That Stunted Growth Comment

[Mike G]

when I was young I had a regular pleco(at the time had no idea what it was)that was given to me when it was around 3 inches kept it in a 20 gallon tank for about 10 years it never got bigger than 8 or 9 inches.

 

[ZoddyZod]

I think that we can agree that there this evidence that keeping a fish a small and and with poor water quality will stunt their growth to some extent - but the focus of this thread is the 'their internal organs keep growing' aspect of that particular argument.

to have proof of the above, someone must have conducted autopsies on presumably stunted fish and compared the relative size of the fish to the organs and then compared that data to a healthy fish that had reached its expected adult size. If this has occured, I would be very surpirsed if the person did not publish those results and therfore they should be readily available......but it seems not unless someone can argue otherwise?

 

[nurglespuss]

Agreed, there is no evidence to support organ over-growth.

 

[Baccus]

I think as well as small water volume size that can affect a fishes growth and longevity the other factor that needs to be considered is over crowding in any volume of water. I have seen the stunting affect that sheer numbers of baby bristle noses can have on each other. Until the largest young ones are moved on to new homes the smaller ones remain small and barely grow. As the weeks go by and the largest of the brood are always removed the smallest ones eventually catch up to the size ot the original large offspring. Of course becasue I have no where to permanatly house a couple of hundred adult bristle noses, I can't be sure if all of the brood end up having the same length of life (assuming that all of them get proper care with futrue owners) or if they all get to their optimum size.I have seen the same happen with guppies as well. Yes this slowing of growth could be down to hormones being released by the larger fish, but I think the over crowding also plays a part aside from reduced food oppertunities with so many mouths in the one tank.
Just to throw the info out there I ended up putting a trio of brislte noses that where already "full grown" into my 1000L pond for 12 months, the only other planned inhabitants of the pond is some rather large goldfish/ comets. These bristle noses are now much bigger than the often quoted normal size for bristle noses. The females are now closer to standard male size and the male is even bigger again. Considering the bristle noses got no special food in the pond aside from fruit, leaves and twigs falling in from the trees above, I can only guess that it was the sheer room they had available that enabled them to grow so large.

Also science has proven that as soon as anything is kept in captivity the size of the animal changes right down to the brain size (I am not saying they get dumber, the brain just starts getting configured in a new way and ends up smaller it's even happened in humans) and skull shape/ size changes along with teeth size. I saw a docco where the scientist/ biologist was comparing a wild wolves skull to a wolf breed in a zoo, a HUGE differance. The same can be seen watching lions in zoo's and then watching wild lions, the faces are very differant with the captive lions often having a face that looks more rounded with a shorter muzzle, where as the wild lions have a leaner more pointed muzzle.

 

[Bignose]

Also science has proven that as soon as anything is kept in captivity the size of the animal changes right down to the brain size (I am not saying they get dumber, the brain just starts getting configured in a new way and ends up smaller it's even happened in humans) and skull shape/ size changes along with teeth size. I saw a docco where the scientist/ biologist was comparing a wild wolves skull to a wolf breed in a zoo, a HUGE differance. The same can be seen watching lions in zoo's and then watching wild lions, the faces are very differant with the captive lions often having a face that looks more rounded with a shorter muzzle, where as the wild lions have a leaner more pointed muzzle.

Baccus,

in this section, we do ask that you cite the sources for this info. I, in particular, would really like to read more about this. Could you please cite some sources for this info so that all can look into it more if we want to?

 

[fluttermoth]

Also science has proven that as soon as anything is kept in captivity the size of the animal changes right down to the brain size (I am not saying they get dumber, the brain just starts getting configured in a new way and ends up smaller it's even happened in humans) and skull shape/ size changes along with teeth size. I saw a docco where the scientist/ biologist was comparing a wild wolves skull to a wolf breed in a zoo, a HUGE differance. The same can be seen watching lions in zoo's and then watching wild lions, the faces are very differant with the captive lions often having a face that looks more rounded with a shorter muzzle, where as the wild lions have a leaner more pointed muzzle.

Baccus,

in this section, we do ask that you cite the sources for this info. I, in particular, would really like to read more about this. Could you please cite some sources for this info so that all can look into it more if we want to?

Agreed; I'd be very interested in reading about that also.

 

[nurglespuss]

+1

 

[Baccus]

It was in a docco that I saw, sorry don't recall the name as I see a lot of documentries. Pretty sure it would have been something produced by the BBC. I will do some digging and see what I can find so I can give referance.

 

[moochy13]

heres another thing i noticed this week, from the pleco section of the site :

deformed common plec

thats pictures of a common plec thats lived in a 5G all its life. i know its not proof of internal deformities, but surely theres no ways the inside of this buckled and bent fish is normal ??

 

[SaTiVa1984]

heres another thing i noticed this week, from the pleco section of the site :

deformed common plec

thats pictures of a common plec thats lived in a 5G all its life. i know its not proof of internal deformities, but surely theres no ways the inside of this buckled and bent fish is normal ??

That is really interesting, the thing is definitely deformed, i wonder how old it is.

 

[lloyd]

Iv hve never seen a fish kept in a small tank for a long time to be defrmed like that. That could be from some injury where has hit the lid or the side of the tank. Either one big incident or a repitive injury