The Start Orf A New Begining!

[Tuppers]

Day 15: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L - 12 hour test

Well good morning to all again for the latest update!!! Just for WD here are some test results after just about 12 hours!

Temp 30C (is this too high?? I have turned it up from the original 26C)
PH 8.0 - 8.2
Ammonia 0.0 - 0.25
Nitrite 0.5 - 1.0
Nitrate 80-160 (seems to have dropped!!)
dKH Not Tested

I will try and get some 12 hour tests done when I can! Which ones are essential or do all of them need to be done?

 

[waterdrop]

Morning Tuppers,
If you want to, tweak the heater dial tiny bits to ease down to 29C, but really its fine.
Amm,NO2,pH are the 3 to do every time for trend watching.
NO3 and KH can be just occassional out of interest.

OK, one more important refinement to your reporting: Don't tell us the ml of ammonia you put in, instead, report the ppm of ammonia that it raised it to, that's the thing we as watchers want to see. That's so that we know right away that you are trying to drop to zero from 5ppm or 3ppm (depending on whether you are in 1st or 2nd phase of fishless.) Its not that you have to test it, its just that ml only means something for -your- tank and you will be used to what 2ml does, for example.

(Just can't help feeling "tweeky" with your stats and reporting because they're looking so good! )

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Schmill]

Just another slight comment off the back of waterdrop's. When you mention that you add xx ml of ammonia, it is a bit meaningless for the reason that is given, that it means something for 'your' tank, ie. the volume in your tank. But even if we knew the volume of your tank, the ammonia that each of us dose with comes in different concentrations, so 10ml of 4% ammonia will be much different to 10ml of 9% ammonia. EVEN then, I would swear that my 9.5% ammonia that I used when I setup my first tank, (and allowed me to hit 5ppm dead on each time), has actually aged in the bottle. I did the same calcs, added the right ammount for 9.5% ammonia and it didn't raise the tank to 5ppm, (actually closer to 2 I think!). This just goes to show why it's generally worth testing beforehand, adding the ammonia if needed, waiting an hour for it to circulate, then testing again to see what effect you've ACTUALLY had on the water
Love your reporting style though, it does make things nice and clear

 

[Tuppers]

Roger will sort that all out for you guys!! Its not a problem most of the time but I will def try to get this info to you!

Cheers

 

[Tuppers]

Day 15: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L - 24 hour test

Good evening to all again for the latest update!!! test completed at 19:40 hrs

Temp 30C (thermostat was at 28C so turned down to 26C to see what happens over 24 hours.)
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 80-160 (seems to have dropped!! but closer to 160)
dKH Not Tested

I added 2.5 ml 9.5% sol to the tank and one hour later i get Ammonia to be 4ppm.Hope this helps!

 

[waterdrop]

Just another slight comment off the back of waterdrop's. When you mention that you add xx ml of ammonia, it is a bit meaningless for the reason that is given, that it means something for 'your' tank, ie. the volume in your tank. But even if we knew the volume of your tank, the ammonia that each of us dose with comes in different concentrations, so 10ml of 4% ammonia will be much different to 10ml of 9% ammonia. EVEN then, I would swear that my 9.5% ammonia that I used when I setup my first tank, (and allowed me to hit 5ppm dead on each time), has actually aged in the bottle. I did the same calcs, added the right ammount for 9.5% ammonia and it didn't raise the tank to 5ppm, (actually closer to 2 I think!). This just goes to show why it's generally worth testing beforehand, adding the ammonia if needed, waiting an hour for it to circulate, then testing again to see what effect you've ACTUALLY had on the water
Love your reporting style though, it does make things nice and clear

Schmill, this is an excellent observation and comment! Ammonia is really a gas and what we get in our "household ammonia" bottles is aqueous ammonia, meaning ammonia dissolved in water at a certain concentration. It stands to reason that both ammonia and water molecules may evaporate out of our bottled solution and be released into the air when we open the bottle... and in varying amounts. So the concentration of what's in the bottle may not stay the same over time! Which means that you've successfully pointed out a -third- reason that only the "afterwards test" is final (besides the tank volume and the differing concentrations that come in different household ammonia bottles.) Nice work! A good thing for us to keep in mind.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[rabbut]

AH, looks like it's cycled, or at least very close to. Again, I'd say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Once ammonia AND nitrite drop to 0 in 12 hours, do a large, 90% waterchange, re-add the baking powder/soda to the tank and do the week proving and then it's fish time. I'd leave the waterchange though untill the ammonia and nitrite are dropping consistantly

The week proving is where you dose ammonia in the morning/evening as before and test at the 12hour mark to ensure it's all gone. This ensures that you are less likely to get an ammonia/nitrite spike in the first week of getting fish

All the best
Rabbut

 

[waterdrop]

No, I think that Day 15 post he just put up there was -24- hours after he added ammonia, not 12. I think he's dropping ammonia to zero in just about right at 12 hours but I'm not sure that's happening with the nitrite(NO2) yet, right Tuppers? Since we're about at a weekend I'd say its about time, though, for that 90% water change which should get a lot of the nitrates(NO3) out of there and clean the gravel up as much as possible.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tuppers]

Hi guys sorry didnt post for yesterdays results been busy!! Seem to have hit a problem!!

Day 15 & 16: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L - 24 hour test

Yesterday tested @ 19:30 then 2.5 ml added after tests

Temp 30C (thermostat was at 26C no change so did a partial water change 20% and it came down within a few minutes waiting for it to stabalise then amend thermostat accordingly)
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 80-160
dKH Not Tested

today tested @ 19:00 then 2.5 ml added after tests

Temp 26C (thermostat bumped to 28-29C)
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.50
Nitrate 80-160
dKH Not Tested

I did add soem Java moss yesterday wondering if that brought any goodies with it! i.e. nitrites and ammonia! I think 90% water change tomorrow will help now!(I HOPE!!!!)

Worried about this increase in Nitrites! all seemed to be going well! they did def get to 0.0! So I am wondering what I did wrong! I thnk I will test my water to check the stats of it with the API Kit! I guess we will have to plod along!

 

[rabbut]

Waterchange time, nitrate has got high enough to stop the NOB growth.

 

[Tuppers]

Roger dodger!! If I water change tomorrow say at 10:00hrs do I leave adding any ammonia till I normally add it or straight away?

 

[Schmill]

Waterchange time, nitrate has got high enough to stop the NOB growth.

Other than the obvious, what is "NOB Growth" - lol
Is it the Nitrite converting bacteria?

 

[waterdrop]

Waterchange time, nitrate has got high enough to stop the NOB growth.

Other than the obvious, what is "NOB Growth" - lol
Is it the Nitrite converting bacteria?

Yes, correct, its stands for Nitrogen Oxidizing Bacteria and is often used as a shorthand in scientific literature. I coined the term N-Bacs that we sometimes use here because some of UK members had a bit of a problem with other connotations of the acronym.

Tuppers, you try to pick a standard time when you are usually going to be at home to add the ammonia. Then that becomes your 24 hour mark. If ammonia drops to zero in less than that then you wait until you are back at that mark to add your ammonia.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Schmill]

Not attempting a hijack here, but at what level are nitrates considered high enough to stop the bacteria growth?

 

[rabbut]

Whenever you see a nitrite processing time drop off It is usual of the nitrate to be off the chart high by that point This is why I rarely waterchange during my fishless cycles I find waterchages before the point at which the conversion slows down, can often mess with a cycling filter, so I try to avoid waterchanges untill they are needed

HTH
Rabbut