismiss them at first but they would look really cool in the idea you have.
you wouldn't have to put loads of plants in, just enough to provide oxygen etc, remember if you put moss in you will have to cut it back at some point, which might be quite difficult, depending on size of the 'tank'.
also did you give snails a thought? i think something like cherry shrimps and a couple of assasin snails would look cool and pretty self sufficient!

 

[Mikaila31]

ive wanted to do a paladarium for a few weeks now, do you feed the animals? or does the toad just eat the shrimp babies?

Toad is a normal toad and prefers to stay out of the water. I feed both the toad and shrimp. Here is the build thread for that tank

 

[hensonc4098]

Lol the space bar thing is probably due to a combination of my cat lying on my laptop and my little cousins pressing all the buttons

I thought about putting an airstone in at theback where you wouldn't see it to circulate the tank and that would also help oxygenate it. I've been thinking about snails - either asassins or zebra nerites - I love the pattern on their shells Plus they don't breed in fresh water either, unlike my flamin apples!

 

[mr130gallon]

ive wanted to do a paladarium for a few weeks now, do you feed the animals? or does the toad just eat the shrimp babies?

Toad is a normal toad and prefers to stay out of the water. I feed both the toad and shrimp. Here is the build thread for that tank

wow... now nothing will stop me from doing a paludarium! i might even do my 17 gallon as one... do they need a filter if theres lots of plants in it?

 

[Mikaila31]

ive wanted to do a paladarium for a few weeks now, do you feed the animals? or does the toad just eat the shrimp babies?

Toad is a normal toad and prefers to stay out of the water. I feed both the toad and shrimp. Here is the build thread for that tank

wow... now nothing will stop me from doing a paludarium! i might even do my 17 gallon as one... do they need a filter if theres lots of plants in it?

Mine doesn't. It has a filter, but its never on. 3 cherry shrimp, a handful of ramshorn snails and 2 endler fry where the most I've ever had in the water at one time. I would try to aim for med- high lighting and you should be good.

 

[three-fingers]

This reminded me of eco-spheres. I've no idea about the viability of them, I've never looked that closely into it.

Eco-Sphere

Those look neat!

-FHM

Nah, they are really crap horrible death traps for the shrimp.

Read here: http/www.petshrimp.com/hawaiianredshrimp.php

Really for anything like this to work long-term it needs to have access to air, though they can be done, with a lot of hardy inverts like snails and the like it's kinda hard to tell if you are affecting thier health/lifespan until they just die. So while it's interesting, why not just make it with access to air?

 

[fatheadminnow]

This reminded me of eco-spheres. I've no idea about the viability of them, I've never looked that closely into it.

Eco-Sphere

Those look neat!

-FHM

Nah, they are really crap horrible death traps for the shrimp.

Read here: http/www.petshrimp.com/hawaiianredshrimp.php

Really for anything like this to work long-term it needs to have access to air, though they can be done, with a lot of hardy inverts like snails and the like it's kinda hard to tell if you are affecting thier health/lifespan until they just die. So while it's interesting, why not just make it with access to air?

No no, I would not put any live creatures in there, I would just it for plants.

-FHM

 

[mr130gallon]

ive wanted to do a paladarium for a few weeks now, do you feed the animals? or does the toad just eat the shrimp babies?

Toad is a normal toad and prefers to stay out of the water. I feed both the toad and shrimp. Here is the build thread for that tank

wow... now nothing will stop me from doing a paludarium! i might even do my 17 gallon as one... do they need a filter if theres lots of plants in it?

Mine doesn't. It has a filter, but its never on. 3 cherry shrimp, a handful of ramshorn snails and 2 endler fry where the most I've ever had in the water at one time. I would try to aim for med- high lighting and you should be good.

i thought you had it on.. or is the waterfall something else, or just not ever flowing lol

 

[K-Holed]

Nah, they are really crap horrible death traps for the shrimp.

Read here: http/www.petshrimp.com/hawaiianredshrimp.php

Really for anything like this to work long-term it needs to have access to air, though they can be done, with a lot of hardy inverts like snails and the like it's kinda hard to tell if you are affecting thier health/lifespan until they just die. So while it's interesting, why not just make it with access to air?

I think the idea is they "make their own air", similar to the way (albeit in a simplified way) our earth does. If they gave it access to air, it would upset the balance

On a personal note, they seema little small to represent a stable micro environment and by their own admission, the larger ones tend to last longer.