Tetra Safe Start And Cycling My New Tank

[afremont]

Just uploaded the results. I didn't bother testing NitrAte and Ph. I am saving on the NitrAte test as I am afraid it won't last till the end.

Ammonia is 0, redosed 7ml which is about 2.10ppm. NitrIte is purple
I did a 50/50 tap/tank water test just to make sure it's not off the scale. Based on that nitrIte is 4ppm as half tank and half tap water shows 2ppm max on the chart. Here is a pic:

It's probably a wishfull thinking, but I did a test out of curiosity during the day and it seemed the nitrIte was higher then as the purple was darker compared to now.

Yeah those ammonia eaters are hard at work. That's part of the problem, they multiply much faster than the nitrIte eaters. Then you get a nitrIte spike and that further cripples the nitrIte eaters. I'd cut back on the ammonia and do water changes until the nitrItes are under control.

 

[snazy]

Yeah, and the amount of nitrItes is more than the ammonia has ever been at any given time. So it seems quite an amount of nitrIte bacs have to establish to eat all that. Some of it must have gotten converted though as nitrIte is not off the scale and in the first days when I got nitrIte reading it was clearly going down overnight, but now it is stable 2-5ppm colour and is hard to judge. I never got nitrItes so high ever in my history of previous tanks cycling and that's my first fishless one.

I might do a water change tomorrow if it's the same result as it is getting frustrating.

 

[afremont]

Yeah, and the amount of nitrItes is more than the ammonia has ever been at any given time. So it seems quite an amount of nitrIte bacs have to establish to eat all that. Some of it must have gotten converted though as nitrIte is not off the scale and in the first days when I got nitrIte reading it was clearly going down overnight, but now it is stable 2-5ppm colour and is hard to judge. I never got nitrItes so high ever in my history of previous tanks cycling and that's my first fishless one.

I might do a water change tomorrow if it's the same result as it is getting frustrating.

Well, as I understand it you end up with the same number of nitrogen atoms so it should be a 1:1:1 ratio in "true" ppm. Hover, most tests are actually in terms of mg/l (seemingly, but not exactly, the same thing). The ratio of molecular weights of NH3,NO2 and NO3 is 16:46:62 roughly so 1mg/l of ammonia becomes nearly 3 mg/l of nitrItes and almost 4 mg/l of nitrAtes.

 

[snazy]

Thanks afremont, that was very good ratio to know.

I just did another test to see how the nitrIte is doing and I definately think it has gone down since yearlier today. The colour is definately lighter and it takes a while to turn purple. I put the pics on page one. Ammonia is about 1ppm at the moment, hope it lasts till tomorrow evening but I will resist dosing up.


I take the pictures on top of my 30G tank normally and while testing I noticed the fish at the surface which is unusual for them as when the lights are off hardly any fish can be seen. They go to their hiding places. I looked closer and saw no bubbles. Guess what, the air pump plug had come loose

 

[snazy]

Sorry for the late updat guys.
I didn't get a chance to test yesterday. I tested the day before yesterday, but just took a picture and didn't have time to update. Anyway, the nitrItes were bloody/purple dark and I lost any hope for these to go down. It's up on page1/post one.

I've been adding 2ppm ammonia every day anyhow.
Ammonia as usual is going down pretty fast, 2ppm for less than 24hrs if not 12hrs even though I resist to test or redose.

Today during the day my partner tested the water and told me ammonia was 0, nitrItes-purple, nitrAtes over 80ppm-very red colour.

So I came home today to be doing water changes for the last 3 hours
The nitrItes seem to get processed but not as fast as to go below the pure purple range, although on the chart. What a progress

After about 70% water change nitrItes are barely detectable and I redosed to 2ppm ammonia.
There were a bit of brown diatoms on the glass that came off pretty easily, no other algae yet although I sometimes leave the lights on for 10hours a day.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

It's looking more and more like a standard cycle without bacterial additives isn't it. I still think it'll be done in under four weeks though. I think you should experiment and not dose ammonia for a day to let the NOB catch up. The AOB won't suffer.

