The Way People Respond.

[Fella]

Sometimes I have concerns about the manner in which some people respond to posts. They are a bit abrupt with reply's they post especially to newbies.
Loadsa people come on here for advice on how to make things better for their fish and they get abrupt answers that are basically slating them.
Me a few times have read a newbies post and thought if I had had a reply like then I wouldn't dare come back on and ask another question.
I know everybody on here is really helpful but people can't see the smile on our faces when we are answering a question.
xxxx

On a similar note though with regards to respecting other people who use the forum, this is a family orientated forum, and I'm not sure I'd want my children to read the comment in your signature!

And that's not meant in a confrontational sense, just a heads up.

 

[Tolak]

It would be good if members could 'rate' another members post. Ranking or ability is then based on this and post count.

As Lateral Line stated, this sounds good on paper, but in actual practice it ends up being a sort of popularity contest, with cliques that give each other's posts top ratings.

What does work is searching a member's previous posts, reading the sort of answers or advice they give, and rating them yourself. If the member has a high post count, with short one sentence posts that are mainly the I agree, nice pic, me too sort of posts you can see what that high post count represents. Conversely, if the member's posts are multiple paragraph answers, with links to information, it stands to reason that each number in that post count represents a whole lot more than the number would lead you to believe.

 

[Bignose]

My main worry is in the emergency/diesease section (I believe a lot of fish are being unduly killed through mis-advice) where advice needs to be swift and concise, sometimes there is a lot of ill advice offered. Many a time I would personally be busting a gut to answer questions to members problems but have seen all the bunkum already offered as solutions and I back away, and I feel that if I offered this information it would get lost in the mix.

If you have the time and patience, BigC, I think you have to at least try. I know how you mean, it seems like all you are doing is climbing uphill with no peak in sight, but if you don't get the correct information out there, there is no chance that it will spread. At least even if you only get a few more views and only change the mind of one person, maybe that one person will also post it, and it will spread. And at least the correct information is out there the next time someone tries to search for it. I try to take on some of these fights myself, the dormant ich myth, the stunting causes swelled organs myth, the doing waterchanges while cycling will slow down your cycle myth, the pH shock myth, etc.

I find that if you write out an entire well-documented post, that details why the common advice is wrong and post that once, you can usually copy and paste that same "canned" response changing just a few sentences to fit the context of the new post everytime it comes back up. You can look though your own old posts (the forum search is great for that) or keep text files on your computer that you can just open and cut and paste when needed.

I'd like to think that I am helping at least a little. Maybe not. *shrug* I don't know. But at the correct information is out there. I know by posting it is only a small chance of changing someone's mind, but if you don't post the correct information, it is a zero percent chance of changing someone's mind.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I try to help out on the forum, and more than often i am very happy and enthusiastic to do so, but sometimes i wish people would just help themselves more i.e. use the search engine every now and then, or at least check to see whether the thread they are about to do has been done before recently in the last couple of pages of the section they are in, or even at least attempt to place their thread in the right section using a bit of common sense etc.

I know this forum is here so we can do things like help each other out in the hobby and learn more about our fish so we can look after them etc, but sometimes i feel people "abuse" the forum by taking advantage of other people's kindness to help them out i.e. i've seen a fair amount of people recently asking for help on the forum on various matters (which is all good and well) but quite literally in no way do they ever attempt to do any research for themselves unless the answers to their every question is laid on a plate in front of them etc.
This "problem" is made worse when the lazy fishkeeper in question then doesn't bother to properly read through people's helpful posts, and even completely disregard them and their info altogether.
This gets even more fustrating when the person avoids important questions that the people helping them ask because they need to know more info on the persons situation.
Coupled with bad grammar/spelling the situation can become enfuriating/very fustrating and stressful for those people who are trying to help the person in question out, and they may say something out of line or simply just snap.



I've begun avoiding a lot of threads recently for these sorts of reasons...I'd like to speak up and help the person out, but i know half the time i will just end up feeling stressed and fustrated, so i end up avoiding such threads.



Of course, sometimes its the people who are trying to help out that are in the wrong. The thing is with this hobby, is that there is so much to learn about it- even if you just kept some guppys, corys and a few oto's in a 10gal, or even a few fancy goldfish in a 30gal tank, that doesn't mean that you are going to have a great deal less research on your hands to do than someone with a larger tank with many more fish, many of which are unusual etc.

Many people, when they've finished learning about all the basic stuff they need to know about their own fish and tank/s, will start to learn stuff about fish that they don't even keep and will probably never keep.
The problem with this is that experience with keeping the fish in question does help a lot, and the person in question who doesn't keep the fish they are learning stuff about may believe incorrect info that they would quickly realise was incorrect if only they kept the fish in question themselves i.e. incorrect info like "clown loaches grow very quickly and can grow to over a 1ft long", when the truth of the matter is "clown loachs can grow to over 1ft long but actually grow very slowly".

