The instinct of fish keeping

[AbbeysDad]

Although we may instinctively want to care and nurture our children and pets, there's a fair piece of learning involved.
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And as to care and nurturing, volumes have been written regarding care for animals, which wouldn't exist if 'instinct' was enough. While instinct is more a knee jerk reaction to stimulus, it's learning through study and experience that yields the appropriate knowledge for an excellent care giver and in this case, a good fishkeeper.

 

[mcordelia]

Thanks for your response @AbbeysDad - I am curious, why don't they infuse oxygen into the water? I realize that they may not do so to an appreciable extent, but to make a generalized claim that there is no gas exchange seems to be false in my opinion. Here's why I'm challenging this: by virtue of the fact that the air is pumped into the tank, the pressure of the air is larger than the pressure at the bottom of the tank (otherwise the air would never come out of the stone). Thus, the partial pressure of the oxygen inside the bubbles that are being released would be higher than the partial pressure of the oxygen at the surface of the tank (true, partial pressure of CO2 would also be higher, and N2, and any other gas for that matter). As long as the partial pressure of the oxygen inside the water of the tank was lower, thus establishing a gradient for dissolution of oxygen into the water, there is no reason gas exchange would not happen.

Now, on the other hand, if the argument you are making is that it is more efficient to aerate water via surface disruption as opposed to trying to bubble it in, then that is a different argument, and I could see the validity of that claim simply as a question of surface area. The area of water that can be agitated with a pump (and the turnover of water within the aquarium that it causes as well) intuitively leads to higher air exchange overall. However, to claim that there is no gas exchange whatsoever occurring with an airstone seems to be a false claim.

 

[itiwhetu]

The most important thing an air stone does is move water from the bottom of the tank to the top. An air stone also ripples the surface of the tank, so in effect increases the surface area of the tank.

 

[mcordelia]

I know I'm really picking at hairs here, the scientist in me just gets raised hackles when a blanket statement without sound explanation gets made

 

[itiwhetu]

I know I'm really picking at hairs here, the scientist in me just gets raised hackles when a blanket statement without sound explanation gets made

I know I'm really picking at hairs here, the scientist in me just gets raised hackles when a blanket statement without sound explanation gets made

Of course there is gas exchange as a part of this process

 

[itiwhetu]

If you can imagine a tank with no surface movement the area of the water on the surface is like a piece of glass, if you can ripple the surface with an air stone it is like a piece of corrugated iron, you have basically doubled the surface area therefore you have doubled the capacity of the tank.

 

[mcordelia]

right. and thus a powerhead allows for even more air exchange, because not only is it altering the surface dynamics, it usually has a large enough current that it causes turnover within the tank, so water with a lower partial pressure of oxygen gets pushed towards the top as well, as opposed to an air stone which would only cause surface agitation. But to claim that the bubbles themselves don't also have gas exchange is false, which was the only point of contention I had with the original article.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I am curious, why don't they infuse oxygen into the water?

As I have come to understand it, the bubble is a like sealed vessel of air. The gas exchange happens when the bubble bursts at the surface.

 

[AilyNC]

I don't know if instinct is the right word because it's experience really. The shown & tested & the knowledge accumulated. That doesn't come naturally - it I'd learned.

I look forward to gaining more anyway & not panicking at the slight change.

I think the more it grows the more I knows

 

[mcordelia]

As I have come to understand it, the bubble is a like sealed vessel of air. The gas exchange happens when the bubble bursts at the surface.

I think that kind of goes against the laws of physics/chemistry, since if I understand the phenomena correctly the partial pressures are the dominant factor in determining gas exchange in this case. I wish I could just email my chemistry professor and ask, but alas I am no longer in college and they probably have better things to do....

However, to finally put this side tangent to rest, I 100% agree with the both of you that water agitation is the main avenue for productive gas exchange, and whatever minor effect comes from the air/water interface within a gas bubble is likely not a major player in overall oxygenation, probably due to the short contact time with the water before the bubble breaks the surface.

 

[itiwhetu]

I think that kind of goes against the laws of physics/chemistry, since if I understand the phenomena correctly the partial pressures are the dominant factor in determining gas exchange in this case. I wish I could just email my chemistry professor and ask, but alas I am no longer in college and they probably have better things to do....

However, to finally put this side tangent to rest, I 100% agree with the both of you that water agitation is the main avenue for productive gas exchange, and whatever minor effect comes from the air/water interface within a gas bubble is likely not a major player in overall oxygenation, probably due to the short contact time with the water before the bubble breaks the surface.

I haven't looked it up, but from memory. Acid water will exchange gases more readily than alkaline it has something to do with the hydroxide ions in the water. I think.

 

[itiwhetu]

I have read with interest your interpretation of instinct. My feeling of instinct is when you have experience in many fields and a problem arises that doesn't use one or two of those but uses a multitude of experiences. Therefore the explanation is not straight forward, in fish keeping we have situations thrown at us all the time that can not be explained by one experience, but we use multiple experiences to find the solution. That is instinct, and is very hard to explain.

 

[AbbeysDad]

Instinct:
an innate, typically fixed pattern of behavior in animals in response to certain stimuli.
"birds have an instinct to build nests"

 

[itiwhetu]

Instinct:
an innate, typically fixed pattern of behavior in animals in response to certain stimuli.
"birds have an instinct to build nests"

That applies for animals but we are humans, not the same thing. Our instincts are different.

 

[Colin_T]

That applies for animals but we are humans, not the same thing. Our instincts are different.

Humans are animals. The number of similarities we have to other mammals is incredible. We get the same types of cancer, we suffer the same health issues with our skeleton and muscles. We even catch the same viruses (and not just covid19). If you spend enough time around animals, you see personalities and characteristics that you see in people.

As for our instincts being different, they change depending on your lifestyle.