 

[snazy]

It's definately looking like a normal cycle, although that's my first fishless one.
To be honest, I am wondering what are they putting in those TSS bottles so it doesn't work for me this time No idea whatsoever what's wrong this time, but it ain't working.

After the water change, the nitrItes are very low. So if there is any true about the nitrIte bacteria liking low concentrations of nitrIte at a given time, then it catch up now hopefully.
Anyway, I hope the cycle is over soon.
I'll update tomorrow evening with the new colours.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

After the water change, the nitrItes are very low. So if there is any true about the nitrIte bacteria liking low concentrations of nitrIte at a given time, then it catch up now hopefully.

Yeah, but the NOB are inhibited by the ammonia even at 2ppm, so remove the ammonia and they multiply faster.

 

[snazy]

OK. Thanks. I'll see what colour nitrItes I am going to get tomorrow, and if it spikes again I may delay adding the ammonia for a while. What is the minimum ammonia at which the nitrItes won't get inhibited?
Maybe if I keep adding 0.25 ammonia doses 8 times a day it may work

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Maybe if I keep adding 0.25 ammonia doses 8 times a day it may work

You may laugh but if it weren't so impractical that's exactly what we should do because that emulates the production by fish more closely.

I can't remember the actual figure for ammonia inhibtion of the NOB off the top of my head but I think it starts kicking in at about 0.1ppm total ammonia (don't quote me) but only at a very low level, perhaps 5% or less.

 

[snazy]

Not laughing, I was actually serious. I may start dosing less ammonia, but more often up to the ammount of 2ppm every 24 hours.
I'll see how it goes tomorrow after todays first water changes. This 2ppm ammonia normally doesn't last at all 24hrs so the nitrItes are living with no ammonia most of the time from what I've noticed.

 

[snazy]

Tested the water this morning. It looks good so far. The nitrIte has gone down from the 0.15 yesterday to 0, although the ammonia has also gone down from 2ppm(7ml) dose 8hours ago to 0.50ppm.

I am wondering, once ammonia and nitrIte start getting converted to 0 in 12 hours time, should I be adding the 2ppm every 12 hours then, instead of 24hours? I mean, wouldn't that stretch the cycle another bit as I would be doubling the amound of ammonia for the 24hrs period and respectively put more strain on the nitrIte bacteria?

What do you normally do at this stage of the cycle?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Tested the water this morning. It looks good so far. The nitrIte has gone down from the 0.15 yesterday to 0, although the ammonia has also gone down from 2ppm(7ml) dose 8hours ago to 0.50ppm.

I am wondering, once ammonia and nitrIte start getting converted to 0 in 12 hours time, should I be adding the 2ppm every 12 hours then, instead of 24hours? I mean, wouldn't that stretch the cycle another bit as I would be doubling the amound of ammonia for the 24hrs period and respectively put more strain on the nitrIte bacteria?

What do you normally do at this stage of the cycle?

When you're dosing at single figure ppm values and expecting it to fall in 12 or 24 hours you're building a vastly oversized bacteria population for any reasonable stocking density. So I suppose the answer to your question is that it is not necessary to wait for the dose to be reduced in 12 hours instead of 24 because all it does is increase the already excessive bacteria numbers.

I personally never dose above 1ppm and once it can cope with that in 24 hours I'm done. None of this qualifying week nonsense needed because the bacteria colony is both the right type and perfectly robust.

In my opinion if you dose 2ppm this morning and both ammonia and nitrite are zero this evening then you're good to go. The constant daily dosing hides this fact from you normally and you add a week or more to the cycle unnecessarily.

 

[snazy]

It does make sense what you are saying. I mean, I started dosing 1ppm per 24hrs, but then I started dosing 1ppm every 12 hours, so with this brainless action of mine I increased the ammonia dose which I shouldn't have, and probably prolonged the cycle unnecessarily.

 

[snazy]

Not too bad after todays test.
Ammonia is 0 and nitrIte only 0.25ppm 24hours about after the ammonia was dosed to 2ppm.
It lookes like the end of the cycle is near enough

I noticed two uninvited pond snails roaming around happily in the tank