I've made a lot of mistakes in the past by believing incorrect semi-incorrect info, i don't deny that. But one thing that has taught me is, although its great to help others out, be very careful with the advice you give if you haven't thoroughly researched the matter/info yourself and are absolutely positive it is correct.
The wrong advice could make a bad situation a lot worse (like advising someone the wrong meds to treat their fish with for a particular disease/parasite etc).

I just think people should be a bit more wary when advising people to do stuff, if you are not sure about your info but still believe it may help, state that you are no certain your particular info in your post is correct or something etc.

(continued in a moment)...

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

(continued)

One thing that does annoy me though is just how some people react to other people's bad situations.

I will make a general example of what i'm talking about;

A person who is relatively new to the forum posts their current fish tank stocking because they want to know if they can happily fit any more fish for their tank, and if so, what sorts of fish are suitable etc. But the fish stocking they list that is currently in their tank turns out to be poorly chosen and innapropriate, and it is the important that the person rehome's some of their fish soon, because their tank or fish stocking is in no way suitable for it.
So lets say the person has a 15gallon tank with these fish;


2 Common pleco's
1 Tire track eel
6 Neon tetra's
2 Silver dollars
10 Swordtails


The first member of the forum to post of the thread suddenly says "OMG, you need to get rid of like every one of those fish apart from the neons and a few of the swordtails, you should definately get rid of these fish straight away because it is really Cruel to be keeping them like that, common plecos will grow up to like 3ft long!".

The problems i see with this sort of post are;

a. The person gives no reasons or proper information as to why certain fish are insuitable for the 15gallon tank.

b. They say stuff like the word "cruel"- now i personally believe it is best to leave the word "cruel" out of such threads, all it does half the time is make the person feel insulted (the thread owner often thinks/interperates the comments as "hey that person's saying i'm keeping my fish in cruel conditions, which must make me a cruel/nasty person- which is totally wrong, all i did is followed the petshops advice, and that doesn't make me a bad person etc).
Lets leave all the cruelty and animal rights stuff out of such threads, the thread owner didn't join the forum to be morally judged and looked down upon by other members of the forum acting in a patronising way (and the chances are, those members throwing about the cruelty judgements probably made similar mistakes themselves when they first started out in the hobby). The best thing to do is simply arm the person with proper knowledge/info, when they see what exactly they've done wrong, they'll make the moral descisions for themselves (which in the vast majority of cases, when the person realises what exactly they are doing wrong, they make an effort to sort the situation out for the better).

c. The person exagerates information, like "common pleco's grow to like 3ft long!"- i realise why the person is exagerating info like this, they want to shock the person into thinking they've got a fish on their hands thats going to grow into a ginormous monster which is never ever going to fit in the tank, so the owner gets shocked into getting rid of the fish imediately.
But although the common pleco could grow to over 18inches long, its never going to grow to 3ft long.
People exagerating information is not a good thing in the hobby, because it puts people off keeping certain fish (which they would otherwise keep and be good at keeping) or encourages people to keep certain fish (which are unsuitable for the owners tanks and abilities) because they've heard exagerated facts or just plain downright wrong information.


I know everyone wants to be heard on this forum, everyone here has a voice and everyone wants to be noticed an accepted...But you're only really going to earn respect and be noticed if you make an effort to help yourself and to help others, to act in a mature manner, to keep your cool, to be open/receptive to new information and idea's, and to treat other people in a manner which you yourself would like to be treated in (and if you are self-hating, at least treat others in a respectful manner), and to acknowledge your own mistakes and understand that other people make them too etc.
At least, this the advice which i try to follow- i know i'm not perfect, but i'm always trying to improve myself and try to uphold my own standards (nothing worse than being a hypocrit )- i've learnt so much here since i first joined this forum, and not just about fishkeeping .

 

[chaos557]

Maybe the status names should be reconsidered.
Instead of newbie and fish addict/fanatic, they are misleading, especially to people who are trully new to this hobby. They may think this guy is experience because his status says he is a fish fanatic, or leader of the fishes..so i should go with his advice over the newbies advice, who may be very well giving correct advice while the fish fanatics advice is a little off
That way people don't have statuses that sound like they refer to the persons experience with fish, rather then the persons experience with the forum.

 

[dwarfgourami]

I have to say I find the member's post function one of the most useful on the forum; it takes two minutes to check out if someone has a past history of purveying reliable well regarded information or the opposite.

I do agree with Tokis about using exaggeration and emotional language. And the observations about correct semi incorrect information were certainly acute. Perhaps the best thing one can do is to preface one's advice with a little background, such as "this ended in disaster for me" or "I have kept and bred these fish for 60 years' or 'I have never kept these fish myself but have had plenty of opportunity to observe them at work/at my friends' house etc" or "I have not kept this particular species, but have kept/researched this group of fish" or "I have gathered from more experienced forum members that x might happen (e.g. your lemon tetras may nip your betta)".

It stands to reason that good advice can and must be given even by people who have not had experience of a certain situation- having been warned by forum members, we are not all going to go and stick a betta in with three tiger barbs in a 10 gallon or try to raise a school of balas in a Bioorb, just so we can warn others against it. There may not presently be a single person on the forum who has hands on experience of either of the above situations but that would not stop us from trying to warn someone else against them. And someone who has not kept goldfish but has read all the posts by Tokis, if a sensible person in their own right, might be better qualified to advise on goldfish care than someone like my mother-in-law who thought herself a highly successful fishkeeper because each of her goldfish lived a couple of years in their bowl. But if we are honest about where we are coming from, it will be easier to judge the quality of our advice.

 

[jennybugs]

Being a relative newbie to this forum, but not by any means to forums and life in general, am I mistaken in thinking that mere words cannot convey tone/emotion at times, true, but the good use of a smiley or two here and there can speak volumes and be more friendly? Or am I just speaking

Of course, I could have misunderstood the topic comepletely, in which case I'll shut up

 

[AJGray]

i like to think im an optimist when i read responses i think i have only taken one response badly but that was because i was in a panic about the fish purely my fault that i read it wrong

i like joining in with the topics but if they look heated i stay away i dont class my self as a not it all ill only offer help if i have had a similar probelm i kept pond fish with my dad before keeping topical fish i do have to admit i panic at the slightest thing that looks even wrong and i just put a post on here sometimes it does take a while for someone to reply and there has been a fair few people actually reda the post which does bug me

id rather ask for helpthen read the replies twice just to makesureno one is being nasty

 

[K.J.]

Being a relative newbie to this forum, but not by any means to forums and life in general, am I mistaken in thinking that mere words cannot convey tone/emotion at times, true, but the good use of a smiley or two here and there can speak volumes and be more friendly? Or am I just speaking

Of course, I could have misunderstood the topic comepletely, in which case I'll shut up

But I don't feel like putting a smiley after every sentence. Especially if I'm in a hurry. If people want my advice, they have to accept it plainly with no sugarcoating. If they feel I'm offending them, fine, don't take my advice.

 

[dthoffsett]

Excellent couple of posts there Tokis-Phoenix, I fully agree with what you've said. Remember, we were all beginners at one time.

The one personal pet peeve I'll name is, if you want someone to take you seriously and try to give you useful advise, don't post the same question in every section whether or not that section applies to the question. I know people want a lot of replies and quick answers, but that just irritates the crap out of me, if you don't know what section your question should be in, ask in one section, and one only. (And no, that was not meant to sound angry ).

 

[jennybugs]

Being a relative newbie to this forum, but not by any means to forums and life in general, am I mistaken in thinking that mere words cannot convey tone/emotion at times, true, but the good use of a smiley or two here and there can speak volumes and be more friendly? Or am I just speaking

Of course, I could have misunderstood the topic comepletely, in which case I'll shut up

But I don't feel like putting a smiley after every sentence. Especially if I'm in a hurry. If people want my advice, they have to accept it plainly with no sugarcoating. If they feel I'm offending them, fine, don't take my advice.

I wouldn't class the use of a smiley here and there as sugar coating. Each to their own I guess

 

[n3ont3tra]

First, I'd like to say that Tokis-Pheonix posted the longest post I have EVER seen!
Second, these emoticons really do help when used in the right situations, like when I say 'You're tank is pretty overstocked, you should take some fish back to the store because they will get too large. '
And third:

The one personal pet peeve I'll name is, if you want someone to take you seriously and try to give you useful advise, don't post the same question in every section whether or not that section applies to the question. I know people want a lot of replies and quick answers, but that just irritates the crap out of me, if you don't know what section your question should be in, ask in one section, and one only. (And no, that was not meant to sound angry ).

This bugs me SO much in the marine section. There's five forums there:
Marine and Reef Chit Chat
Saltwater Invertebrates & Corals
Saltwater Fish
Saltwater Hardware
Nano Reefs

And people always ask about specific fish or inverts in the Chit Chat or Hardware section. It's one thing if you're new to the forum, but if you're just doing it to get more posts, it makes no sense. Most people with SW tanks on the forum will visit at least the first four forums there, so it will still be seen in the SW fish or SW invert section.

Anyway, enough of my ranting. I doubt most of the people who give the bad advice or post in the wrong section will even read this.

B)​